Talk:Gaston Lagaffe

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[edit] Translation

Most of the article is a varying quality translation of the French article and needs athorough copyediting. I don't know if I,llend up doing it myself or not.Circeus 01:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes it does need work, and that big chunk of character descriptions could easily (after the copyedit) go to a [[Gaston Lagaffe characters]] of its own, keeping that coverage brief in this article. MURGH disc. 01:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, There is much to write about the stylistic evolution and stuff. I'm sure I can dig some stuff at the library if I look for it, but the best scholarly resources will probably be available only in Europe. Circeus 03:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Francophone Europe, certainly, some of us others are just as much in the dark ;) Being French-savvy, have you looked at the resources available online via the current Franquin-expo? The pdf's at the dossiers page look promising, at least from my primitive French POV. MURGH disc. 14:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Et Franquin Créa La Gaffe by Numa Sadoul (Dargaud, 1986) should be a major source for this article. Plus indeed the material from the current expo (I still have to get there, shame on me),and other books about Franquin, SPirou, ... I have a few items that can be of use (French and Dutch language, e.g. part of the Rombaldi series), but not the Sadoul one or anything very recent. I'll try to add more and more sourced things, but I have many plans and to-do's, and little time... Fram 15:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I think we have that one in my municipal Library. I live in Quebec City, and we have the catalog for one exposition (I don't know if it's the same) too, but I'm still expecting that sources are easier to locate on the other side of the Atlantic. As far as external links go, lagaffemegate.free.fr is one that should stay. It has some fascinating collections of trivia that are very interesting.Circeus 16:57, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I looked the Numa Sadoul book (couldn't borrow it, as it's a reference—we have a COmic Book reference section, how awesome is that?—and I'll have to get it from another branch), and it,s going to be extremely difficult to squeeze material out of it that is not Original Research as it's... Well.. interview transcripts and such streams of thoughts.Circeus 14:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the effort. It is a reliable source to comment on what Franquin thought of his creation, his intentions, his opinions, ... If you want to quote Franquin on something, this is one of the best sources. On the other hand, for secondary opinions of Gaston Lagaffe, you indeed need other books, magazines and newspapers. But when someone else says that Demesmaeker's name is taken from Jidéhem, then it's only an educated guess; if Franquin (or Jidéhem) were to say so, and you can find that info in a book like Sadoul's, then it is reliable and interesting, but we have to make sure that we attribute it to the correct primary source (fictional example: "In the book XXX, Franquin admits that he took the name Demesmaeker from his collaborator Jidéhem, although he adds that the characters are complete opposites"). I haven' read the book in a long time, so I don't remember what kind of info is given in the interviews, but it would not be OR (that's when you are the primary source), but using a primary instead of a secondary source, which is acceptable under WP:RS: "Wikipedia articles may use primary sources, so long as they have been published by a reputable publisher, but only to make descriptive points about the topic. Any interpretive claims require secondary sources." Fram 14:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
As luck would have it I read this article the other week and thought it needed some serious editing. However, I got carried away and basically re-wrote most of the page! This was done on my computer rather than directly here, and then I chickened out of posting it because I didn't want to barge in and erase other people's work. However I see now that there is a consensus that this page needs some work and that it's largely a translation, so I think I will in fact put my stuff in, section by section perhaps so that people can comment and perhaps revert if there are problems. Source-wise, I've read Et Franquin créa la gaffe many times but sadly I don't own a copy and it's now out of print. Nor can I borrow one as I now live in the UK, so I'm going to have to rely on my memory! But I can confirm that the info about Jidéhem's dad and De Mesmaeker comes from that book and Franquin's own mouth. I also visited the Autoworld exhibition last month and that's fresh in my mind. Actually I suppose I could upload some pictures I took there, e.g. of Gaston's car. Would that be a copyright problem? The photos are mine but the exhibits obviously are not. Another thing is, I'm a little fuzzy on the concept of original research when it comes to an article about a comic book. So I'd appreciate any feedback. Thermaland 11:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Good job on the improved character descripts, they read well. Now for the sourcing ;) —I'd really think your own expo photos would be fair game, but maybe best to await word from an expert. MURGH disc.

[edit] Translation from the French

I am currently working on an English translation of the French page, while preserving what is already here. If somebody could copy edit my work, and add things that may be lacking that would be great!

--Frenchgeek 04:18, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

  • Article: fr:Gaston Lagaffe
  • Corresponding English-language article: Gaston Lagaffe
  • Worth doing because: Material to incorporate into English-language article (which is only a little more than a stub). The French-language article is a featured article. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:48, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
  • Originally Requested by: -- Jmabel | Talk 05:48, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
  • Status: Complete Frenchgeek 21:57, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • Other notes: Belgian cartoon character



[edit] The meaning of the 'R' edition

I have my doubts about the meaning of the 'R' in the old books. The french version of the article indicate that it's for "receuil" (collection). Beeing french and having read a lots of spirou issues where gaston came from, I recall that the 'R' actualy stand for 'Redaction', ie the R albums are just the collection of the jokes that were added in the spirou issues and were supposed to take place at the Spirou redaction. The latter non-R album are still supposed to take place at the Spirou redaction, but all the reference are more or less hidden (and fantasio beeing replaced). I'm not all too sure about this yet, but I'll try to confirm it.

Also, I might add that Gaston originaly appeared as a "job-less hero" arriving at spirou to find a job.

This is very weird, considering most references I have seen are to R short for "ré-édition" (republication) Circeus 19:36, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
afair, originally, at least in Dutch, the first few albums of Gaston were published in half-format (about A5) -- a regular A4-sized album 'cut in half'. The later R1 through R4 albums contained the same gags as these eight 'half-size' albums. Therefore, 'receuil' seems plausible to me. -- Bakabaka 17:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfD result

Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on December 15, 2005. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

— JIP | Talk 18:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] GASTON LAGAFFE - Miscellaneous

The name of the cop "Longtarin" means "Long Nose" in French Slang.

There is something ambigous concerning the location of all adventures in Franklin's works : sometimes you feel the action occures in Brussels or in any other place in Belgium, sometimes it may happen in Paris or elsewhere in France. For instance the cop wears a French uniform, the parking meter are French, even if you may find some clues that the present action happened in a Brussels street. This situation is usual in the works of the Belgian comic school. 193.252.105.81 17:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, as the Spirou/Robbedoes redaction was in Brussels it would probably be Brussels (Belgium is also mentioned a lot, at least in the version we have here in The Netherlands which is the same as the Flemish version) but as Franquin lived in France (at least in the later period) he'd probably take more and more thing from the French daily life. Uhro87 16:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Here's some info from a fansite believing Gaston lives in Brussels: [1] [2]. 惑乱 分からん 09:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article's evolution

I have done some extensive work on this page as per above. In the process of moving things around, I've actually removed the bit which details all Gaston's appearances in Spirou stories. In my opinion this is a slightly obsessive level of details which makes sense on the French page but not so much on the English one. If anyone disagrees however, feel free to reinstate all this into the "History" section. The "albums" section is quite bulky; perhaps someone with a finer grasp than I of Wiki-wizardry can turn it into one of those sections that is hidden until you unfold it? I should add proudly that I am doing all this stuff from work, in true Gaston style, with the Explorer window resized to a tiny corner to avoid being spotted. I like to think that Franquin would approve... Thermaland 10:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

The work situation editing seems very appropriate. I'm not crazy about the revert you did to the languages as it feels un-MOS-like heavy on the boldface and random assembled (did you paste in from an old edit?). Also, you seem to describe the #Early appearances as if it's a transcription from the French article, but it isn't. It was written here and what you removed was essentially the only sourced section of the article, but f consensus is that the level of detail is obsessive then so be it. MURGH disc. 12:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Erm, yes I probably need to read up a bit on the Style Manual, sorry! I think I just added some languages to the existing list, from the French article and imitated the existing format, but it's possible I messed it up. I'm not that desperate to delete that section to be honest; I just couldn't be bothered to incorporate it into the new shape of the article and it didn't fit anymore as it was. But I can put it back from the history; I really don't feel strongly agianst it. Let's say it's temporarily out for refurbishing...Thermaland 16:34, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough. It would need incorporation work now that the article begins with a beginning instead of the previous overwhelming character stuff. The intro isn't far off, and italics instead of bold for the most part would help. It's my opinion that there should be a mention of Jidéhem and Delporte somewhere in the lead too.. But all in all, nice work. MURGH disc. 17:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree. The spirit of the manual of style is that relevant foreign names are given in the intro. You rarely find french names in the intro of plant articles,do you? And most foreign tv series, films or books only list the original(s) titles and English ones (when one exists).Circeus 19:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Not one to judge the languages (Circeus means cut all but French and Flemish?) I just italicised them for now. More boldly, I readded a refurbished Spirou apps section, and added the date in prep for when the world come to check if it's really his 50th birthday. MURGH disc. 19:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't mind too much that they are in the intro. But they certainly shouldn't be bold.Circeus 23:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Right. Then we did agree. MURGH disc. 00:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Good work! I really should have cleaned up my own mess there, so thanks for doing it. Brussels is to have a day of free parking later this month to celebrate Gaston's 50th birthday, how cool is that? Thermaland 09:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it seems they'll do well by Franquin, the city of Brussels. The neutralized meters -or optional donations to go to charity- is a superb gesture. MURGH disc. 10:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Victim of police brutality?

The part of the article about his first appearence ends with "and then seen two frames later, bruised and presumably the victim of police brutality". I never made that connection myself (though now that you mention it there is an annoyed-looking policeman nearby). I always figured his wounds were self-inflicted. He is, after all, going past a red light on his bike, into a crowded intersection, while trying to read a newspaper and smoke, all at the same time. 81.233.52.27 18:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

You raise a valid point and maybe inferring the possibility of that from those two frames is a leap of WP:OR. I've been convinced the angry gendarme did it since I first saw it long ago, and never considered the possibility that Gaston's off-frame incident was his own fault. Murghdisc. 23:49, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I've been meaning to elaborate on my original note, but I've been putting it off. I guess there are two reasons why I assumed the wounds were self-inflicted: I didn't really notice the policeman, and - perhaps more importantly - wasn't his bike pretty badly smashed? That, to me, would suggest a traffic accident rather than a beating, but I don't have the second picture within reach at the moment. 62.181.255.64 08:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Looking again at it now you're quite right. The bike is curled in a way that makes the cop unlikely responsible. I'll remove that line and thanks for shattering a 15 year old mental warp ;) Murghdisc. 18:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested lingotable

Gaston Lagaffe 0
Brittany Gaston Beiadeg
Catalonia Sergi Grapes
Denmark Vakse Viggo
Spain Tomás el Gafe
Sweden Gaston
Turkey Şapşal Gazi
U.S.A Gomer Goof

I've seen similar solutions on other wikipedia and thought it might improve the article to lighten the intro from some of the big and not top-important "Gaston in various languages" paragraph. Not sure where it best fits in though. What do folk think about a substitution? Murghdisc. 03:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


(short version shown)

[edit] Lebrac / Le braque?

Apparently Lebrac is pronounced the same as French "Le braque", roughly "the crazy one", or the braque dog. It doesn't seem improbable that Franquin had the pun in mind, but does anyone have a source enough to avoid Original Research? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 00:21, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Gastoncameo-voyageurdetail.jpg

Image:Gastoncameo-voyageurdetail.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 06:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

The FUR has been adjusted to meet demands of WP:NFCC#10c. MURGH disc. 11:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)