User talk:Garzo/archive/2004-11-23–2005-05-23

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Welcome!

Hello Garzo, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  --Flockmeal 23:59, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

Nice rewrite of Syriac language - keep it up! - Mustafaa 18:30, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, Semitics can always use work - starting with Semitic languages itself! If you're feeling ambitious, there's always List of Proto-Semitic roots, which I feel a bit guilty about having abandoned. And almost all the South Arabian and South Semitic languages are missing; and Ugaritic language might be worth expanding... or you could create articles devoted to the individual Neo-Aramaic languages. Afro-Asiatic languages is always fun as well. Another person you might like to talk to is User:Gilgamesh, who's very interested in Semitics, especially dialects of Hebrew. - Mustafaa 00:28, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And given your user page info, I should probably also suggest having a look at Wikipedia:Meetup/London. - Mustafaa 01:45, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Excellent expansion! I think the Aramaic language article may be ready to propose for Wikipedia:Featured article candidates before long. I'll see if I can help a bit. - Mustafaa 11:53, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! I've been thinking for a while that a Jerusalem#In Christianity needed writing. - Mustafaa 02:14, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nice work on Antimension. JHCC 16:59, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You asked on my talk page if adding info on Oriental Orthodoxy would be countering systemic bias, or filling articles with minority info. My answer: who cares? If it's relevant, it's relevant. Sometimes adding minority info can lead to a whole new article. For example, you could take the info you added to antimension, make a new article for Tâbot, put a link to that new page on antimension and a link back to antimension on the new page. I did something similar with Omophorion and Pallium. JHCC 17:31, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Judas Iscariot

Quite right about the etymology! Thank you for the courage. --Wetman 00:35, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Nabataean alphabet

Looks good, but there are still a few issues; for one thing, most of the special characters came out as "?" (Photoshop does that sometimes.) For another, the specific variety or period should be labelled if possible. I've got a book on Saudi Nabataean inscriptions; I'll see if there's anything in it that would be worth adding to the table. Given how Hebrew-like it looks, I can certainly see that it might make sense to add the Hebrew column; I've always thought Syriac looked a more plausible source for Arabic myself, but what do I know? - Mustafaa 10:49, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I was a bit disappointed at how the Nabataean alphabet table turned out. It all looked fine before I converted into an image file. I would like to have a table that showed the alphabet at different stages of its development. I certainly would be nice to end up with something that looks like a forbear of Arabic. However, the script I was working on is a late Petra script, and still looks more like Hebrew. Gareth Hughes 13:19, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] I hereby award you...

I hereby award you with the Exceptional Newcomer Award for your contributions, always of exceptional quality, to all sorts of articles (and notably the linguistic ones in the corner of Wikipedia where I'm most at home).

You arrived barely a month ago, and reading through your contributions, I think that almost every single one of them is very valuable and well thought-out. Your list of Past projects speaks for itself. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! Keep up the good work! — mark ✎ 01:12, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

How thoughtful, Mark! Thank you for the butterfly. I'm still trying to get the idea of collaboration here - one can only do so many 'bold rewrites' before it becomes obvious that one is a megalomaniac! So, if you have any thoughts for a bit of collaboration...
Gareth Hughes 01:21, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
We might meet each other at Grammatical tense to begin with (or better yet, Tense (linguistics)) — I spotted your post on its talk page. However, I should complete some other projects first (viz. the red links of Senufo languages)... — mark ✎ 01:34, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hi Garzo! I've added the hieroglyph templates to the WikiProject main page -- they're clearly an improvement over what I've done in the past of trying to add the hieroglyphics into the text. (Guess it's time for me to fix the 3 or 4 articles I've added hieroglyphs to.) BTW, you may be interested in some Public Domain images of old Bible manuscripts I've uploaded over at WikiCommons that I've scanned from a family Bible. Please use them if you find them useful. -- llywrch 18:15, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've just found them — I managed to work out that this address would index the images — http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Llywrch . I'm sure there is a lot that can be done with these, thanks. Gareth Hughes 00:15, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I haven't found as many uses for these images as I would like. I'm only about a quarter or a third of the way thru the illustrations -- there are 120 plates all told (a few of which aren't worth scanning), so I hope some of the other yet-to-be uploaded files will be well received. -- llywrch 02:45, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Hiero etc

Just to continue the theme of wikilove from above, for all your efforts on the hieroglyph templates, you are hereby my hero of the day and here is a gold star (I hope you won't take offence at being awarded an ex-Soviet honour). -- ALoan (Talk) 22:24, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What a great present: thank you very much! The hiero templates are in decent shape now. We just need the information to plug the names into articles. I don't mind the Soviet honour at all. As long as I can wear a big fur hat and drive a tank through the Kremlin! Gareth Hughes 22:23, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] January

Thanks for the note about neutrality. Is the Gregorian calendar not open to definition in terms of other calendars? Laurel Bush 11:29, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC).

No, I think it would be good to list periods (months) in other calendars that fall partly in January. There has also been a suggestion that we have the name of the month in different languages (but a lot of these would look boringly like 'January'). I think it's fair to say that January originated as a winter month in the Roman calendar, and thus the name was carried over into the Julian and Gregorian calendars. That describes what January is, and I just feel it should be followed by information from other calendars, rather than preceded by it. Gareth Hughes 11:42, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Although the Gregorian calendar is a fully solar form of Roman calendar 'first month' does not of itself give seasonal or zodiacal position to January. I would agree the pagan Imbolc is considered better as an event than as a division of the year. Laurel Bush 12:58, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Western Neo-Aramaic

I only remember hearing the story from a friend who studies the Alqosh dialect, but I'll try and find the details. Apparently, they wanted to eat fish in Lent or something... - Mustafaa 21:49, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

I am concerned about a vandal called "Mr Diaper". Is there any info on him? --219.77.246.151 11:49, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There is some information on the Admins' noticeboard. The freedom of Wikipedia is open to vandalism. Most vandal-edits are reverted quite quickly, and persistent vandals are blocked from editing. I am constantly amazed that the humour value of altering articles keeps some vandals enthralled for vandal-edit upon edit. Gareth Hughes 12:13, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
You Bastard /unsigned edit by 82.34.57.87 19:01, 27 July 2005/
Thank you for your request for genealogical information. --Gareth Hughes 21:42, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cannabis rescheduling

Please help me pick an appropriate new name so it can be put up for FAC. What is the appropriate convention? Cannabis rescheduling in the United States, Cannabis rescheduling (U.S.), etc? Do we have anything we can use as an example? I've been scouring Wikipedia and haven't found anything helpful along those lines. Thanks, Rad Racer 09:15, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure if there is a policy that covers this. Brackets are handy because the wiki software can auto-complete the title in piped links. However, they make articles look a bit subsidiary. I think Cannabis rescheduling in the United States is quite appropriate. Thanks for moving this article. I did not want to come across as stroppy about it, but I hope that some inspiration can be found to write a more international article about approaches to cannabis legislation. Gareth Hughes 13:18, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
OK, it is just about ready for the main page. If anyone else wants to do any refining, now is a good time. See [[1]] and Cannabis rescheduling in the United States. Any changes to the lead should be made to both pages. Since I was a member of NORML, I had access to a lot more info about U.S. rescheduling than U.K. and international rescheduling (although I did write most of the articles in Category:Drug control treaties). Someone from one of the UK cannabis reform groups should probably write Cannabis rescheduling in the United Kingdom. Thanks, Rad Racer 22:04, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
OK, what do you think would be a good title for the article on cannabis rescheduling at the international treaty level? So far, all that content is under cannabis rescheduling. Rad Racer 20:52, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Wow, you've put a lot of work into broadening these articles. I think schedule is the term used in the international convention, and so rescheduling is the right word: reclassification just seemed to make better sense of UK usage to me. There is the thought at the back of mind that a less technical title might be helpful for the umbrella article: something like Legal status of cannabis or Cannabis and the law. Perhaps that's just dumbing the whole thing down, though. Gareth Hughes 23:00, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Someone already beat us to it: Legal issues of cannabis. The cannabis article is the hub, and everything revolves around that. Also, they are linked by Category:Cannabis. Other than that.. I'm not sure of the best way to link my articles to the rest.. mainly I want to prevent accidental duplication of work, and make it easy to find stuff. Rad Racer 23:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kurdistan flag thing

Id like to know what you mean my Kurdish nationalism since there is no Kurdish nation. Just curious, I dont like to be binded by my opinions so I'd like to hear yours. --Cool Cat| My Talk 14:46, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

A lot depends on the definition of nationalism and nation. Of course, these ideas are controversial and debatable even in their most general sense. I believe that the flag in question has been used by different sufficient Kurdish authorities, parties and organisations to warrant it being a general Kurdish flag, or even flag of Kurdistan, as a concept. That the flag is used by a certain group or organisation doesn't necessarily make it their flag. The flag in question seems to have been chosen by the Kurdish Autonomous Region because it has historical and cultural precedent as a Kurdish flag. If the content of the article Flag of Kurdistan is correct, then it is inappropriate to limit it as the KAR flag. As you have suggested, other flags are in use (specifically you have mentioned the PKK/Kadek flag), but this flag seems to be in more general use outside of Southern Kurdistan and in the Kurdish diaspora. Gareth Hughes 15:18, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Africa

You voted for Africa, this week's CSB Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. A list of concerns about the article have been placed on its talk page. BanyanTree 18:42, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much: I hadn't registered that the CSB COTW had changed. I shall be there to do what I can. Gareth Hughes 19:41, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] German genders

I'm sorry to persist, but there must be some sort of academy or committee to decide these things. Do you know where I could find out about it?--212.100.250.212 17:23, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No, there is no official body that decides these matters. I've given a more complete answer at Reference desk: Duden and the Deutscher Sprachrat are the main players. Most languages do not have any official authority (French and Castillian do): in fact German, with Duden, has more centralised authority than English with Oxford English Dictionary and Websters. Gareth Hughes 17:37, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What is Deutscher Sprachat? And also, doesn't the German government need to decide in laws as to whether words are der, die or das? Surely it would be ambiguous?--212.100.250.212 17:47, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Have a look at http://www.deutscher-sprachrat.de/. It promotes German throughout the world, has intimate links with Duden and is a forum for discussion about the language. If you e-mail them, they would give you a better answer than I ever could. In fact all language is ambiguous to some degree or another. The gender of a word doesn't matter too much in German: there are some words that have a different gender in different areas, and Swiss German doesn't really bother with them that much. The last thing the German government need to do is legislate on the grammatical gender of every word: the police don't consider poor grammar an arrestable offence as yet! Gareth Hughes 17:57, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] De Vicipaedia Latina

I already asked this on commons, but I figured I was more likely to get an answer if I repeated myself here. I see that you have listed yourself as "la-3". Do you ever contribute on La:? If your Latin's good we could sure use you. --Iustinus 07:44, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Calcutta

The way of commenting on, or voting on, a page move on WP:RM has changed. Now these discussions take place on talk page of the page to be moved see: Talk:Calcutta. Philip Baird Shearer 15:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for a laugh!

Hi! Just wanted to say that your comment on the Stanislaw Koniecpolski FAC had me in stitches. I'm posting it here for posterity. Cheers. --Plek 09:01, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The opening sentence reads:

Stanisław Koniecpolski, (1590/15941 - 11 March 1646) was a szlachcic (Polish noble), magnate, starost and Field and Grand Crown Hetman of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

The opening paragraph should give the basic information that is necessary for someone who knows nothing about Koniecpolski or the Rzeczpospolita to know what the article is about, otherwise it reads:

Unpronouncable (who lived maybe then) was an unpronouncable, not the thing you stick to a fridge, no that's a landowner, some word I don't understand, with a really grand title that must require a very shiny uniform of a political entity in Eastern Europe I've never heard about.

It might sound cruel, but, if I'm honest, that's how it reads to me.

Thank you, Petja; I'm glad you enjoyed it. I really didn't mean to be cruel about this article or its main contributor: I think it is a good article (and I've seen some really bad ones!). The wonderful orthography of Polish just has that marvelous ability of stopping most English speakers (and Dutch speakers as well, no doubt) in their tracks. Its just a simple idea that the lead section shouldn't read like an assault course. Gareth Hughes 10:09, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I believe I have adressed your concerns now, could you take a look again and perhaps update your vote - or post more concerns? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 11:34, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hi there

Hi there Gareth, thanks for the advice. And wow - your response was super-quick! Seriously, how do you do it? The reason I 'blanked' the page was because I didn't think the redirect was the right thing for the page to have on it. I thought it was a much better idea for the link on Bill Crosby's homepage to be a 'red link' (i.e. no article yet). To redirect Camille Crosby's page to her husband's, (and there is no information about her on the page) seemed from both a sexism and a wikipedia point of view makes it look like there a page doesn't need to be a page written about Camille.

Whoops, I haven't a clue who these people are. I simply saw that the page was blanked and followed through. A previous user had changed the article to a redirect, but if you think it's better to say who she is, giving as much information as you can, and linking to her son's article, then please go ahead. If you need any help with this let me know. Gareth Hughes 12:28, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

I refer you to the relevant policy: Be bold. Neutralitytalk 00:39, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Euphrates image

You welcome. :) -- Darwinek 21:14, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Your kind words of welcome are sincerely appreciated. Thank you for taking part in this amazing Wikipedia project! BlueGenes 02:11, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your vote on Calcutta/Kolkata was done in the wrong place

You voted on this at Wikipedia:Requested moves, but the vote needs to be done at Talk:Calcutta/Vote in order to count. -- Curps 03:28, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] International English

Sorry about my misunderstanding of the difference between British prestige dialect and Received Pronunciation. I was fooled by my interpretation of Wilson's Columbia Guide to Standard American English (New York: Columbia University Press, 1993), which states that "In Britain, Received Standard Southern British English is the main prestige dialect." --Theo (Talk) 16:29, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I apologise for the abruptness of an rv, Theo. I think prestige dialect is still a red link, and I would love to fill it in at some point. The distinctions between accents, dialects and languages can get quite difficult at times. Received Pronunciation is really an accent: it is a phonological mapping of the English language. However, all sorts of proper usage are bound up with RP, and the package as a whole often goes under that heading. I use standard British English most of the time, but I only ever approximate to RP when I feel I must. Gareth Hughes 16:40, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No worries about the rv. I took it to be well-meant. Prestige dialect is no longer a red link. I have created a stub for you to fill in [typed with a smile]. --Theo (Talk) 18:13, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Good job on the Prestige dialect expansion. --Theo (Talk) 17:14, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. It's a good little article. I'm sure we can think of some more to add to it, but it's just looking okay at the moment. Of course, I turned up those red links: the only decent page about creolisation seems to be creole language. Perhaps that's next! Gareth Hughes 17:18, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] PfoHo

Gareth, thanks for your welcome! I would like to add a photo to the article but will probably need to go there and take one at some point! I have a crazy feeling someone else (like a current resident) will supply one first. ~ EsdnePyaJ 23:49, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Welcomes

Thanks for you're welcome and comment. Appreciated! Lee-Jon 19:54, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for welcoming me aboard. I made a few changes to the Jellyfish page before I logged in as a user. What fun this is! xoxoxoxoxo March 9, 2005

[edit] Thanks for the welcome.

I really appretiated the welcome message you left me on my talk page. I've got to admit, when I first edited the Wikipedia I was a little scared. I've since overcome my fear of Wikipedia editing and your welcome message makes me feel even more comfterable among Wikipedians. Again, thanks for the warm welcome. Tyler Stransky 02:32, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your welcome

It has been an interesting fortnight! Every time I add a factual comment or reference it is deleted by the "thought police" who seem to patrol wikipedia inflicting their prejudices. Sci guy.

[edit] Chaldeans

Ooops! That'll teach me to investigate more carefully before jumping in (well, it should; whether or not it will is another matter). Thanks for dealing with it. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:29, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've been watching this article for political-POV edits for a while, and suddenly realised that I saw a completely different article. You did a great job tidying the article; I just thought I'd better retrieve the old one too. It needs a lot more work though... Gareth Hughes 19:56, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Orkhon script

It's my job, isn't it? Evertype 22:05, 2005 Mar 14 (UTC)

To brighten up my day with orthographic presents? How lovely! Gareth Hughes 22:07, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
No, more like my actual job.... Evertype 23:04, 2005 Mar 14 (UTC)
...So, do I have to pay you to take a look at my attempt at User:Garzo/lala#Nabataean alphabet, just so you can say, "You don't want to do it like that"? Gareth Hughes 23:23, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
No. You already know you don't want to do it like that. Evertype 13:50, 2005 Mar 15 (UTC)

[edit] Hieroglyphs

Thank you!

It looks like you've been adding the glyphs to several articles on Ancient Egyptians. BTW thanks for the ones for my cat :) I've been looking for some of those, so again I thank you very much. Mgm|(talk) 09:52, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

One more question: is A41 the same as the final glyph for "Shu" as pictured here. There's a minor difference in the glyphs and it's jarring me. I can't find anything that's a better likeness. Please advise. 131.211.208.36 12:01, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the thank you! The Egyptian hieroglyphs for cat are:

mi i w E13

or miw. Shu or shw is written:

Sw w A40

The final sign is the determanitive for 'god', and has the Gardiner reference A40. Gareth Hughes 17:02, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks, I recently found there was a difference between A41 and A40. I've already removed incorrect glyphs, I'll add A40 where needed. Mgm|(talk) 12:24, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)
It's good to hear from you, Paul. Typing messages here is a good way to get my attention; otherwise, the E-mail this user link can get to me. I think there is a lot from fr:Hiéroglyphe that can be used at en:Hieroglyph. I never felt that Ptolomy was a very good example of how hieroglyphs work. I added the section around the sign pr to expand the detail. I think, perhaps, fr:Hiéroglyphe is too technical, and it might not be appropriate to move all its material to the English article. If you would like to mastermind the move, I shall try to help with the organisation of material into the English article. --Gareth Hughes 13:32, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Human Rights Day

Oy, I was going to write that one -- yup, I know the feeling and, yup, the usual result is an impetus to attack a number of related articles before the usurper (or a different one) beats you to them as well. Hope so! Thanks for the message, –Hajor 20:22, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Liturgical year

Hello, Garzo. I did a little work on this template. I'd be happy to hear what you think. Jonathunder 04:45, 2005 Mar 21 (UTC)

[edit] United Nations Observances

I was wondering if you are still interested in trying to write articles on the specific days, since the merge notices I put are still there. Zscout370 21:33, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] removal of "superfluous lines"

I don't know whether or not you looked at your "removal of superfluous lines" in the Lishanid Noshan article, but there was a reason why I put them in there: without those "extra lines", the {Jewish language} template sits in the middle of the page instead of on the right hand side. If you like it sitting in the middle of the page, then leave it I guess, otherwise, please undo your edit. You'll notice I used the same method on some of the other Judæo-Aramaic language articles. TShilo12 22:18, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. There shouldn't be a need to add more than a single blank line (which is rendered as a paragraph break) to wikitext. Actually, my browser displays the page perfectly. I checked it with MSIE as well, and there was no problem with that. The usual fix for colliding templates is to add a clear attribute to a break tag. Gareth Hughes 23:40, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Gaccia. Thanks. I put in a Template:clear before the Template:Jewish_language and now it looks good on my screen. Let me know if it doesn't look right on yours. I'm using 1280x1024. Tomer 01:32, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Although it still looks the same to me, I'm glad it's displaying properly for you now. Gareth Hughes 22:21, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] small cursive font

Hi. Maybe this doesn't matter, but on your userpage, having the cursive font display in 10 point in the current projects box makes the text almost unreadable on my screen. Maybe you want font size="-1" or "-2" or something instead? I guess this really depends on which cursive font the browser has as default, and what the default size of screen fonts is, on what sized monitor. Anyway, otherwise, your userpage is pretty nifty. --jacobolus (t) 07:42, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the vote of niftyness! I've altered the CSS so that the text is no longer relative. However, it still has to be quite small, unless I cut the length of the quotes. There is always the problem that I might be using a different generic font and resolution to you. I shall look for shorter quotes, and bigger text! Gareth Hughes 23:05, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Passion?

Hello Garzo, have you seen the Passion of the Christ. I see that you seem to be familiar with the Aramaic language. If you've seen the Passion of the Christ, then you know that the languages spoken in the movie were the dead languages of Aramaic and Latin. If you've seen the movie, what kind of Aramaic dialect do you think was spoken in that film? Wondering about the Aramaic dialect in this movie is making me scratch my head. Best regards, --Gramaic 09:58, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The language used in the film is part of what is supposed to make it more authentic. This works on a general level. However, the preference of Latin over Greek is odd. Although Latin was the administrative language of the Roman Empire, Greek was the lingua franca of the eastern half of the empire. I suspect that the importance of Latin to a traditional Roman Catholic like Gibson might have encouraged its use in contexts where it probably wasn't used. The Aramaic used in the film is bit more tricky. It was created by a single scholar, William Fulco, and is a reconstructed language. Aramaic is roughly divided into eastern and western dialect regions. Although Jerusalem is in the western region, the eastern region is the more dominant. The reconstructed Aramaic of the film is heavily eastern, and heavily influenced by Hebrew. This makes it quite similar to Biblical Aramaic in some ways. However, chosing an eastern dialect for the basis of the Aramaic of the film makes for a very stilted and bookish dialogue. The evidence shows that first century Jerusalem used this kind of language only in purposefully archaic religious literature, and that various western dialects were used in speech and most colloquial documents. The problem has always been that we do not have enough documentary evidence for the Aramaic dialects that were in use during the first century in the western dialect region. A friend commented, after watching the film, that it sounded to him like BBC Aramaic! Gareth Hughes 11:09, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gmail invites

I have a few Gmail invites if anyone wants one. E-mail [garzohugo AT gmail DOT com] and I'll send you an invite. Gareth Hughes 18:47, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History of the Mediterannean

Hello Garzo, I've seen your work and comments on the Aramaic language, and the article on Syria. I assume that you're familiar with Mediterannean History. I have started a new page called History of the Mediterannean. If you like, you can add and edit to that page so we can have a lot of good information and make that article I've started a lot bigger.--Gramaic 03:48, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Eavesdropping again, sorry: I have redirected to History of the Mediterranean region (note the spelling, but a useful redirect anyway). -- ALoan (Talk) 16:14, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Come in out of the rain: the guttering is broken! Good catch with the spelling. I think this is an important article, but it has to be very tightly focused, I believe. It would be far too easy for this article to become the history of regions that happen to be adjacent to the Mediterranean. However, I believe it should focus on major historical events of entire region: for example, Phoenician, Greek, Roman, Arabic and Norman sea empires. I'll pop by... --Gareth Hughes 13:41, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arabic star names

Hi Garzo,

Thanks for your offer to help!

I've been adding Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Chinese, and especially Arabic sources of star names at List_of_stars_by_constellation. Wikipedian Alef01 has added quite a bit to the Arabic, and made quite a few corrections. However, I believe we're both approaching it by taking standard references such as Allen and trying to match this to the Arabic, rather than researching the medieval almanacs themselves. The discussion page covers some of the differences we've had.

If you can add anything, I'd be grateful. I put in tranliterations or translations even where I didn't have the actual Arabic, in the hopes that someone such as yourself would fill in the gaps. However, folk etymology is a real problem here, especially with corrupted names (such as Betelgeuse from Yed el Jawza', where y>b was a misreading, and d>t was an attempt to correct the resulting nonsensical name), so if you actually have Arabic sources, that would be fantastic.

There are several Persian names as well, which I haven't done much with yet. They're labeled "Persian" except for Giauzar.

I haven't done anything with Sumerian, as I don't know how to represent the cuneiform. If you can do something here, it would be even more valuable than the Arabic, which at least is patially done.

--kwami 05:10, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hiya, Kwami! It's good to hear from you. That's quite a list you've managed to put together: I imagine this kind of thing could easily become obsesive. I don't think I've seen an attempt at such a complete listing of star names. Unfortunately, most modern astro texts are not written by linguists. However, there a lots of bits and pieces being published about palaeo-astronomy, which I find quite fascinating. I'll have a rummage through what I have, and see if I can add anything. Cuneiform is often not written (Unicode still doesn't do a good job with it, and fonts don't bother): simple transliterations are quite acceptable. --Gareth Hughes 22:49, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Didn't mean to mislead: I didn't create the page, just added the original languages the best I could. I do have a fair number of Sumerian names that aren't on the list, but if they're that obscure, maybe it's best just to leave them out. (Where would you stop?) —kwami 07:45, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chaldean

Please take a look at Chaldean if you would - I reorganized it after being rather confused by it. Thank you for all your work on Aramaic-related articles BTW. -==SV 19:35, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm going through the article now. You've done a great job knocking it into shape. I wonder whether it might be better to have the two sections the other way round: in chronological order. Also, would it be more consistant to talk about historical references instead of Babylonia alongside contemporary references? I'll have a go at editing: let me know what you think. --Gareth Hughes 22:49, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs

OK, it is now a Featured Article Candidate. Please vote at the nomination page. Thanks, Rad Racer | Talk 01:49, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Commas

Hello, Gareth. I appreciate your help a few months ago on International English. I wonder if you could offer some insight concerning appositives at the style guide talkpage. Thanks. Maurreen 16:54, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's good to hear from you again, Maurreen. I've added a wee comment to that talk page. I'm not entirely sure what the fuss is all about. I believe the with-comma syntax should be context driven, and not applied as a blanket style — I hate hearing 'Paris, France', for instance. Even though technically the comma is less handy than parentheses (piped links auto-complete), I think the comma looks more correct. --Gareth Hughes 20:59, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Yes, it's spelled with a final dotless ya (ie alif maqsura), so muSTafaa. The classical pronunciation would stress the final syllable, but both the colloquial Algerian (məSTafa) and the English pronunciation I prefer stress the second syllable. What does "Garzo" mean? I'm guessing it's western Syriac... - Mustafaa 07:46, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I cannot remember seeing the name written in Arabic مصطفى: I had always thought it must be spelt with a final haa'. In Levantine Arabic, I hear the final vowel as short, and the stress on the first syllable.
As for Garzo, I suppose it does sound a little like ܓܙܐ, gazo, treasure. However, I'm afraid it's just a contraction of my name Gareth. --Gareth Hughes 14:03, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the words Syria and Lebanon

Hello Gareth, one time I read in the Bible that the word "Syria" is actually Hebrew for plain, then all of the sudden I read in the Syria article that the word "Syria" is actually Greek. I'm confused, is "Syria" Hebrew or Greek? In addition, a long time ago, I heard somewhere that the words, either "Lebanon" or "Beirut" is actually Aramaic for God's Heart. The phrase "God's Heart" in Arabic would be, قلب الله Kalb Allah. So Gareth, what do you think of all that?--Gramaic 01:42, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I realize nobody asked me...but the name Syria is from the name of the city called Tyre in English, S.ur in Arabic, Tyrus in Greek, Tzor in Hebrew, which was apparently Tzur in Phoenician, and meant "rock". The historical name for the area that now comprises the modern nation-state of Syria is actually Aram (whence the language of its inhabitants before the muslim invasion, Aramic) (Far northern modern Syria was formerly Ashur, viz. Assyria, from the Greek name, which was modelled by analogy with Syria). So anyways, technically, Syria is "Phoenicia", although the current nation-state has nothing to do with the ancient Phoenicians, and indeed covers very little of the are of ancient Phoenicia, and a lot of area that was well beyond the influence of the Phoenicians. Lebanon is from the Hebrew word for white, "Labhan", whence the name of the perpetually snow-covered mountain in Hebrew, Levanon. Berut is an ancient Phoenician city, and if I recall correctly, its name means "Cypress" (a kind of tree). Tomer TALK 02:46, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
That's an okay kind of argument — far too much weight given to Hebrew (the Phoenicians apparently using Modern Hebrew pronunciation, Tzur, and Lebanon being a Hebrew word!). The Phoenician word ẓûr means rock or mountain, which is quite appropriate for the city of Tyre. The Greeks called this city Τυρος as the Aramaic is ṭûr. Therefore, it would be more likely that the land east of Tyre would have been called Tyria. The other argument suggests that Syria is derived from Assyria, which is reasonable enough. The name could be a mixture of the two. Whichever root we take, the Greek use of the name is most important: the modern Arabic is السورية.
I would prefer to transliterate قلب as qalb, so as not to confuse it with كلب, dog! In Old Aramaic, leb alāhā is the heart of God. However, Lebanon is actually named after a similar root, lbn, meaning white, probably in reference to the mountains. The same root is used in various Semitic languages to refer to incense, milk and yoghurt. I don't think the name Beirut has anything to do with the cypress. The Phoenician word bara means well, and came to mean any independent place, like a fortress. Beirut comes from the feminine plural. --Gareth Hughes 14:46, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] سوريا or سورية

Speaking of السورية, the word Syria in Arabic is either written as سوريا or سورية. To my understanding, سوريا is the word that means the country of Syria, and سورية is the word that sort of means a female citizen of Syria (compared with سوري Souri, which refers to a male Syrian citizen). So which word is more correct to refer to the country of Syria instead of referring to its citizens, سوريا or سورية?--Gramaic 01:23, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think the proper answer is that السوريا — as-sūriyyā — is the classical name. Check with Mustafaa to be sure, though. In Levantine Arabic the final vowel is short, and the name is usually written the same as the feminine adjective: السورية — as-sūriyya or even more colloquially is-sūrya. To be an utter Shami, one would say الشام — ish-shām! --Gareth Hughes 14:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Recordings

Gareth,

Sorry if I seem a little unresponsive these days. I've been very busy lately, so I haven't been able to respond here yet. If I find some more time again, I'd certainly be willing to process your sound files. Somewhere on my 'short term to do list' there is also Grammatical tense/multilingual sources — I didn't forget about it and I'll get back to it eventually. I even got hold of Bybee, Perkins, and Paglucia's The Evolution of Grammar recently. Anyway, keep up the great work; see you around! — mark ✎ 21:53, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry, Mark: I think I'm in the same place that you are at the moment. I've got this habit of leaving a tab of Wikipedia open while I'm working, and do the odd bit in between inspiration. I'm sorry the sound file didn't clean up as well as expected (I'm sure it would help if I read the instructions!). I'm glad you managed to find Bybee & al.: I too have grammatical tense on my 'to do' list. I feel there are just a few elements of tense that it would be good to have examples of, and we can then start rewriting the article. I get the feeling that there might be criticism from some quarters though. It's always a pleasure to read your edits: keep it up! --Gareth Hughes 10:51, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Tamil alphabet chart.png

I noticed your comments on Image:Tamil alphabet chart.png. If you've any queries regarding the image contact User talk:Vadakkan. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 10:29, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Right-to-left text

Regarding the article Assyrian_Neo-Aramaic, I noticed that in the yellow header of the Language bar on the right, the Assyrian text is written left-to-right, when it should be right-to-left. (I noticed it because I read/write in Assyrian Neo-Aramaic.) In, e.g., Aramaic_language, it is correctly written right-to-left.

Since I'm new to Wikipedia, I thought I should ask before fixing it...

Thanks for the note. I've been having trouble with rtl text displaying as ltr for a while, and there seems to be a particular problem with Syriac script. I've tried various tweaks to try and get it to work. I'll put a notice on the village pump to see if anyone can enlighten us. --Gareth Hughes 10:15, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This problem is persistant. I commented on it at the village pump, and got some suggestions. It looks like it's a browser problem: I'm running Firefox and get this problem with some Syriac (but not all). I've checked it in MSIE, and it works fine if given the stylesheets to tell it what it should do. I'll continue to ork on this problem. --Gareth Hughes 13:19, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mende

Dear Gareth, may I ask you to review Mende tribe (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) and Mende language (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs). I am arguing against the misinformed and unsubstantiated statements added there by User:Roylee. Roylee answered to my question on his talk and on Talk:Mende language by simply reverting back to his previous version. I don't want to turn this into an overheated argument so I'm stepping back from it for today, after having carefully explained my position and actions. If you have the time, could you take a look at the situation and maybe try to explain policies like Cite sources, Verifiability, Reliable sources, Weasel words, etc. to Roylee? Besides you, I have also asked BanyanTree and Mustafaa to tune in, hoping to bring reason to this articles. Thanks! — mark ✎ 15:10, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No worries, Mark. It looks like this user is pushing for a rather odd understanding of this people and their language: it's obviously not encyclopaedic. I'll keep a watch on it. --Gareth Hughes 19:02, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hi Gareth, Mark and I have begun to see a pattern of insertion of fringe theories by this user going back to December that are then used as "proof" for futher edits. It's a bit unsettling. I have put it up at Wikipedia:RC patrol. - BanyanTree 01:37, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The modus operandi of this user is entirely suspect: there seems to be use of a number of related IP accounts as well as a user account (I haven't found evidence for sockpuppets, but they may be dormant), and there is no attempt to engage with the community or reach consensus. The pattern is vandalistic, but not the run-of-the-mill vandalism: the edits involve obscure, off-the-wall POV, which seem to be designed to baffle most users into accepting that it's not vandalism. Is there any chance of a threat to block unless the user explains themself, followed by a block if they don't? --Gareth Hughes 13:28, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clerical clothing

Gareth, I've just created a Clerical clothing page, as well as moving all the Orthodox "non-liturgical" items to it from the Vestment page and adding Orthodox cassocks to the Cassock page. Could you please look at these three pages and add Oriental Orthodox and Anglican content to them? You're probably the best qualified Wikipedian I know for this specific request! Thanks. JHCC 14:54, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Qaryanic

I was going to VfD this on sight, but I thought I should check it with you first, in case it contains come kernel of reality after all... - Mustafaa 23:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The article is badly written, but it seems that there is a group of Southern Baptist Christians in USA (how many?) who feel that their religion needs to be more interesting, and have simplified Aramaic for their use. There's more at Qaryanism. It might be worth VfD if only to get some response from the authors. However, I'll start by asking on the talk pages what it's all about. --Gareth Hughes 13:46, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Egypt

Hello Gareth. I was wondering do you know what the word Egypt means. I've heard one time that the Arabic word for Egypt (Misr مصر), is actually Greek for "The Land of the Coptics." So, what do you think? I asked Tomer about it on his talk page more than a week ago, but he hasn't responded. Best regards, --Gramaic 05:08, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hi there! You've got all the basic information about the names for Egypt there: they just need to be sorted through a bit. You're right that مصر, Miṣr, is the Arabic name for Egypt. It seems that this is an ancient name. The Torah refers to Egypt as מצרים, Miṣrayim. This name has the dual ending, which suggests to me something of the ancient idea of Egypt as a dual kingdom (was a similar idea used for the dual kingdom of Judah and Samaria?). This name is attested in other languages: Ugaritic mṣrm, at Amarna miṣri and Akkadian muṣur or muṣri. There is some evidence for the Egyptian adjective msrym, but this seems to be a borrowing from Semitic. The usual Egyptian word for Egypt is kmt, which is Coptic Kēme. In the Amarna letters, the city of Memphis is referred to as ḫikuptaḫ, which seems to be a rendering of the Egyptian title ḥwt-k3-ptḥ, house of the spirit of Ptah. It is perhaps from this that the Greek name Αιγυπτος, Aigyptos is derived: a metonym for the whole land. The first occurrence of the Greek name is in the Odyssey. The modern name Copt for certain Egyptian Christians is likely to be a back formation from Aigyptos. --Gareth Hughes 12:16, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Flight

Gareth, I started a new article that is called Christian Flight. It talks about the migration of the Christian people around the world, especially the Middle East because it has experienced a big decline in the percentage of Middle Eastern Christians. Since your an Anglican priest, I thought you might find this article quite interesting.--Gramaic 00:30, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

I feel a wee bit uneasy about this article: I'm sure there is an article there, but I'm not sure if this is the best way to handle it. Firstly, I do not think that the title works very well. The article is about dispersion/diaspora and emigration of Christian peoples from lands in which they are in a minority to lands where they are not in such a minority. The motives for emigration are many and varied: persecution does figure, some leave because of a more general disquiet about ethno-religious politics, some leave social unrest, and some are economic migrants. It would be possible to have an article on Emigration of Christians from the Middle East: that would be specific and upfront, but I'm not sure that Christian flight is even tangible enough for an article. --Gareth Hughes 12:25, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


Hello garzo, I would like to ask some questions, email me at listen_to_rock@yahoo.com so we can discuss on email, remove this later. sorry

213.114.242.29, please use the link in the toolbox emailuser/Garzo if you have questions you do not want to air in public. Otherwise write comments here. --Gareth Hughes 00:49, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Gareth, I took your advise, and changed the title of "Christian flight" to Christian emigration. Christian flight is now a redirect.--Gramaic 03:46, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, Gramaic. I was quite sceptical about the article at first, but now I see where you're going with it. I think it is an important subject, but I am a little worried as its neutrality could quite easily be lost. All the best with it. --Gareth Hughes 10:08, 4 May 2005 (UTC)


Thanx for your welcome --Davide Bianchini 16:17, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

No probs, Davide, enjoy Wikipedia! --Gareth Hughes 20:26, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Elohim and Gesenius

Names of God in Judaism --> Elohim

I was the one who added in that note about the counter argument on Elohim of Trinitarians. I was visiting the page again to see if it had been changed again and noticed the history tab; so I clicked on it. Now I realize that you have altered Gesenius's notation about plurals of majesty. I typed out the entire notation, and you altered it.

If you would like to see it for yourself, you can go to this site:
http://www.adath-shalom.ca/gk_cont.htm
There you will find the complete edition of Gesenius's "Hebrew Grammar" along with the notation on the Elohim plurals at the bottom of the PDF file of the following name:
124. The Various Uses of the Plural-Form

By altering the notation, you have altered Gesenius's words; and that makes the notation less credible. Please consider reverting the notation back to it's original state.

By the way, many theologians do dispute this claim. It is not a largely accepted view that Elohim is a plural of majesty. In my opinion, whoever wrote the paragraph above mine has declared something that is controversial because it is not true that it is largely accepted. It is only accepted by modern Jewish scholars who practice Judaism and other non-Christians who would like to discredit the Trinity and certain Christian denominations with different views on the issue. I would hardly call that largely accepted considering the immense bias these people bring. At least, I declared that there were theologians who say those things in support of the Trinity, rather than inferring that everyone but a bunch of hacks accept it.
I say that it is Jews who practice Judaism who accept the plurals of majesty claim because there are Jews who believe in Jesus such as the following:
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/10_8/trinity

"Hear, O Israel, Adonai Eloheinu Adonai is one. These three are one. How can the three Names be one? Only through the perception of faith; in the vision of the Holy Spirit, in the beholding of the hidden eye alone.…So it is with the mystery of the threefold Divine manifestations designated by Adonai Eloheinu Adonai—three modes which yet form one unity."1

A Christian quote? Hardly. The above is taken from the Zohar, an ancient book of Jewish mysticism. The Zohar is somewhat esoteric and most contemporary Jews don't study it, but there are other Jewish books that refer to God's plurality as well.

Why then won't Jews discuss these things? Could it be that to do so might lead a person to consider Y'shua (Jesus) as who and what he claimed to be?2 Rabbis denounce the idea that God would come to us in human flesh as utterly pagan and contrary to what Judaism teaches.

The article is found under the following which has other highly detailed articles on the proof of the Trinity:
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/theology/godofabraham

The Name Eloah

If the plural form Elohim was the only form available for a reference to God, then conceivably the argument might be made that the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures had no other alternative but to use the word Elohim for both the one true God and the many false gods. However, the singular form for Elohim (Eloah) exists and is used in such passages as Deuteronomy 32:15-17 and Habakkuk 3:3. This singular form could have easily been used consistently. Yet it is only used 250 times, while the plural form is used 2,500 times. The far greater use of the plural form again turns the argument in favor of plurality in the Godhead rather than against it.

Thank you for your time.

June aka JuneBelle

Thank you for getting in touch, June. You can see the exact changes that I made to your edits by look at this diff. You are represented by your IP address (172.136.250.53) as your edits were made before you logged in with a user name. As you can see I used the edit summary to say Elohim - wikify -- the last edits were interesting, but poorly written: I've corrected the markup, but it still needs a good copyedit. As you can clearly see, I describe your contribution as interesting but poorly written. I feel that my edit was a tidying up exercise. I can see from the way you have written your response to me that you may find it useful to read How to edit a page, an article that provides basic information on marking-up contributions to Wikipedia. I hope that you enjoy your experience as a Wikipedia editor. Please contact me if there is anything else I can assist you with. --Gareth Hughes 10:04, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I noted the summary; but I still must protest because that was an exact quote from the source. By altering it, it is less credible.

Thank you for the link. I understand I am not doing this exactly right and have viewed that page. It's just that, after being so used to HTML, I'm having a hard time,essentially, switching to a different coding language.

June