Talk:Garry Moore

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Good article Garry Moore has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Garry Moore article.
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Contents

[edit] Daytime

The Garry Moore Show that I remember was a prime time show where his sidekick was Durwood Kirby. Was there also a daytime version? Rlquall 00:19, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] autograph

Hi,

I have his autograph if anyone wants it. It says "To John, Garry Moore". I put a date on the paper, 12/31/66. He used to live down the street from me in a suburban community of NY.

If you want the autograph, write to lipwak@yahoo.com

Cheers,

John

[edit] Rock Star

The link on the Korean Airline Disaster points to here about a rock star who made a song about it, but I think that is a different Garry Moore.

[edit] Confusion

The page confuses the two separate Garry Moore Shows that ran in primetime. The first ended in 1964. The second was a brief affair in 1967 that was against Bonanza. Lily Tomlin appeared in that series in a role similar to the one Carol Burnett had in the first.

[edit] GA nomination

I have nominated this to be a good article. Let's see how it does. FamicomJL (talk) 20:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Comments:

  1. Reference #14 is not a reliable source. REMOVED, couldn't find a RS.
  2. External links #2 and #3 are copies of material used in the references and should be removed DONE
  3. All one-two sentence paragraphs must be either expanded or merged with surrounding paragraphs, as they cannot stand alone. DONE
  4. Image:GarryMoore2.jpg is up for deletion and rightly so. Saying that the image is to be used "to display an image of Garry Moore" and admitting that the image is "probably" replaceable doesn't work for Fair Use per WP:NFCC. It should probably be replaced with Image:Garrymoore.jpg in the infobox, which has a better fair use rationale. REMOVED
  5. Speaking of Image:Garrymoore.jpg, is there any more context that could be used to contextualize how old he is in that capture? Do we know what year or about what time the show of the capture first aired? DONE
  6. The lead needs to conform to WP:LEAD. Specifically, it must touch upon every major point/heading made in the body of the article, which would necessitate at least two paragraphs for an article of this side. Currently, it is far too general and short to meet this criteria. DONE
  7. All of the references need to go after the punctuation. DONE
  8. "Until September, it was also simulcast on radio." (Television career). Of 1950 or 2007? This statement needs to be dated properly. DONE
  9. "The more successful Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour replaced The Garry Moore Show in the CBS time slot." (Television career) requires a citation DONE
  10. The prose strikes me as very choppy at the moment, but it's hard to tell because of all the one-two sentence paragraphs. DONE?
  11. Joe Garagiola needs to be disambiguated in the article. DONE

Normally, when a review encounters a small number of problems, it is placed on hold to allow for the changes to be made. In this case, I feel that the required changes, especially the merging of paragraphs and expansion of the lead, would require a whole other review for a proper re-evaluation. In addition, the status of at least one of the images is up in the air right now. For these reasons, I am failing the article at this time. If you feel that this review is in error, you may take it to good article reassessment. Thank you for your work thus far. Cheers, CP 03:44, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I know you failed the review, but I have fixed every error in the article. Would you be able to look at the article and tell me how it looks now? Regards. FamicomJL (talk) 05:22, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Even without a full review, I can tell that the important concern has not been addressed, and that a lot of the solutions were "band-aid" fixes to the problems. The lead is still inadequate; it doesn't cover his early life or radio career in anything but generalities; it barely does anything more than mention that he had it. The second paragraph doesn't do justice to the "Television career" section and there's still no mention of the "Retirement and death" section. There are still one-two sentence paragraphs (the most obvious being the one in the lead and the one at the end of the article). The most obvious and unfortunately most difficult to explain problem is the prose. It's still very choppy, even though the paragraphs meet the technical non-extant limit of "three sentences." Three sentences is a minimum, used to prevent discrimination against short ideas that are better suited in small paragraphs. The actual limit is "the minimum number of paragraphs needed to maintain the flow of the article." Quite frankly, the prose in the "Television career" section is choppy to the point of being almost unreadable to me; it just doesn't flow. It's fact after fact after fact with no connecting ideas between them. I'm not saying articles have to be chronological, but the fact that it jumps all over the place certainly doesn't help the flow issues. In one sentence you discuss a show ending its run in 1958; in the next you're back to something he did in 1950. People write things chronologically because it's the easiest way to connect ideas in a smooth flow. That doesn't have to be the way that this article flows, but it does need some sort of flow.
If you really think that this isn't a problem, I suggest WP:GAR over renomination because if you resubmitted it like this it was passed, I would have submit it to WP:GAR myself just to make sure that more than one eye proves me wrong on this one, because in its current state I feel almost as if the "Television career" section requires an entire rewrite. Cheers, CP 05:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I shall get to work. FamicomJL (talk) 06:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Nominee again

I feel I have corrected everything Canadian Paul had asked me to to the best of my abilities, so I have re-nominated the article for Good Article candidancy. Let's hope it passes! FamicomJL (talk) 05:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

Since the article is so small i will happily copyedit it, although I'm not the best it's a start. this is what has been done thus far. Some other things;

  • Please re-upload the image Image:Garrymoore.jpg so it's less than 300x300 to qualify as fair use DONE
  • References need to be consistent, consider using the Template:cite web for all of them, as done with reference 3 and 4. DONE, as explained at the bottom.
  • Alphabetize categories DONE
  • Reference 13 should be lowercase DONE, I was only copying it exactly as the article put it, so I had no idea it had to be lowercase anyway. My bad.
  • add italics to Time and New York Magazine/daily/times in references. DONE M3tal H3ad (talk) 06:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
What I've finished so far has been noted. I have a question on the consistent references idea. Isn't cite web only used for references that come from newspaper articles? The ones that don't use the cite web template are websites. I'm not an expert on how to properly cite things... Still a newbie at this stuff. FamicomJL (talk) 21:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Cite web is for all websites. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I have finished. Is there anything else that needs to be done? Regards, FamicomJL (talk) 05:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Add |publisher= and add the website, also no need for (HTML) - every reference is HTML. SEE BELOWM3tal H3ad (talk) 02:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Straight man is a dab page DONE
  • Reference 3 has nothing mentioning The Garry Moore show was one of the most popular ever.DONE
  • You refer to him as Moore and Garry - just use Moore.DONE Another ce M3tal H3ad (talk) 02:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I shall get to work on the |publisher thing right away. FamicomJL (talk) 02:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
By website, did you mean the URL, or the title of the site? I made some the URL, and some the title, just in case. So if it's all URL, I'll just change the title ones, and vice versa. Thanks! FamicomJL (talk) 02:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
The name of the website, also for the reference TV ACRES put acres in lowercase - i understand you copied and pasted but it looks a lot more presentable in lowercase. M3tal H3ad (talk) 02:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
DONE. Anything else? FamicomJL (talk) 02:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I did another copyedit. There still may be some errors I'm passing this article after substantial improvement, goodjob. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)