Talk:Garden City, New York
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[edit] Demographics
It might be interesting to note how GC had deed restrictions prohibiting the sale of property to Jews, blacks and other minorities that were in effect through at least the 1950s or 1960s. This policy's legacy is reflected to this day in the village's nearly lily-white population. Has a black family ever lived in Garden City? Servants don't count -- hah!
People might be curious to read about the GC Police Department's history of mistreating blacks who happen to set foot in town (ie: the man falsely held as a "Brinks robber," or my hapless friend Anthony, was was picked up and driven to the Hempsted border while walking home from Lord & Taylor one night by a cop calling him "boy" in a moment right out of 1950s Alabama). It might also be insightful to recount how difficult it was for the Jewish temple on Nassau Blvd. to get permits from the village, while similar Christian sanctuaries were readily approved.
How about a reference to the (uncharged) murder of Ed Fonseca at the hands of GCPD officer John McNulty, who shot an unarmed man, fled the scene and then let Ed bleed out in the back seat of his cruiser during a bizarre 20-minute drive to a hospital 2-3 minutes from the shooting scene? How much was the settlement GC paid Fonseca's family? Never was disclosed, to the best of my knowledge.
On the subject of famous residents: Dave DeBuscherre (spelling? basketball hall of famer, longtime); Joe Namath (football hall of famer, shor-time); Denis Potvin (NHL hall of famer, entire career); Arthur Mercante (Jr. and Sr., famous boxing referees, longtime, Sr. still lives there); Telly Savalas (actor, and his brothers were raised there); Robert Redford (actor, briefly lived there, my mom met him at deBuscherre's house droppong son off from nursery school); Roone Arledge (spelling? 99% sure he was raised there); Bill Moyers (journalist, longtime past resident),
74.8.191.210 22:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
There were some articles a little while back about a minority advocacy NGO, ACORN, conducted tests to check for racial discrimination in Garden City and found that real estate agents would indeed discriminate on grounds of race. I'm a life-long Garden City resident, and I think this definitely should be mentioned, as the town is one of the most homogenous places I've ever been. I plan to add this info to the article and cite it. Relevant links to discrimination in town are: A New York Times article, a general article on discrimination on Long Island which gives special attention to Garden City.
- The term "lily-white" is derogatory and should certinally not be used in a statement which intends to point out Garden City's alleged racism. That is hypocritical and indicates that the author of that statement is biased, and shows that they have absolutely no validity behind their statements. If in fact there is proof of such allegations, by all means include that information with the appropriate sources. Otherwise, please stop vandalizing this page.
69.122.146.191 06:17, 25 February 2007 (UTC)GC11530
I'd like to reply to the above comments:
First off, let's get the quote right. I said "nearly lily-white." The modifier is worth noting, given your complaint. Omitting the modifier shows your "bias" against my comments and desire to portray them in the most unfavorable light possible. Not fair.
That said, I'm not sure "lily-white" (or "nearly lily-white") is "derogatory" in the way I used it. It is a simple description: white as a lily, which can be very white, indeed. Your comments about that phrase being "hypocritical" or "biased" might be more autobiographical than reflective on my past remarks. "Lily white" can be nothing more than an adjective, though, yes, it is particularly used to describe un-integrated populations. Like Garden City's.
You demand proof GC is "nearly lily-white," which is included in the very article I was commenting on. It cites the following demographic figures: 94.21% White, 1.23% African American. I'm sorry, but methinks a village which is 95+ percent white (after you add the Hispanic whites) and only 1.23% black (and almost all health aides/servants, I'd wager, not homeowners) sounds "nearly lily-white" to me. Perhaps you disagree.
I didn't "vandalize" anything. I merely made a comment in the "discussion" forum, which is what I thought this venue was for. Garden City's deed restrictions, and their lingering impact on the "nearly lily-white" population mix there to this day, would seem to be a valid topic for discussion. Perhaps you are "biased" and disagree. Perhaps you somehow think Wikipedia is the "feel good" encyclopedia that should be free of critical comments. Perhaps it is better to just regurgitate the pablum the village provided Wikipedia rather than take a hard, objective look at the place's history. So, Garden City is an "Ideal" place to live with a "renowned" school system (etc. etc.). Are those entirely "objective" comments? The article is littered with them.
You want more "proof" of Garden City's checkered racial history? The Village Voice had an article about GC, its police force and racism about 15 years ago. You might want ot look it up.
It might be insightful that the "notable residents" I submitted weren't added. What was wrong with them? Were you "biased" against my suggestions? I hedged on Arledge (could have sworn my mom said he went to h.s. with her), but the others all definitely lived there. I even met some of them.
Oh! And I forgot one notable resident: Actor Ralph Waite (The Waltons, Broadway), who was one of the founders of the Garden City Community Church on Stewart Avenue.
Humbly submitted by a lily-white boy who was a third-generation Garden City resident who lived there the first 22 years of his life and still has friends there. 74.8.191.210 19:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
An addendum:
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition, 2000.
lily-white
1. White as a lily. 2. Beyond reproach; blameless. 3. Informal Excluding or seeking to exclude Black people.
No mention of “derogatory,” but seems definition three could be argued to apply to Garden City. 74.8.191.210 19:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
141.161.170.111 01:02, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
YOU CERTAINLY LOVE USING QUOTES!! I love Garden City, and I am proud of how much effort and time ( not to mention extreme taxes!) have been invested into the appearance, safety and prestige of the town. Truly and ideal place to raise a family!
141.161.170.111 01:02, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Elizabeth Taylor has something to do with GC? Can you cite a reference?
[edit] Notable People
I am a little unsure on what to do with a certain notable person from Garden City. I want to provide a link to Rudy Guiliani, who lived in Garden City and became mayor of New York City. In the group of Notable Residents, I am not sure whether to place his name because he is not a resident anymore.--Screwball23 01:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Rudy Giuliani lived in Garden City South, which although it shares a zipcode, is not a part of the Village of Garden City, and does not share its school disctrict.
Also, perhaps "Notable Residents" could be changed to something encompassing both people like Nelson Demille, who were born elsewhere but now live in GC, and people like John Tesh, who grew up there but now live elsewhere.
I'd like to add Susan Lucci as one of the notable people who live in G.C.
- She is already listed under "Notable residents" Nposs 16:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
____________________________________________________________________________
Stating Garden City is the "best" village is quite subjective and should be omitted.
The history of Garden City was copy-pasted from the city website and read more like a tourism brochure. Garden City's history isn't as pretty and clean as was described.
No part of Garden City is in North Hempstead. Roosevelt Field and the areas east of the village that use the Garden City post office are in an unincorporated area of the Town of Hempstead. There is no entity known as East Garden City. They use the village name but do not pay village taxes. HGLI2000 03:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the de facto border of the Town of North Hempstead is the Main Line of the LIRR. When Old Country Road ends, the Northernmost border of Garden City becomes the train tracks, which seperate it from Mineola and New Hyde Park. Railroad Avenue, which lies just North of the tracks is within the Incoporated Village, and so, part of Garden City actually does find itself in the Town of North Hempstead.
Also, in reference to you comment on East Garden City, it acutally is a place; a CDP or Census Designated Place. Since there is no formal, organized or incoporated government to administer East Garden City, the Town of Hempstead Supervisor, does. But, while you are wrong at that point, you are right when you say that East Garden City is not required to pay village Taxes to Garden City.
Perhaps you should research before you make inacurate comments in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.122.146.191 (talk • contribs)
Rudy Giuliani has no relation to the village of Garden City. He was raised in Garden City South, which is a separate entity/school district from the village of Garden City. Also, Garden City is in the Town of Hempstead not between North Hempstead and Hempstead.
[edit] External links
The external links on this article have gotten out of hand. Guidelines on external links can be found at WP:External links. More importantly, "Wikipedia is not a directory of links" WP:NOT. I encourage those people who regularly edit this article to discuss which links should be kept. Unfortunately, the vast majority will have to be removed. Nposs 03:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- Since my previous comment, the only action has been the addition of more links. Please read WP:NOT#REPOSITORY and reconsider this action. Nposs 06:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is also not a directory (which is what this page has become) WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory. Further readdition of inappropriate links without discussion will be viewed as vandalism. You are invited to discuss links here before adding them. Make sure editors reach a consensus before adding any more links. Nposs 13:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] History and Description trainwreck
This section is an atrocity. It reads like something the Garden City Tourism Bureau might release: "It was a flat, barren meadow -- as clean a sheet of paper as any developer could hope for. No hills. No forest to clear or swamps to fill." No fuss, no muss, just set it and forget it! But if unencyclopædic content just won't do it for you, there's always heavily POV paragraphs to set your mind at ease: "Although there are a myriad of reasons which make Garden City an ideal place to raise a family, the crown jewel, so to speak, is the nationally renowned public school district."
Now, I can see a local historian put quite a lot of work into this article. However, brevity is the soul of wit! And please, if you're reading this page, read up on Wikipedia's style. Heck, just click the random article button a few times and get a feel for the place. I would hate to delete so much, but unless it's cited and made NPOV, it really oughtn't remain. Ipsenaut 02:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I work hard at removing POV, irrelevant information. Could someone explain why my edits have been undone? Thank you. Ipsenaut 06:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Are you, or were you at one point, a resident of Garden City? 69.122.146.191 01:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)gc11530
I am not, nor have I ever been, a resident of Garden City. Ipsenaut 18:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
So, why concern yourself with this entry? Are you paid to patrol reciently edited pages, or do you do it for fun?
- Your are in clear violation of several important Wikipedia guidelines. First and foremost - WP:AFG - assume good faith. You do not own this article. Other editors have made good faith efforts to improve it and bring it in line with guidelines concerning "point of view" WP:POV and copyright WP:COPYVIO. Please reconsider your current, disruptive pattern of editing. You clearly care greatly about this article. Why not put your energy into putting the copyrighted material into your own words so that it no longer violates the law? Everyone is welcome to edit Wikipedia, but edit warring, violation of guidelines, and mistreatment of other editors can lead to a permanent block on your ability to edit. Nposs 00:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I fail to see how asking a question can be construed as "mistreatment of other editors," would you care to elaborate?
- Your insinuation that the above editor should not edit the article because he or she is not from the city is uncivil (WP:CIV). Nposs 00:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that my statement was "uncivil," but that is your opinion, which you are entitled to. Like most on-line conversations, words can be misconstrued when the recipient of those words can not hear the tone and inflection of which they are stated, or in this case, the intent with which they were written. You are wrong to think and assume that my sentiments are “uncivil.” I was merely trying to point out that this individual who is not, in fact, a resident of Garden City is not an authority of the village. I do not claim to know every minute detail of the history of Garden City, however, being a life-long resident, there is a certain level of familiarity that I have that this other individual does not, and could never have. Unlike those of us who do live here, how can he discredit the statements that residents make? Upholding copyright laws is one thing, but to question the validity of our villages traditions and folklore is something that must be chastised. Read the published books about Garden City, talk to our village historian, maybe even pay a visit to the Garden City Historical society if it is that important to comment on and edit this article. But until then, I would limit those corrections to basic grammatical errors and Wiki style. It would probably be a good idea not to edit any of the information without the proper background knowledge.
- I took pains to limit my contribution to cleaning up matters of NPOV or other unencyclopædic content. If you care to cite any factual changes in which I erred, please do so. In any case, I apologize if I seem to have wronged you or your hometown. However, I believe you would be wise to avoid articles you know have emotional ties to you. I appreciate your knowledge on Garden City, but if you cannot put this knowledge in NPOV form, nor allow others to do so for you, you won't add anything to this page nor enjoy Wikipedia much at all. Ipsenaut 05:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Get off your high horse, buddy. Don't act as if you own wiki... it's a public website. Perhaps you should invest your time and effort into something that you are not as emotionally charged about. kthnxbye.
[edit] Copyright and NPOV
I have removed – again – text that was lifted from this page. It is not to be replaced. See WP:COPY if I'm not being clear enough.
I've also replaced the {{npov}} tag. Statements like "Although there are a myriad of reasons which make Garden City an ideal place to raise a family, the crown jewel, so to speak, is the nationally renowned public school district." are nowhere near neutral and have to be made encyclopedic. Until someone rewrites those paragraphs, the tag is appropriate. ... discospinster talk 20:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you. I have done my best to revert all the POV text. Right now, the most outstanding problem is probably the first sentence of the article's History section. I believe it could be restructured further, with the post-WWII information integrated into the broader "History" section. I removed a lot of the external links mentioned above, as well as the links to 'historical photographs'. I would not want to host images only to have them linked by wikipedia. One, if it had merit, but four from one site is unreasonable. If there are any further reversions to the POV incarnation of this article, an admin can easily protect the page and ban the IP of the resident armchair historian. Ipsenaut 02:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] map?
Is there a reason this article doesn't feature a map showing where Garden City is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.0.37.194 (talk) 15:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
