Talk:Gambrinus liga

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Logo slavia.gif

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BetacommandBot 05:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

The name >Gambrinus Liga< cannot say anything to people outside the Czech republic. It should be First czech football league or so instead (Look at other leagues all over the globe)...--StaraBlazkova 19:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no move. JPG-GR (talk) 06:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Gambrinus liga → Czech Liga — Gambrinus is the sponsor name, the name was known as Gambrinus 1. Liga or 1. česká fotbalová liga. Although česká fotbalová liga is another thing, the title of the highest division should be Czech Liga, as per Portuguese Liga. —Matthew_hk tc 06:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Oppose I'm used to seeing the current title in English language texts, which is the deciding factor per WP:UE. Proposed title is additionally ambiguous as regards leagues for other sports. Knepflerle (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I also strongly doubt you'd see the strange inter-language hybrid Czech Liga - it would be Czech league if anything, and hence the problems of disambiguation. I have not come across it in much reading. Knepflerle (talk) 13:14, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose moving to "Czech Liga", though I agree it needs moving away from the current title as Gambrinus is a sponsor name. What's wrong with moving to 1. česká fotbalová liga? - MTC (talk) 06:31, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments: Matthew_hk tc 06:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Requested move (2nd)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus on name to move to. Please continue to discuss this situation and if consensus is reached for a new name, propose at WP:RM. JPG-GR (talk) 15:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Gambrinus liga → ? — Gambrinus liga is not a good name, either translate it per WP:UE or using 1. česká fotbalová liga as per Czech version of wikipedia. —Matthew_hk tc 10:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Move to 1. česká fotbalová liga - It appears to be the correct name according to the Czech Wikipedia. - MTC (talk) 11:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
    • That is the correct predominant usage in Czech language texts, but not in English language ones. WP:UE says explicitly that we should use what is used predominantly in English language texts only. Knepflerle (talk) 11:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Move to Czech First League - "1. česká fotbalová liga" is not an option as it does not comply with WP:UE. The current title is also not an option as it is a sponsored name. Therefore, I would opt for a translation of "1. česká fotbalová liga", which would be "Czech First League". – PeeJay 12:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
    Surely "1. česká fotbalová liga" translates to "1st Czech football league"? And while you could rephrase that to "Czech first league", I don't see why you would add capitals for "First" and "League". We also have lots of football league articles at their untranslated name; Ligue 1, La Liga, Serie A, etc. Are you in favor of moving all those too? - MTC (talk) 13:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
MTC, you have hit the nail on the head. La Liga and Serie A are the terms used by English speakers in English language texts, and therefore what we should use by WP:UE which says that we copy their usage. What is more English than what English speakers actually use? We do not invent English language terms by translating words into phrases not used by English speakers, and that is why we have the policy we have. Knepflerle (talk) 14:07, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose move : Gambrinus liga is what this league is called in English sources, and so what we should call the article by WP:UE. We do not overrule this just by saying "this is not a good name" without justification. The sponsor argument does not overrule English usage either - see Veltins-Arena, Emirates Stadium, Suwon Samsung Bluewings... if a change in sponsor leads to change in English usage, then we change the article then. We do not invent "English" usage that is not used by English speakers in the meantime. Knepflerle (talk) 14:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Move to Czech 1. liga or 1. liga (Czech Republic) to use the league's proper short name minus sponsorship (per UEFA). пﮟოьεԻ 57 21:56, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
    • We do not remove sponsorship if the sponsor name is part of the predominant English usage - this is an unambiguous consequence of WP:UE, see the examples above - where should Emirates Stadium or Allianz Arena go? The name you propose is not only ambiguous between sports, but little used in English - English does not use a dot as part of its ordinal convention. Compare [1] to [2] - the proposed title is neologistic invented usage that would be barely seen outside Wikipedia. Knepflerle (talk) 11:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:
As Per Premier League, it is NOT Barclays Premier League , so try to use a better article name. The Liga often refer as 1. Gambrinus liga and the second level just 2. Liga inside Czech Rep.(1. liga is a local name, as English won't call the full name of Premier League but for other, Scottish Premier League), UEFA.com use Czech Republic's 1. Liga to avoid the sponsor. Name such as First (Football) League of (the) Czech Republic or Czech Republic First League should be fulfil WP:UE. Matthew_hk tc 11:31, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
This move failed only two days ago! Is this a case of WP:POINT, nominating again so soon, trying and trying until you get your own way? Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's what it looks like to me. - fchd (talk) 11:06, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't see the problem with nominating it again so soon if the target is different, the current title is clearly wrong. - MTC (talk) 11:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
You have completely misunderstood WP:UE - it states that you should copy English usage, not invent terms that "look more English" but are not used by English speakers. Knepflerle (talk) 14:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
yeah, now i cannot understand the rationale behind Coimbra Academic Association. Matthew_hk tc 05:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.