User talk:Fyslee/Quackery definitions throughout history

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Copied from Talk:Quackery#Actual_Definition to give some background

[edit] Actual Definition

This article is not only a ranting diatribe, it is completely false. I have been attempting to insert the historical interpretation of the definition of the word "quack": - "The modern use of the word "quack" traces its roots back to the early days of American dentistry. In the 1830's there were two distinct groups that dentists fell into, those who were in favor of mercury amalgams and those opposed. Those who opposed its use formed their own society called the American Society of Dental Surgeons, while the amalgam supporters formed the American Dental Association. Dentists who belonged to the Society referred to their peers who used mercury as "quacks", which is short for quackenslaver the Germanic word for mercury. The historical origin of this derogatory medical term is commonly overlooked."

This is a fact whether or not it is appreciated, and whether or not it serves the purposes of whoever wrote this particular diatribe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.220.49.194 (talk • contribs) 19:37, May 16, 2007 (UTC)

You haven't provided a source for your statement. Online dictionaries seem to support the consensus statement in the article, more or less, quack is short for quacksalver which is an archaic Dutch word for charlatan . Present German for mercury is Quecksilber , which may have derived from quacksilber or quackslaver, but almost certainly not quackenslaver. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 22:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
How many sources would you like? The original use of the word is tied to Paracelsus who used mercury (quacksalber or quicksilver) to cure conditions like syphilis. [1] It is well established that the German word for mercury, quacksalber, was used as a derogatory term that described the healer's medium of choice, which was then shortened into 'quack'. This medieval usage was borrowed by the American Society of Dental Surgeons to describe their mercury happy peers, which is what brought the term into its modern use. [2] In its modern usage, it is essentially a description revived solely for the ADA. Now can you see why the correct history and usage is so obscured? [3]
I think this guy gives a pretty adequate summary:
  • "Quack is from the German word for mercury or quicksilver — quacksalber. The term was applied to Paracelsus and his followers because of their extensive use of this metal. Originally the word quack was applied to those who poisoned their patients with mercury. Now it is falsely applied to all who refuse to poison their patients. Every intelligent reader will readily recognize to whom the term really belongs." [4]
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.215.233.58 (talk • contribs)
You are just parroting modern, deceptive, historical revisionism commonly used among promoters of anti-vaccination and anti-mercury viewpoints. You really don't have to believe their propaganda. It is not true. There is no question that there are people who make that false claim, but to change the definition you're going to have to provide historically accurate sources. -- Fyslee/talk 13:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Please remember to log-in instead of using at least these three IPs to make tag-team nonsensical edits:
-- Fyslee/talk 13:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
With the possible exception of the 1861 book in German referenced by one of the references the rotating anon provided, these are all alternative medicine articles, some clearly self-published. Why wouldn't an alt-med journal have an alt-derivation for the words. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 14:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

That thought could be developed into an article if enough V & RS are available. If any anti-vaxers think they can then (mis)use Wikipedia to rewrite history, they will find that Wikipedia's law of unintended consequences" applies:

"If you write in Wikipedia about yourself, your group, [your pet idea] or your company, once the article is created, you have no right to control its content, and no right to delete it outside our normal channels; we will not delete it simply because you don't like it. Any editor may add material to it within the terms of our content policies. If there is anything publicly available on a topic that you would not want included in an article, it will probably find its way there eventually; more than one user has created an article only to find himself presented in a poor light long-term by other editors. Therefore, don't create promotional or other articles lightly, especially on subjects you care about. Either edit neutrally or don't edit at all. NPOV is absolute and non-negotiable." -- ["pet idea" added by Fyslee...;-)]

They will find that the Wikipedia article will then become a huge exposé of the deceptive historical revisionism practiced by anti-vaccinationists. Once the article has been started, its fate will be out of their hands. It would contain old definitions, dictionary definitions, modern revisionistic and propagandistic definitions, and definitions adapted to our modern cyberage situation. I can imagine that "Quackery definitions throughout history" might be an interesting article. -- Fyslee/talk 15:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)