User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise/Archive 12

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Top Gear

If you could, please move Top Gear (1977 TV Series) to Top Gear (original format). User:Ncma has decided to for some odd reason after a consensus was established long ago to change the article name. I tried myself but it seems he/she has really screwed it up. El Greco(talk) 17:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Please???? El Greco(talk) 21:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Ah, sorry I didn't react at once, I don't normally do TV series a lot. In this case, I don't feel entirely confident to judge at a glance whether there was a real consensus either way, so I'm leaving things open. But I have deleted and freshly recreated the redirect from the "original format" title, so you can now technically move it back yourself again. Please do that only if you feel confident there is consensus to do so. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Future. That's how the two shows have been ever since I've seen them, as Top Gear (current format) and Top Gear (original format). El Greco(talk) 22:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Aegean Macedonians

Wikipedia: Articles for deletion/Aegean Macedonians. Contentious issue, but deletion? BalkanFever 09:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I am prepared to compromise but the greek users arent. Even though they havent even added any information to the article. P m kocovski (talk) 12:55, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Speaking about my self, honestly, there is a lot I can add to this article, but then again, if I do so, it will be like as if I approve it, which I don’t. The Cat and the Owl (talk) 19:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Well apart from everything else, this could singlehandedly win the POV title of the year contest. "Aegean" AND "Macedonians"? Please, this is way too ridiculous.--   Avg    16:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Removal of comments

I don't have a problem with you removing my comments from the talk page, but I have a problem with you leaving the comments where Avg, all so abruptly, refers to ethnic Macedonians as Skopjans and Slavomacedonians. Köbra Könverse 08:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Kiro Gligorov image

hi, i was just wondering why this image 200px cant be used on Ethnic Macedonians page?? P m kocovski (talk) 12:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Because it's non-free. Only to be used under exceptional conditions, and where absolutely necessary. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Alright, now i get it P m kocovski (talk) 06:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

RfC

Yes, thank yuo. I am aborting it. Tis madness. Boodlesthecat Meow? 20:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Any suggestions on your part as to how I could minimise the apparent "war" between him and me would be more than welcome. I can assure you that all my conduct at Wikipedia is in good faith. Thanks. --Ludvikus (talk) 20:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry guys, I haven't been following your issue at all. Right now I have no idea what this is even about. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Ela

Waz up man, long time.Kinda miss your talks lol. Hope you are having a great time.--Taulant23 (talk) 23:44, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Emetko's user page -- needs attention, I think

Hi there, from what I can gather, this user was falsely accused of being a sock puppet for someone, and blocked indefinitely, but the next day, unblocked by you (hence this missive). Yet, his user page contains only the template announcing indefinite blocking. I hesitate to remove it myself, as it is is after all someone else's user page. But as you were the undoing admin, could you do the honors? I discovered this by following the user's signature from his current contribution, hoping to see a Babel template, but all I found was this. Best wishes, --Mareklug talk 07:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

That's gone too far

The whole canvassing issue has gone too far. Once is OK, twice is not that bad. But it's continuing and I think it's kind of mixed up with sockpuppetry already. Is there a way to check Kadeshli (talk · contribs), Alekishere (talk · contribs) and Fatmanonthehorse (talk · contribs)? It's not like long gone users come back and vite within 30 minutes of each other on a nomination for deletion. Further the canvassing on En.wiki continues. And to hide it Raso has written it in German [1]. I think action needs to be taken now. There off all rules and guidelines and were warned on a number of occasions not do so. --Laveol T 09:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

hehehe you are funny Laveol. Cry baby cry.--Raso mk (talk) 09:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I already told you to stop mocking me and calling me such stuff. --Laveol T 09:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Tsourkpk twice: [2] [3]. BalkanFever 09:39, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't care about Tsourkpk - they were warned not to that stuff. And the new old users are a clear evidence what's going on. --Laveol T 09:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
did you? Ok i will stop. :-) Peace man \/ --Raso mk (talk) 09:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
So essentially, you want Macedonian users blocked for canvassing but not Greek users. BalkanFever 09:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The level of offense? --Laveol T 09:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

(un)Amazing, though. Users who have been inactive for a year coming back to life! Let's hope that they'll be cooperative when it comes to editing the article, though. It's quite a dishonest move, to be fair. It almost makes me feel like changing my "Delete or Merge" to "STRONG DELETE" ;) Aah, the Balkans. 3rdAlcove (talk) 12:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

MacedonianBoy and Raso mk

Here I come again - I know this is turning like a habit, but what can I do about it. I have a real problem with the two editors that somehow happen to come to each others aid when it's really needed. But that's not the matter. I was trying to get to th reason as to why MacedonianBoy was constantly adding a POV tag on the article Grigor Parlichev. I did not get any real answer to my question. You can see the whole discussion on Talk:Grigor Parlichev#Reasons for the tag. I tried to act in appropriate way given the previous problems I had with MacedonianBoy. Well, it just didn't work out. I repetedly asked for valid reasons and didn't get any. I'd be satisfied with anything, but this is just another Bulgarian propaganda, but it was the only thing I got. And since it started to look more like a forum (again) I asked them to stop [4] with the forum stuff. And what I got was some attacks on my contributions (again) by both of them. Since that is an article talkpage and I had ask them to stop with the chit-chat, I don't think their comments about me [5][6] compile with Wiki behaviour standards. And since this is obviously becoming some sort of a practice by those two contributors, I ask you to warn them in some way. I mean, I warned them that this is not appropriate on a number of times and they don't seem willing to listen to me. The only one, they would listen to, is you. So: Help?!--Laveol T 22:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

The (ethnic) Macedonian crowd seems to be going wild, generally... 3rdAlcove (talk) 22:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
I'll take that as a compliment! P m kocovski (talk) 11:18, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I meant wild as in "rabid animals", not "partying wild". ;) 3rdAlcove (talk) 12:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Must be the full moon. Actually, make that sun. BalkanFever 12:50, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm not complaining. At least it's not a blue lio...sun with a golden background. 3rdAlcove (talk) 12:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
You cant blame the wild animals! :)! P m kocovski (talk) 08:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Template symbol

Dear Future, I would like to inform you that according to the voting results, we have are ready to put the symbol that took the most votes and which is the most used symbol by ethnic Macedonians world wide. I'm just waiting for your approval here - Template_talk:Ethnic_Macedonians#Recapitulation. Regards. --Revizionist (talk) 13:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

"Honest Reporting" alert, criticising WP anti-wikilobby action

Thought you might want to see this, from aggressive media-response alert site Honest Reporting, on the subject of the recent blocking of six users for wikilobbying:

Exposed - Anti-Israeli Subversion on Wikipedia

It's based on some further pieces here.

I've started a thread at WP:AN. -- Jheald (talk) 14:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Template:Etnhic Macedonians

Hello! I want to inform you that AVG is vandalizing the template again, maybe for third time. Accourding to the voting that we have done recently, the Star of Kutleš must be on the template, but he is so smart and do not want to get it. He is putting the Coat of Arm of RM. Please tell him something to stop offending me and to vandalize the pages. And if you can to put the Kutleš Star it would be wonderful. Thanks a lot, regards --MacedonianBoy (talk) 18:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

What's "Star of Kutleš"? --Tsourkpk (talk) 19:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Take a dictionary, a Macedonian one!--MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:07, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
This is the English Wikipedia.--   Avg    19:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Than take English one, for Macedonian toponims.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The place is called Vergina, it is in Greece. The symbol is called Vergina Sun, it was found in Greece. Live with it.--   Avg    19:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Тоа е Егејска Македонија, Македонија--MacedonianBoy (talk) 20:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
He's not talking to you, how exactly is he offending you? Did you take those words from me? --Laveol T 18:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a joke, Fut.Perf. either put some reason to these guys or we would have to go the arbitration way again. They try to impose a result that came from obvious canvassing and sockpuppeting. --   Avg    19:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Εδώ να σε δω, μπαρμπα-Γιώργο. =P 3rdAlcove (talk) 19:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Α ρε Καραγκιοζάκο μ'. I'll see you guys all over at WP:AE#Macedonia. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Εεεπ, με έβρισες ή μου φάνηκε; 3rdAlcove (talk) 00:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Εεε, πως αλλιώς θελς να σι κραίνου τώρα, ανιψούδι μ'? ;-P Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Offendings

Please take a look at this page [[7]] and especially on the last section of AVG's and of the other Greeks comments. They are so offending and rude. They should be blocked not the Macedonian users. We have never used words that offend them such as Sub-Saharians but they do. I think you will take this in consideration. Regards--MacedonianBoy (talk) 21:41, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

"We have never used words that offend them such as Sub-Saharians". You mean you did it behind their backs. Add the Bulgarian "Tatars" to that. Comparing Slavomacedonian to Sub-saharan in the context they are used, especially. Amazing. Stop acting like the oppressed minority. 3rdAlcove (talk) 23:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

User:3rdAlcove

User:3rdAlcove told me to "fuck off" [8], because I didn't listen to his unsourced POV-advice that Macedonian Rainbow party members "are not sure what to call themselves." He also thinks I broke the 3RR rule. Polibiush (talk) 00:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Kindly, though. That's something, right? You did break the 3RR rule actually since you reverted 4-5 times. I didn't exactly revert you because of the Rainbow members, eh (though they're honestly confused about what they think they are; still, I even added a "See Also")? Start a friggin section on the talk page if you disagree instead of constantly reverting. 3rdAlcove (talk) 00:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
I didn't revert, you had a problem with the Rainbow members, but you reverted the numbers from Britannica without knowing, so I put it back. Hmmm, it seems you do not understand how wikipedia works, do you know what a POV is? What you are claiming is you own personal opinion that is based on nothing. These people are leaders of the Macedonian minority party "Rainbow", they are Macedonian. Polibiush (talk) 00:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Nope, I directed you to the talk page of Macedonians (ethnic group). If you disagree, you should start a new section at AM. Britannica is a tertiary source in case you forget, btw. I couldn't give a toss about the self-identification of prominent Vinozhito members, though based on what I've read (ie the wild changes in their self-identification) I removed their names and added a See Also. It was about everything else, actually. Now be so kind as to start a section. Oh, and add the Rainbow party members back in if you feel sooo inclined. Obviously you reverted, 4-5 times. 3rdAlcove (talk) 00:39, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
You don't get the message, do you? What do you mean "based on what I've read" ??? What have you read???????? You are obviously mis-using Wikipedia guidelines. Now look, these people are Macedonians, and Britannica is an encyclopedia. If you have a problem, then start a discussion in their own respective talk pages. Polibiush (talk) 00:48, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Yawn. It's you who is not getting the message. I couldn't give a toss about them.
Britannica is a tertiary source and a similar discussion took place in Macedonians (ethnic group). Take a look then start a new section. Your Macedonian comrades (though intentionally(?) obtuse; like you are acting right now) seem to have agreed. OK?!?!?!!!!!!??????????????????3rdAlcove (talk) 01:03, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Look at the second foot note. There are a lot of sources that verify the same estimate, not just Britannica. Polibiush (talk) 01:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Christ, man. Stop ignoring me completely and take a look at the talk page I mentioned. Far too late atm. Take it easy, everyone. ;) 3rdAlcove (talk) 01:26, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Let's do the math: revert #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, and a whopping #11. Wow!--Tsourkpk (talk) 04:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


vandalism

Take a look here. 4 reverts. Bitte reagieren. danke--Raso mk (talk) 09:35, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Not yet approaching 3RR. Series of edits count only as one in terms of reverting. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:48, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Naming lameless

Well, every time some changes on Liancourt Rocks occurs, some sanctions tend to follow. Jimknock (talk · contribs) edited Sea of Japan/East sea on the article which suits the naming lameless[9], so I restored to the original and gave him an advice from a good faith even though he is obviously not a new editor.[10] This small notice is to prevent any possible confusion like the previous case. Thanks.--Appletrees (talk) 14:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Pulevski

I suppose so, as long as any description is articulated along the lines of the published book, and not according to post-WWII 'revisionist' interpretations that transpose modern terms on past text, in order to assuage current concerns... Politis (talk) 15:48, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

A fleeting discourse analysis of the article shows that it was created on irredentist grounds, to verbally appropriate Greek Macedonia into the concept of a greater Makedonija. Also, the Ouranio Toxo / Rainbow party does not identify with this terminology. It looks like a professional hit :-) than an article. Also, just look at the links, many of them have more to do with blogs than worthy of quotation. I would be interested in your view. Politis (talk) 17:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Unblock intention

Please do not unblock, the block was made after an ironclad CU was performed, please contact a CU before acting further. MBisanz talk 08:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I do not doubt the identity, or the CU that established it. I doubt whether the discussion has so far established a reasonable consensus that there was abusive sockpuppetry of such an order that an indef block on the main account is necessary. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:03, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks like there's been one benefit at least: the rate of posts to that thread has slowed down since the template got added. DurovaCharge! 09:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Mistake

Your mistake is evident here because IPs of user PIO were different: no 151.70.... or 151.67.85.227 were used by PIO. I am an informatic and I know edit war by user DIREKTOR/AlasdairGreen27 on that article. Regards.--Ciolone (talk) 12:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

He constantly rotates his IP, among others to this one. Anyway, the guy's manner or expression was identical. I know I appear biased in this matter, but its plain obvious. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 13:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

DieWeisseRose: "That group and its archive have been deleted."

have you been able to find out when? there are 12 members belonging to wikiforpalestine who criteria for belonging required proof of pro-palestinian/anti-israel bias, actively engaged at wiki. i am not going to let this pass. you banned blocked me for some juxtapostion and did not even consult my posts to understand where i was coming from. now you are playing mickey mouse with diewiesserose knowing full well that that person promoted wikiforpalestine: definitely a statement about what wiki is: a brutish clumsy entity infected with viruses that it has absolutely no control over.

Hadith 4:269 Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

and selfdeception is self deceit. yuk Davidg (talk) 04:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

P

Say, I wonder if you could help me out with moving Yugoslav partisans to "Yugoslav Partisans". I started reorganizing the article and I can't fix the title (overwrite), could you lend a hand? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 13:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Why would you want it capitalised? It's not a proper name, is it? Common nouns in descriptive phrases should remain lowercase, according to our house style. Am I missing something? Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's the thing: the "People's Liberation Army and Partisan Detachments of Yugoslavia" were an organization/movement generally known as the "Partisans", with "Yugoslav" being used to differentiate from partisans (military). In other words, this is their common short name. For example, you have the Chetniks article title, that does not need to be written in the form "Yugoslav Chetniks" since there are no other non-Yugoslav Chetniks. One can easily compare "Chetniks" with "Partisans".
To put it differently, there were many resistance militias in occupied Yugoslavia, i.e. partisans, while members of the People's Liberation Army and Partisan Detachments of Yugoslavia are known as the Partisans. Also, the Partisans did not for a significant portion of the war function as partisans in the strategic sense of the word, consisting of several hundred thousand men and fighting by conventional (WW2) warfare. The distinction appears significant to me. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm not sure you have me convinced, but I've cleaned up the history of the target page so that it will no longer prevent you from making the move yourself, if you are confident it's correct and consensus. Up to you. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

k, thanks. I sure hope there won't be any objections to my good-faith move... --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Heya

I have just been called a 'troll' by this user: User talk:BalkanFever here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Aegean_Macedonians Members have been blocked for far less. Can he please be punished as he is becoming incresingly more offensive. I have seen you discipline others so i came here first, he has been blocked before for this insulting behaviour and name calling. Reaper7 (talk) 14:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Maps

Hi! Since you are an expert on maps, I would like to ask you a favor when and if you have time. I am rewriting the Roman-Persian Wars article, and I saw two excellent maps in the German wiki, that would enrich the English article, Bild:Julian vs Persien.png and Bild:Justinian Byzanz.png. Could you translate them in English? It would be a great addition to the English article. Cheers and thanks in advance!--Yannismarou (talk) 16:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Those are fine maps, for sure. There's only a technical problem: they are bitmap graphics, and I know of no way of separating the writing from the background. They don't constitute logically different levels in the file, as far as I can see. I'd have to manually erase every piece of writing, pixel by pixel, replacing the black with an approximation of the background color around it. Or I'd have to re-do them in the SVG format I use, from scratch. But that would be quite a bit of work, and I couldn't do the geographic relief the way it's done there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Hm ... I see ... Maybe I should turn to the maps' creators.--Yannismarou (talk) 18:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, they could certainly do that much easier, in the original software they used for making it. Unfortunately the creator seems not to have been active for a longish while. Let me know if you need someone to make inquiries on de-wiki. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
A solution would be to use a legend explaining which colours correspond to which states, ie Yellow - Sassanids, Orange - Sassanid vassals, Blue - Roman Empire, Purple - Acquisitions by Justinian and so on. Are the Parthians customarily considered a "Persian" empire, anyhow? 3rdAlcove (talk) 18:21, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Template:Ethnic Macedonians=

Hi, i was just wondering if you could unblock the ethnic macedonians template? I had some more information to add to it. (nothing to do with the flag issue). P m kocovski (talk) 13:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it's better to keep it protected at least for a few more days, until tempers cool off. Just tell me what you want to add and I can put it in for you. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)\\
Ok thanks, under the national awakening and above the liberation war could you add Ilinden Uprising and next to islam in the religion section Judaism thanks. P m kocovski (talk) 22:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, yeh. I didnt mean to be taunting him it thats what your implying. Its the frist time ive actually taken notice of it, and i thought that the whole collection of POV's, 3RR etc. Would make a glood laugh. I didnt mean to taunt him as you implied. P m kocovski (talk) 01:28, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Military operation

Hi, I wonder if you would take a look at this matter: [11], thanks --DIREKTOR (TALK) 16:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Again Future. It seems I'm in the Balkans again. The basic problem here is like this. I am reviewing and editing all the Eastern Front articles. The process roughly includes reading, weeding out, and referencing what's there. Now, I have no problems with collaborating with other editors (and I have) as long as they understand that shuffling my words around, giving prominence to their POV, and using the first thing that pops up in a search engine as reference is not on. And this is largely the problem with this new editor. He seems to refuse understanding that if one referenced article in Wikipedia says something, it is also true for another article dealing with the same subject. He also needs to understand that Wikipedia guidelines do not over-ride sourced historical material. We do after all edit a reference work, and not a company procedures manual. In any case, looking forward to chatting again later. I am far more relaxed this time then during the Romanian interregnum --mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 16:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I was not "shuffling your words", the article was nigh illegible ([12]). And Vojska.net is a perfectly reliable source, used and accepted all over Yugoslavia-related Wiki. Anyway, leave this for the article. I just wanted to give a short heads-up... --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:17, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Α' Δημοτικού

Here's your culprit. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 13:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Heh, before I clicked that link I was half afraid you'd found out it had been myself. :-) (Don't worry, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Das kann nich wahr sein

Pls look here. Zwei mal. regards--Raso mk (talk) 16:00, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Κρίμα

Speaking of crimes against the English language, what was this all about? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 16:29, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

It's better. Avoiding all that usual trouble about "Macedonian" vs "Slavic Macedonian" etc etc., plus having all the silly explanation to do why there's suddenly talk of "Solun" and "Voden" when we (of course) say "Thessaloniki" everywhere else. State right at the outset that we are talking "in the context of Slavic dialectology", and all the problems go away. Of course, if your famed sense of aesthetics sees some need for stylistic tightening, be my guest. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:34, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
No, the essence of the edit is fine. I was referring to your "more elegant" English: "It is called after...", "It is traditionally spoken in an area covering also Veria (Ber), Giannitsa (Enidže Vardar) and the surrounding region up to Thessaloniki (Solun) and the Aegean Sea, as well as stretching into a small part..." ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 16:40, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Eh, I often don't find time enough to tweak my English for optimum style before hitting save these days. Go for it. (But at least you won't find me mechanically cramming repetitive syntactic garbage into articles just for the sake of political correctness; I mean, that's something, isn't it.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:44, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
You're entitled to your opinion. All I'm saying is that you should probably think twice before belittling other users' English, especially that of a native speaker. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 16:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Template

What was the template you should put on an image that has a false PD-old tag. I tried removing it, but is this the right action. See this--Laveol T 21:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Chetniks

I though I should inform you first on this, we have User:Deucaon constantly enforcing his POV edits without even a shred of discussion. He and an IP (a sock?) have also been editing on 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian) and perhaps elsewhere. The guy does not respond to hails, but simply reverts all over the place, I don't now what I'm supposed to do here... --DIREKTOR (TALK) 10:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

This is just one of DIREKTOR's a lot of edit wars and this comment is total hostile statement!--Ciolone (talk) 11:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Whatever your opinion of me may be, one cannot simply revert without any reason or discussion (except perhaps The Truth). --DIREKTOR (TALK) 11:18, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

DIREKTOR you are in violation of wikipedia guidelines always!--Ciolone (talk) 11:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Whatever you say... --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:35, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Plot Summaries

Re: Kirill Lokshin's talkpage - utterly agree, and I will be doing the same. This is utterly farcical - no wonder people use the phrase Arbitrary Committee. Black Kite 17:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Deucalionite

I've responded to this user at his talk page. Deucalionite requests an apology for several problems he highlights in your interactions with him. I see no evidence of shenanigans on your part, and have responded. FYI. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 19:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for dealing with it and for the notification. :-) LOL, this guy is incredible. Now he wants me to apologise for exposing his sockpuppeting? That's a new one. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
How do you "expose" something on inconclusive evidence? If I were you Future Perfect, I'd at least apologize to Elysonius. His email address is elysonius at yahoo.com (have a chat with him and see if he agrees with what you have just said right now). Prove to me how much "good faith" you really have. Go on. Deucalionite (talk) 19:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Did you apologize to Elysonius? Deucalionite (talk) 20:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
1135181125152911325852259215221219029195141 Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Nice number. Seriously, did you apologize to Elysonius or not? Deucalionite (talk) 20:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Exactly 5181562 times. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Why so many times? Deucalionite (talk) 20:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
02951192102215602911201514141124. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Nice number (1036678991237754920553399283811). I am guessing you didn't apologize to Elysonius, right? Must be pretty scary apologizing to someone. Where's your "good faith" UltraExactZZ was talking about? Deucalionite (talk) 20:34, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Tsk tsk. No good faith whatsoever. I'll ask again. Did you or did you not apologize to Elysonius? Deucalionite (talk) 20:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Stop being silly. There's no reason for anyone to apologise to your blocked sock. That would be the heights of insanity.

Now, please quit with the trolling, or another block will be headed your way. Moreschi (talk) (debate) 20:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Trolling? I am asking Future Perfect to apologize to Elysonius. The poor bastard didn't even get a chance to show what he was made of. Are you really that stuck-up to deny my student a chance to do some good? I never saw you do anything immediate when Dodona was going around pissing off users (technically, Dodona was given a second chance after he was severely banned in case you missed it).
You know, I wish I was being silly. I wish you were right so that we can all go home. However, inconclusive evidence proves that you erroneously banned a different user who wanted to be my student.
Why should I get banned (again) for asking a simple thing like an apology for someone else? Deucalionite (talk) 21:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Yawn. Go away now, please. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Yawn. Typical administrator. Deucalionite (talk) 21:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I have “Pissed off” not all the users only some of the “Greek team” the ones that they want to build their future on the back of Albanians. All this bias, why, to make you feel comfortable now days, you people without country and clear ethnicity?? Greek but not Albanian, Albanian but not Greek …mix Byzantine remains Why you say such a things for me, I think you are using my trust I had on you. Anyway, I never trusted (it was just my wish to be in that way, so any one could have smell how things are and could be) I knew you were manipulating me (“ Besa” is between honest mans ,you could not make “Besa” with thief’s) to come to your argument (many sources just ignored or turned useless); but you were my Mentor I had to respected you for that one, what is this all about? Is this that you feel that you fail with me or s.th ?? Dodona

Ethnic Groups

hi, just a question about the Ethnic Groups info Box. When there is census which shows the number of an ethnic group, do we still add estimates from the ethnic groups home country. eg. AAA (2005 Census) - A,AAA,AAA (estimate)??? Just wondering. See Bulgarians where there are many estimates over the official census figures, is that accepted on wikipedia? it might set a precedent? P m kocovski (talk) 22:26, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, an interesting warning "it might set a precedent" - wikipedia is not a court. And besides a lot of articles use native sources as well - see Germans and Poles. We've discussed that already - why the sudden turn (again)? And what's the problem with the Bulgarian ministry of Foreign affairs to have an estimated number of people that have left Bulgaria for another country or have registered in the embassies? But why am I repeating myself - we did already discuss it.--Laveol T 22:39, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm just saying that official censa are more accurate. See Greeks in America here, MFA - 2,500,000, census - 1,380,258. And Macedonians in Australia here MFA - 200,000, census - 83,978. The MFA figures are usually an over-estimate. I have just added the numbers of both columns (of bulgarians) and the difference is astonishing, 472520! close to 500,000 people extra if the MFA estimates are given. That is not very encyclopedic, when the official censa and figures are given the MFA figures need not be displayed, only if there are no other sources available (many of the sources do have other sources). P m kocovski (talk) 08:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

CAMERA in the Signpost

If you get a chance, I wonder if you might take a quick look at User:Ragesoss/CAMERA, an article intended for the Wikipedia Signpost this week (as in, probably tonight or tomorrow), and make sure I didn't make any major mistakes or critical omissions (it's not intended to go into too much detail, though).--ragesoss (talk) 18:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Forgot?

Have you forgotten my report [13]? Kubura (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, yes, seems I never got round dealing with this one. Is the problem still ongoing? What would be the latest IPs? Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been busy, so I haven't responded promptly.
E.g., this one [14], 2 May 2008. This kind of communication does not belong to Wikipedia. Have in mind that he was warned several times before, and blocked once. It didn't help at all. He repeated his bad behaviour.
In short, inflammator again directly calls other users as "mentally unstable persons" [15] (25 April), "defective brain" [16] (9 April), "unnatural, fake creation" [17] (2 May)(calling someones ethnicity like that, insulting whole nation!).
Recently, he's mostly active through IP 24.86.127.209 (talk · contribs), but he also used these sockpuppets:
24.86.110.10 (talk · contribs) (blocked once)
24.86.127.107 (talk · contribs)
24.86.124.155 (talk · contribs)
This kind of behaviour doesn't improve Wikipedia at all, it disrupts it. Wikipedia is not a forum, nor a place for streetfight and trashtalk. That user was supposed to know that long ago. It's time to take sharper measures towards such users.
Greetings, Kubura (talk) 15:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

05:54, 30 April 2008 , [18]. Ideology spreading. On the other hand, there he propagates "language unity" as something good (that's his POV; he neglects thousands of imprisoned persons who opposed that ideology, there're related articles on en.wiki about that), while he etiquettes politicians (and indirectly, all his opposers, as he directly did before) that were/are against violent merging of languages as "those who offer hatred and division" [19] (because they oppose to his personal attitude; such accusations are heavy thing).
Future Past, you don't have to know or learn the matter of disputed topics (differences of those languages etc., history or related peoples) - generally speaking, there're some languages (a and b; respective languages have their Wikipedias), certain peoples (A and B) that call their mother tongues under certain names (A as a, B as b). Such cases we have all over the world (see diasystem). Unregistered user disrespects that and uses Wikipedia for his ideas.
That unregistered user is etiquetting those who are against his own personal points of view, and again, use Wikipedia as forum (despite being warned on talkpages, like User_talk:24.86.110.10). So, we have a cases of breach of WP:ETIQUETTE, WP:NOT, WP:ATTACK (see his insults above), WP:CIV (see his insults above), WP:TALK (foruming, chatting, fighting [20]), general lack of basic behaviour on the Internet (using of capital letters and exclamation marks).
Does this kind of behaviour belongs to Wikipedia [21] (03:32, 23 May 2008, as 24.86.127.209)? This one's from today. Kubura (talk) 13:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Gallery of Macedonian symbols

So, do we actually need an article that basically repeats what's mentioned here? 3rdAlcove (talk) 08:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC) ("Further Information" my sun)

I think you told Deucalionite "you rock", up there, btw. I guess you really aren't the tough aesthete you pretend to be. 3rdAlcove (talk) 08:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Darn it, I forgot two crucial digits... :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Comments? 3rdAlcove (talk) 09:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
AfD it. I don't see we could speedy it, but it's of course pretty useless. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Beaten to it. Thanks. 3rdAlcove (talk) 09:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh noes! Greek propaganda! And now you brainwashed Moreschi too! You must be stopped! BalkanFever 10:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
You keep the Greek nationalist pov-pushing up and we'll give you a position of power in the new (and improved) Greek-led United Macedonia (capital: Salonica!), you hear? Assuming you leave fair Australia for the barren Balkans, that is. Don't insult our intelligence though, your abuse of exclamation marks (as subtle as Macedonian propaganda (hover over) made your intentions clear. We have spoken. 3psilonTeam (talk) 10:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I shall leave my beloved Hellas Fan Club behind on the condition that you appoint me Official Macedonian Flagmaster Guy. BalkanFever 11:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Beh-nam

Another potential sock of Beh-nam has popped up on Afghanistan, thought you might take a look: Jogizai. Carl.bunderson (talk) 03:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Ilinden and VMRO

I think you should take a look at the sourcing at IMRO (about the "Macedono-Bulgarian" revolutionaries) and Ilinden Uprising (the image caption). The Bulgarian flag doesn't have blue - it was brought up on the talk page, but no to-the-point answers. I brought this up at Talk:Republic of Macedonia as well. BalkanFever 08:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Extinct language

Dear FP, I am trying to insert a footnote in the first sentence of the article but it simply doesn't work. Could you help me out? The whole reference is: Lenore A. Grenoble, Lindsay J. Whaley, Saving Languages: An Introduction to Language Revitalization, Cambridge University Press (2006) p.18.. The only thing I' ve managed to do is to insert the footnote number--Giorgos Tzimas (talk) 14:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again!--Giorgos Tzimas (talk) 14:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Awesome points! You with your expertise in the field could work wonders for this article why don't you give it a try?--Giorgos Tzimas (talk) 14:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Re rv, POV-pushing by disruptive editor not open to rational discussion

When did you last attempt to discuss with him; Have you ever discussed? ktr (talk) 16:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I tried, in a very friendly way, before you bumped in the other day. It's become painfully obvious that he can't read and is not prepared to listen. Now get off this page. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:23, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

User:3meandEr

Hi Fut,

If you remember this user was reported to WP:ANI ([22] here) some time ago for his consensus breaking edits and failure to grasp npov editing, for which you blocked and subsequently unblocked him. The editor has now taken to reverting the intro I rewrote to the Turkish Invasion of Cyprus article. Three third party uninvolved editors have stated on the talk page that my version is more neutral and more in line with Wiki standards, yet 3meander returns everyday to revert arbitrarily. Please remind him of the condition on which you unblocked him and ask him to cease reverting. Thanks, --A.Garnet (talk) 17:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


Ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria

Can you jump in this please?Here.Isn't that Vandalisem??--Makedonij (talk) 23:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I already told you that your text was a copyright violation and was POV. As simple as that. --Laveol T 00:03, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that passage is partly plagiarised from its source, partly overtly POV, partly redundant with other parts of the article, so it's unuseable on a number of grounds. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:00, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
But he did remove links to!Not only writen text!What is the matter whit the link showing Bulagrin authorety denideing Ethnic Macedonian Minority.And it is not any LINK,there are 2 from OSCE and one from MHRMI.And why is LAVEOL reverting all my articles??When you mention POV,you shoud look in to article TEMPLATE Bulgarians or Bulgarians in ALbania or BULGARIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH!That is POV without neutral sources!

Comon FUT you know that i'm wright.Makedonij (talk) 08:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Prison Break episode images

Under my personal policy of not reverting admin edits, I wish to know why you removed the Prison Break episode images from the articles without a clear explanation. They had all the required information (fair-use rationale and source info). Thanks. --Lakeyboy (talk) 02:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see the discussion at Talk:List of Prison Break episodes, last section. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Fighting Skopjan/FYROMian propaganda

Hello, I would like to know who I have to contact in order to have all FYROMian propaganda removed from Wikipedia. I thought this was a serious encyclopedia, however it is fullfulled with Skopjan crap. There are so many lies in here that you cannot even get a single line of light in this place.

The most horrendous things I have seen here being used that do not correspond to reality are: - Republic of Macedonian being used instead of the legally international name FYROM. - Ethnic Macedonian... everyone knows they are Bulgarians... what are they trying to pull. - In no place it says that it was Tito in 1948 the one who brainwashed this population and made them believe they were Macedonians as an intent to have a unified Yugoslavia and remove Bulgarian population from there. - There is missing information about the slogan "Macedonia is Greek, don't call them by my name!". --87.219.84.239 (talk) 02:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


I wonder who'll block this guy first. Just take a look at his contributions. BalkanFever 03:16, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
J. F. Christ. He managed to spam over 9000 (it's Caturday right? hoho) pages in about an hour. 3rdAlcove (talk) 07:10, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
His IP resolves to...Spain? Ethnique Mac. agent provocateur... 3rdAlcove (talk) 07:12, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Or just an(other) offended Greek. BalkanFever 07:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
9000??? I can has lnks plz? I see a few dozen. – He's of course the same weirdo from Spain who's been active for several weeks now, ever since the issue of the "minorities in Greece" map. I'd say, any returning IP from that range that engages in nationalist editing can from now on be safely regarded as a banned user and rolled back without any ado. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
I was actually wondering why things were so quiet 'round these parts. The salad bowl erupts once in a while. 3rdAlcove (talk) 07:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Anyone got an idea for an AfD? :D. BalkanFever 08:05, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Kıbrıs

Bir yerden alıp kolleksyonu yaptım. Nereden aldığımı hatırlayamıyorum. Ona göre kararını ver. Kolay gelsin. Takabeg (talk) 15:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

PICTURES

  • Well thanks Fut P.,you manige to delete them all,even i spent 5 hours madeing them so that wont be copyright!Not single of them were from other sources,than from my own!There are 3 pictures in Macedonian orthodox church maded by my own,one is with my dother in the corner and oltair,pleas remove them to,and all others maded by me,thouse in Macedonian Americans!!But,they are all main and you cant take them from me.THANKS A LOT,your NEUTRALITY is once agin proven!Makedonij (talk) 19:10, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
  • OK,now i remove all of my pictures from articles,i hope you are hapy now,becouse i'm not!!Makedonij (talk) 19:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Deletion review for Image:tbagfamily.png

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Image:tbagfamily.png. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article, speedy-deleted it, or were otherwise interested in the article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. CyberGhostface (talk) 21:54, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations!

A am still alive!!!Jingby (talk) 11:35, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

αναθεματισμένος. BalkanFever 13:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Few more weeks at it and you'll make the Greek junta gung(sic) leader proud. No stopping now. 3rdAlcove (talk) 14:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey

I just wanted to say with while I still disagree with you, I would still like to try to get along with you outside this issue. Thanks.--CyberGhostface (talk) 20:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, thanks, yeah, it's good to reassure each other of that from time to time. I know I have strong opinions on these matters and they are probably a bit outside the "middle" (although I don't consider myself among the totally dogmatic free-content-only defenders.) I hope you found my latest comments on the DRV page constructive. Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:28, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


Star_Trek:_Phase_II

Would you take a look at the image use in this article, the usage is excessive, but I dont know how to prune it, thanks Fasach Nua (talk) 20:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, most of those images strike me as relatively good, actually. I guess showing what that series would have looked like if it had been made is not too bad as a general fair use rationale. That certainly goes for the protagonist images. The top spacecraft image would certainly be unproblematic if it was used to show something specific about that series (is the craft different from that in the previous series? The caption could be improved if that was the case.) One might argue that the number of images in the gallery is a bit excessive, and it would be nicer if there was more accompanying text to it (like, comparing those draft features to those in other series, etc.) – But on the whole, this is not really a case where I'd personally press for massive deletions. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:01, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I quite like the images in it, but I'm not really objective, as I quite like Star Trek. The Wikipedia:Fair use review appears to be dead, ,and there isnt really anywhere to get this stuff looked at. Fasach Nua (talk) 21:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Help is needed

Hello, a user [[User:|Beam]] has started an edit war on topic Kosovo with me. What is the correct solution to the problem of edit waring?Mike Babic (talk) 22:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I took care of it FP. I just stopped by to thank you, which I will now. Beam 01:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

 ????

I'm not shure but you finaly show some neutrality,so i'm giveing you this to be more neutral in the future and that means real neutral.

Future Perfect at Sunrise i give you MEDAL for showing neutrality when Macedonian Colors are judged.Makedonij (talk) 21:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Future Perfect at Sunrise i give you MEDAL for showing neutrality when Macedonian Colors are judged.Makedonij (talk) 21:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!

Firstly, I just read a lot of your talk page, and even clicked a few of these people's talk pages for curiosity sake and ... holy crap! This stuff is insane, I have no clue how you deal with some of it. Specifically that sock puppet Prime...just wow.

Anyway, I really appreciated your comments regarding Husond. It was very nice to be defended and to be honest vindicated. I was about to give up on Wikipedia. No one wants to look like a self pitying victim, and I was starting to sound as such when referencing Husond. It was pretty gross. To see a neutral third party agree with me, and to support the facts as I saw them...well it reignited my faith in the Wikipedia system. Even though my reputation is all kinds of messed up due to Husond's bias and cruelness at least I am able to continue to contribute. Thank you again! Beam 01:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

"tobatera" vs. "tombatera" thing

It may be more than 8 months since you asked me, but I did not forget! Believe it or not!! Well, in my edition of Triantafyllidis (1988, reprint of the 1941 edition) the only thing I found about "tobatera" issue is this in page 21:

"Και το τον πατέρα το προφέρουμε τομ.μπατέρα, όχι μόνο προφέροντας μ στη θέση του ν, αλλά και λέγοντας το π σα να ήταν (μπ), ακριβώς όπως και στο εμπρός δε λέμε (εμπρός) παρά (εμ.μπρός)."

No map found, but I'll keep searching, and I'll also have a look in Papyros-Larousse-Britannica.--Yannismarou (talk) 13:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

  • I am afraid that we may have to do with two different works. The "Ιστορική Εισαγωγή" written in 1938 y Triantafyllides himself, and the "Νεοελληνική Γραμματική", written in 1941 written by a committee presided by Triantafyllides, under the auspices of the ΟΕΣΒ (Οργανισμός Εκδόσεων Σχολικών Βιβλίων).--Yannismarou (talk) 18:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Ah, sure, that would make sense. Thanks for searching! Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeth Halverson

User Beam continues to add content that I consider POV. I've added a POV tag to the section because there is not a consensus about the section. User Beam has removed the POV tag, which is clearly improper because there *is* and issue that has not been adequately discussed and resolved. Proxy User (talk) 16:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

HELP

Will you inwolve in this here ?I'll like to see your state?Please?--Makedonij (talk) 22:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Bulgarian ethnogenesis

Now you are violating and don't say that I'm violating the copywrite because I have sourced the data from an important website. why are you saying that that website is not good, don't say its not good because you think so it has all the anthropology info for the rest of the world which was carried out by professionals. It doesn't matter if its old, there were more smarter people in the past. You didn't understand what I explained in the ethnogenesis section. What I explained was that bulgarians have other anthropologic features. You are removing the data because you don't agree with it and don't like it. You don't accept other facts so you are corrupt! Why don't you accept other facts?

--Ivailo82 (talk) 23:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

RE:Speedies

Hello, I don't particularly like it when another admin comes to my talk page arguing in the manner you did. A simple note asking for an explanation suffices. Last night I performed over 200 image deletions while cleaning out CAT:CSD, so forgive me if I may have made a mistake (which seems I may have with the second photo, but Ill get to that). First off, if you are an admin and feel a photo meets CSD criteria, than use your buttons and take responsibility for it. The only other reason I can see that another admin would not delete a photo would be a COI, or the admin wants a second opinion. So by you tagging the image instead of deleting it, you put the power to decide in another's hands. And now I AM " position to "decline" anything here," because I am an administrator of this Wikipedia. So next time you want a page deleted, do it yourself and you won't run into any problems. Now to the first photo, the image in question has been on Wikipedia for three years, and has two rationales for fair-use. That alone takes away speedy, because the uploader is making an attempt at following policy, and the photo has obviously been seen by a heck of a lot of people and never deleted. NFCC#8 usually allows photos that show characters in-character, as there never is a free alternative. Even, if you feel this doesnt meet this criteria, it is debatable, and thus not speedy. Speedy is for blatant cases, where there is no doubt the photo doesnt meet one of our criteria. Take the image to WP:IFD if you want to get it deleted, and allow the community to decide. The second photo, I didnt see the talk page, all I saw was what appeared to be a very old painting that met the tag that was on it, so my bad. I don't see why the statement that was on the talk page wasn't placed on the tag so an admin could easily see it, but heck Ill take the blame for that one (and I see you already deleted it, make sure you delete the talk page too). In conclusion, next time you have a beef with me, coming to my talk page the way you did does not help the situation, and if you are going to put the decision in someone else's hand, be ready for a decision you don't want. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 14:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

First off, you are taking this way to seriously. Personally, I dont care about, nor do I have any interest in this photo. To me, it was one decision out of 300 last night. I do not need to argue my point until someone complains about it. If we had to do that on Wikipedia, nothing would get done. And get over the fact that I "disrespected" you, cause thats a load of crap. This is a Wiki, look at WP:BRD, you were bold, I reverted, and then discussion ensues. I dont care if a newbie or Jimbo himself is the other editor, I felt that your speedy was unjustified, so I reverted to the previous version, which contrary to your belief is perfectly within my authority to do. Admins are allowed to decline any speedy they feel is unjustified, it is not meant to "disrespect" the tagger, its just a decision. And you, being an admin yourself, do you really feel that you were respectful to me and the way you wrote your comment was the most productive wording? I really would like to hear an answer to that.
Now to the image, here's my argument:
  • Image:Ep01 tony.jpg provides a description, a source link, a licensing tag, and fair-use rationales for each page it is being used in.
  • The image in question shows a real person portraying a copyrighted character of a famous TV show, a subject of public interest, thus there is no free alternative that would be able to portray the person while "in-character."
  • The image has been hosted on Wikipedia servers for just under 3 years (this is not a reason to not delete, just a reason to not speedy), thus thousands of editors and administrators have viewed the image in question and have not acted to delete it.
  • It is only used to portray the character, where the articles in question both address and comment on said character. This allows readers to be able to not only be told what the character looks like, but also be able to view the character, thus "increasing the reader's understanding of the subject."
  • Without this photo, it would be detrimental to the readers understanding of the character.
  • The policy you are throwing at me (WP:NFCC#8, is being discussed, as the policy is not clear and many editors are confused by it! Do you really think you should be basing your whole argument on a disputed policy?
  • Please, if you really care that much, just bring the photo to WP:IFD and let the community decide. Another admin clearly disagrees with you, thus WP:IFD is the place to bring it. And in the future, be a little nicer, I am a fellow admin and thus deserve at least a tiny bit respect before you come accusing me of disrespecting you. The whole way you started out your post turned me off from you right away. All you had to do was say "Hey, you declined this speedy, could you elaborate on your reasoning?" and I would have been more than happy to give you my full reasoning. I would see it as very poor taste to just go and delete the photo by yourself, as per the obvious disagreement, the fact that technically that would appear to be wheel-warring, and the fact that this is clearly not a blatant case. I hope that this explanation suffices, and that you take my advice. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 01:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
To address your numbered points:
(1) Per WP:WHEEL: "A wheel war is a struggle between two or more administrators in which they undo one another's administrative actions," my administrative action was declining the speedy, thus you deleting for the same reason without any change would constitute such a war. But this is not my point, nor do I care to argue it, as I would obviously not go running to WP:AN/I because you deleted the image.
(2) I again made it clear that I was not saying that the image should not be deleted because it is an old upload. I said that this is a reason for there to be a discussion before deletion, as it obviously has been hosted here for a long time without any action, meaning that some users may want to comment on the deletion. I specifcally endorsed going to WP:IFD so such a discussion could happen.
(3) The CSD criteria for deleting an image based on NFCC is that it obviously fails one of the criteria. I have no doubt in my mind that you have a good point about it not being useful enough to satisfy the criteria, but it is not obvious or blatant, especially when someone else gives you reasoning on why it isn't blatant. Again, this is why I asked for you to go to WP:IFD.
(4) I will work on providing a short reason for such deletions, but I still hold true to the belief of WP:BRD, where I am always open for discussion of any of my actions, and will gladly undo any of my actions if someone feels I was wrong. If you would have come to me in a nicer manner, you would have realized this.
(5) My question still stands, do you think that the way you acted was appropriate?
« Gonzo fan2007 (talk ♦ contribs) @ 02:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
dropping by, though I do not usually work with images. (and I am deliberately not looking at the items in question) In most situations it is highly preferable in most situations that an admin not directly delete an item, but just tag it. Any one of us is subject to making mistakes. I can not see objecting when someone places a tag and another admin removes it. That's the very purpose of CSD. I decline other admin's tags regularly, and other admins people decline some of my tags also. Any good faith dispute is for XfD. There is not much point in arguing between people when an established editor, admin or not, objects to a proposed speedy. That part of things belongs in XfD. And I would never replace a tag some other admin had removed, unless it were the most dramatically obvious sort of mistake . if an admin ever replaced a speedy I removed, unless I had obviously really goofed, i would certainly expect that he remove it. Though I can't remember anyone every doing it unless he had not noticed my action in the first place. Not doing so is indeed wheel-warring. DGG (talk) 13:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC) DGG (talk) 13:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
All I ever protested against was the fact that he removed it without an edit summary (other than "decline"), which is exactly as impolite and disruptive as a bare "rv" or rollback in a normal content dispute between editors. Plus a couple of later statements that to my mind demonstrated poor grasp of the relevant policies. - I still disagree about the wheel-warring, although obviously I agree that in a situation where an earlier removal is backed by a tangible policy-based argument and a discussion-based process like IfD exists as an alternative, that is then the obvious choice. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:40, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I always use some sort of specific edit summary in declining a speedy, though I must admit I have them pre-built as macros, as situations tend to recur. The thing to do at this point is obviously for everyone to stand down about this. DGG (talk) 13:59, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

User Titus001

Please, terrify this user (User:Titus001—he has no user page but he has a talk page: User talk:Titus001) by blocking him for a while. He changes the date of the end of the Roman Empire from 395 to 1453 with no reason. The 395 was a result of a major discussion and that user without having talked at all and without having expressed his opinion changes it. I tried to talk with him but he didn't answer. Dimboukas (talk) 14:46, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Final decision in CAMERA lobbying arbitration case

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. Mere membership by an editor in some external group that has been involved in violations of policy is not actionable without evidence that the editor has some personal involvement in said violations. Sanctions previously imposed are confirmed. An amnesty is extended towards any editors who may have been involved in this external group and who have not been sanctioned for their participation in it. This is coupled with an expectation that these editors will not participate in similar efforts in the future. Members of the community who may have information regarding similar efforts by external groups to unduly influence our content are urged to forward that information to the Committee for review. Hypnosadist (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) is admonished to maintain an appropriate level of professionalism at all times, and to avoid misrepresenting Wikipedia policy to other editors. For the committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 20:22, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Copy of Image:550px-Greece linguistic minoritiesb copy.jpg?

Do you have an un-POV'ed version of this map that you could re-upload? This chump has overwritten it yet again. I'd suggest protecting the image to stop him doing it again. I will be warning him about his editing too. -- ChrisO (talk) 22:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The original version is still in the history, we can revert it any time. In fact, it's probably hardly worth fighting over it now, because I'll re-draw parts of the map anyway, having found new and better information for Vlach (see User talk:Koryakov Yuri). Fut.Perf. ☼ 05:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Hy

Me again,isn't this the same what i was doing here,and you baned me becouse of that????If you un baned me, i will show the sources just like you,i realy didn't know about that linking,and you should look my problem on Commons??!--Makedonij (talk) 10:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Why dont you answer me ?????????????????--Makedonij (talk) 13:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, which exactly of your images do you think is similar to mine? Please note that copyright pertains to the graphical appearance of a map, not to the contents it represents. I re-drew the map independently (different colors, different arrangement of legends, etc.); it's quite dissimilar from its model except for the fact that both represent the same underlying data. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

edit summary

Is this edit-summary ok? I'm not a big fan of any of the people in it, but saying such things is not right. Balkanfever has been warned before for such summaries, but that one beats them all. --Laveol T 13:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You can watch the contributions of Special:Contributions/Laveol and see that more than 50% of his actions are engagement in negating the Macedonian Nation and its attributes.--Makedonij (talk) 17:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Personal information

What happens if someone has got personal info about a contributor and is sharing it with the world? I tried to dig out Wiki rules or guidelines about this, but couldn't. --Laveol T 21:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

If somebody is trying that in earnest, that would be definitely blockable. (And if there's info posted that you want removed, you can e-mail Wikipedia:Oversight. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, I e-mailed them. I hope it will be resolved soon. Raso and Makedonij have been discussing me for some time now in Macedonian, but the thing today was a real shock. They were just joking with me till now, but I made it clear I don't want my name to be used (I'm still trying to figure out how he did it). Can I remove it from Raso's talkpage now or should I wait for the oversight to do its work? --Laveol T 22:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
So, remove it. And watch out. My name is not Raso. I have a user name...Raso mk. --Raso mk (talk) 22:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Acatualy i speak whit Raso mk in Macedonian,with you i speak in english and you dont want to answer,also you dont want to do compromise about some pages..... No hard feellings,Pozdrav--Makedonij (talk) 13:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Mike Babic

I have started actions because of copyright violations of this user ( [23] and [24] ) --Rjecina (talk) 04:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

195.222.97.164

Hi Future, there's another IP running amok on Serbia-related articles. Possibly a sock of User:PANONIAN, here are his edits: [25]. What's your call on this guy? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Images, copyrights

Here and here. Are they ok? Have the Balkanese finally learned how to correctly upload pictures? 3rdAlcove (talk) 07:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Με έγραψες ωρε Φράγκε; Ούτε μια απάντηση για τους τύπους δλδ. 3rdAlcove (talk) 11:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Those two photographs seem more or less harmless to me. One could probably nitpick and find that there's this or that gap in their descriptions, but on the face of it the PD claims aren't too implausible, I'd say. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
THX 3rdAlcove (talk) 11:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Permision

Can i upload some images in this page,they are copies from book,black and white,also you must see judgement on commons in problem which you report there. I'm waiting answer on my page??--Makedonij (talk) 15:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this vandalism here?--Makedonij (talk) 17:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for help.--Makedonij (talk) 17:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Problem with MOST (Association)

I have started to edit the mentioned article and after two minutes the article has been deleted by the administrator User:Cobaltbluetony without any reason or warning. I wrote him twise but obviously he doesnt want to answer me. I will ask you lake an administrator if you can to revert it so I can continue my work. I plan to finish the article and after that if you think that the article is not good delete it or live it like that. here are the reasons why the article should be there:

  • The biggest NGO in Macedonia
  • Participate on many elections in European countries
  • Has more than 10.000 members...so on.
and I hope so that you will understand my problem. Regards--Raso mk (talk) 22:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I have to back up Raso here - see [26]--Laveol T 12:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Please revert the article because there were good references that I cannot find them right now. And there was a good stub. Thank you --Raso mk (talk) 20:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

re Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Hegumen_again

I thought that you, as the blocking admin, may be interested in reviewing/commenting per the above. Cheers. LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Serbia

I do not know if you have noticed but there is small problem (and there is no controversy) in this article. During this year User:NeroN BG is deleting [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Serbia&diff=202523439&oldid=202519047 again] and again without explanation Holocaust accepted sources (USHMM, Yad Vashem, and Jewish Virtual Library) and changing them with Jasenovac research institute (this is not Jasenovac museum) which is having aim to :"understand the true context and history of war crimes and civil wars in Balkan history" [27]. During february 2008 I have tried to start discussion about sources [28].He has not answered but only continued to delete again and again statements from USHMM, Yad Vashem and Jewish Virtual Library . I am sure that in next few days he will again delete statements confirmed with this sources..--Rjecina (talk) 03:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Oversight

Hi. Can you please clarify something for me, if you know about this? Editors are not allowed to modify or remove other editors comments - right? If editor A has made a comment including the fact that editor B is the author of an article (presumably editor B's name is on the article), is editor B allowed to modify/remove the comment? Isn't it meant to be left alone and referred to requests for oversight? (particularly because editor B is clearly involved in a dispute with editor A) Cheers. Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the backgrounds (especially not how and why A thought he knew B was the author of that paper, and whether B really had a legitimate reason to expect that information was private), but supposing for the sake of argument that B's complaint is legitimate, removal strikes me as okay. Note that offending edits on a high-traffic page need to be reverted quickly, before oversight can even get active. If many people have added more comments after an edit, there's no way even oversight could get rid of it later. Fut.Perf. ☼ 05:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
OK. This is concerning an editor who was already warned by a notable admin [29] not to remove or alter other people's comments and explicitly told "Mucking with the comments of others is not acceptable. If you feel something is inappropriate, please raise the issue to the attention of uninvolved administrators, via WP:ANI or another appropriate venue". See my edit summary on this edit [30]. Then he reverts it [31] and leaves this bogus warning on my page [32]. Please look into it. Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Ethnic Macedonians template

Oh, sorry! I think I updated the template per another edit request, and later that day another editor contacted me about an image vote that appeared to be concluded, with consensus favouring the sun image. So I didn't think much of it when I requested the edit (and would've done it myself if I knew how). I hadn't realised that there was so much controversy about it, but I knew nothing of the image etc. so apologies. Ooh, what a response on the talk page though; oh well, it's hardly unexpected as my edit was much more controversial than it first seemed!! So apologies, and thanks for letting me know. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 08:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

BULGARIAN ETHNOGENESIS

Hey stop removing sourced data, that is a real data that describes Bulgarian anthropology from the snpa nordish website. Bulgarians are not only characterized by Mediterranean, there are other features as well like nordic, dinaric, central asian turanid, slavic and alpine. Bulgarians are mixed with all these types NOT JUST MEDITERRANEAN. In fact mediterranean are quite low. Mediterraneans are only in countries like spain, portugal, italy, greece and the middle eastern countries. NOT BULGARIA! So don't mess up the ethnogenesis section because I have given important sourced information from a good website. And the paragraph about relation to anatolian turks and armenians is total rubbish and that source is corrupt. Bulgarians are related to romanians, macedonians, bosnians and croats. Bulgarians are balkan people not middle easterners. Bulgarians have nothing to do with the middle easterners or the mediterraneans. As fact says Bulgarians are people that descended from a mix of indigeounous balkan people like the thracians and the illyrians, slavs, celts, central asian bulgars from western china of iranic stock and germanics.

Well the macedonian data which you say is unacceptable is unknown as i have nothing to do with it. BUT PLEASE leave the ethnogenesis section alone except that macedonian paragraph. delete that macedonian section if its unacceptable!--Ivailo82 (talk) 19:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Future, I see the chapter about Bulgarian ethnogenesis is fully vandalized from user as Ivailo 82. Please, bring it into order! Jingby (talk) 14:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Hegumen

I apologize for evading my ban. Please see this. --124.182.46.34 (talk) 18:09, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Would it be out of the question to have my comment reposted prior to the expiration of my ban? --124.182.46.34 (talk) 18:14, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I guess I just cracked. It's really quite stressful having to refute such things. I'm sorry for causing such a disruption. I think I'll take a break, completely abandon my current account and possibly create a new one some time in the near future. It was nice working with you. --124.182.139.162 (talk) 18:24, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Nomination

Gee, I'd have to nominate them in a new section? I'd rather not bother at all, tbh. They don't bother me and the usual suspects might cry "WIKI RACISM". What's the point in nominating any if "we keep dealing with these kinds of userpage elements and they keep bouncing back at us." anyway? Freedumb for everyone. 3rdAlcove (talk) 19:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

His Way

Hey Fut.Perf., long time no talk! I was looking at the recent edit war at Komotini, and I have to say that Aee1980 (talk · contribs) reminds me of our old friend. Do you think he wants it Hiswayyy? ;-) Khoikhoi 11:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

All we like sheep
Have gone astra-a-a-a-a-a-ayyyy
We have turnèd
Everyone to his own wa-a-ayyyyy....

See, old friendship never loses its fascination... :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Blair Witch image

Yes, please undelete and let me know when you do so, so I can go in and fix it. Thanks for the offer. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 17:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Might I truble you to take a gander at it so as to ensure it has been licensed and summarized correctly? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Looks fine to me. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, and thanks for re-adding it to the article. I now have it in my watchlist, to keep an eye on it. I might as well check out and watchlist the images in the other articles I am working on. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Protection

Can he really do that? --Laveol T 19:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Try logging out and editing the page, and you'll see if his protection worked :-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Serbia

As you saw,I am fighting against anti-serbian propaganda.I will not allow to Croats ,and similar to write bad things about Serbia and their personal opinions.I deleted things about some 'attrocities' etc.And I will do it again.Maybe you support their opinions.If someone is overtly tendentious and non-neutral,that is User:R-41 and User:Rjecina . You can stop me,but you can't stop the truth.

User:Bg007

Ok,honestly,you are so complicate about rules to upload a image.You deleted numerous time,so I thought that is the easiest way for upload.Sorry about this,it will not happen again. User:Bg007 There are 5 images: Image:Beli Dvor unutrasnjost.jpg , Image:White Castle Art.jpg, Image:White Castle1.jpg, Image:Image:White Castle1.jpg, Image:Beli Dvor pogled.jpg And 'cause you speak many languages well,are you a team(CIA or MI5) or one person? Cheers! User:Bg007

Ma Again

About baned from uploading,did you see this ? Maybe you will want to put another opinion there? Dont judge me becouse my bad english, i didn't want to enoy nobody (almost). See that page please and then a tell me what do you think? --Makedonij (talk) 20:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Can you protected then, from unregistred users?--Makedonij (talk) 20:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)