User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise

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Note: If you leave a message here I will most often respond here

[edit] Panathinaikos FC

Well can you please make it clear to the user Karagounis that wiki is about facts and not personal preferences.He keeps reverting the article in order not to include Nikopolidis and Konstantinou in the notable past players only because of his sentiment towards them when they moved to Olympiakos team a couple of years ago.

They keep adding also a 1911 championship when the Greek FA was established in mid-20ies and noone recognized the title.I don't really want to be involved in a constant revert war to state the obvious.Maybe you can explain him.Eagle of Pontus

OK understood.To tell you the truth i didn't know that there was actually a 3 times revert rule,as i am thinking it, it makes sense.Thanks for the advice. Eagle of Pontus

[edit] Ante Pavelic

Please, do not contribute to the edit war here. You are an administrator - aren't you??? I verified the context and saw it well-referenced and accurate.

[edit] Hi There

I have wanted to smile at you for a long time

Why Wiki Why (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Cheers, and Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

[edit] Kosovo Intro

Please add your suggested changes and post results @ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kosovo&action=edit&section=29

[edit] You are not fair at all

You banned the Greeks,because they think it is not fair,to use the term Republic of Macedonia,cause is not recognized from the united nations...You use fascists methods to spread F.Y.R.O.M S PROPAGANDA ON INTERNET....i will find the way to report you to other administrators...behaviours like yours are a shame for wikipedia,you are insulting all of us....This country has the name F.Y.R.O.M.official name not Macedonia or Republic of Macedonia...so be wise and change the name yourself..your actions are offensive and are giving power to hate and racism...i hope you will understand finally..

[edit] A Tale of Two Cities

Hello,

You edited the A Tale of Two Cities Wikipedia entry in March by revealing the ending of the book in the first paragraph of the introduction of the entry, where no spoilers are meant to appear. I was casually reading only the introduction entry, taking care not to read any further, 3/4 of the way through the book, when the ending was ruined for me by you. I would have preferred that you had left the intentional mistake there, inaccurate though it was. I hope you're pleased with yourself.

Josh Burkart Davis, CA, US

[edit] Unnecessary Comment

Man, what is your problem? All I did was leave a comment on a discussion page providing information about something that is inaccessible to most users, and your response is to go and leave a jerky comment on my talk page.

[edit] Advice

I advice you regarding violation of user:DIREKTOR for this restriction. Always DIREKTOR persists in several edit wars pushing his POV statements. Articles involved:

You can control history of these articles for evidence! Regards and best wishes. Nemo, 1 May 2008

[edit] Proposal

I hope all this madness with me is over. My proposal is that you symbolically release my account after so much time banned and I will discuss with you every new source as reliable before representing them User:Dodona

[edit] Your manipulation at Sarah Wiener article

I'm fully aware that you did this change not coming from your own knowledge or personal interest, but on behalf of the editors of that Article in the German section of wikipedia.

But I could only laugh about your try on the English version. What do you think what will happen, when I put a link to that article in an email to a animal right protection society in USA? That the German wikipedia is lost to the Vereinsmeierei is well know. But over here in the English section, it will only cost you any write privileges you have.

I know you will delete this forstanding text. Pity yourself for your misbehaviour.

[edit] DieWeisseRose: "That group and its archive have been deleted."

have you been able to find out when? there are 12 members belonging to wikiforpalestine who criteria for belonging required proof of pro-palestinian/anti-israel bias, active at wiki. should DieWeisseRose have a higher loyalty to a group undermining wiki?? the answer to this will prove that the wiki model is a failure in contentious issues. i would like to thank you for ignoring my request given earlier. it also demonstrates what wiki is all about.Davidg (talk)

[edit] image

Hi, thats alright if you choose to ban me for a short while. Just a question how can i upload picture's like banner/masthead or the flag? I know they arent self made but i didnt know what other category to post them under? Could you please tell me for future reference.? PMK1 (talk) 22:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

hi, can i have my image ban reverted so that i can upload this image which will be of great use to this article, Macedonian Australians. I will add this tag to it and post as NON-FREE. {tl|non-free logo}}. is that alrite??? PMK1 (talk) 13:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't really see why we would want a logo image of a periodical we don't even have an article on? Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Becuase it would go well in the Media Section where the Newspapers are listed. I plan on fully updating the page and will write about Makedonska Iskra. Also the newspaper was the leading symbol of macedonian unity for nearly two decades, it finished with the MAPL. Is that alrite? PMK1 (talk) 00:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] serbia

Bg007 is jeopardizing not only the Serbia article but also other Balkan-related ones in a biased and vandal-like manner. He should be denied the rights to continue doing so until he proves himself to be at least a semi-proffessional editor. Regards, NeroN_BG

[edit] References

Something for you, please this is not in Macedonian so you could probebly read it!-)--Makedonij (talk) 15:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Come on, now. Macedonian genocide? There were "ethnic cleansings" all over the Balkans at that time but that's ridiculous. Since 1800(!), no less... 3rdAlcove (talk) 16:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

With a genocide raging that long, its a wonder that any are left, or are busy editing Wikipedia, instead of fleeing the death squads.;) - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 17:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thats a tad distastefull. PMK1 (talk) 04:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Does that refer to Arcayne's comment or Makedonij's intellectual pornography? --Tsourkpk (talk) 06:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

lol, the comment. Who would have thought "intellectual pornography" was a word :L. PMK1 (talk) 13:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of modern Macedonia

The article History of modern Macedonia is a POV pushing article because it is trying to assort the only modern Macedonia is the Greek Macedonia, when in fact Greek Macedonia is part of the region of Macedonia. The article is trying to monopolize the term Macedonia and should be looked at carefully. Mactruth (talk) 22:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

A differentiation is needed btw Republic of Macedonia and Greek Macedonia. Stating "modern Macedonia" is to state any part of the region of Macedonia, or the entire part of Macedonia... and this term cannot be used exclusively for Greek Macedonia. Please look into this. Mactruth (talk) 22:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I have made the issue of history of modern Macedonia clear for a while now without any response. Please read "Discussion" of each and you will understand why I did that (not out of monopolization or propaganda). I find it one sided that Kekrops complaints are responded to immediately while my complaints, which are legitimate, have been ignored thus far Mactruth (talk) 06:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

ps: I will continue to protest until history of modern Macedonia name is changed to allow differentiation btw Greek Macedonia and Republic of Macedonia to occur. Mactruth (talk) 06:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand why the article History of modern Macedonia is allowed to stay without a change of name to differentiate it from History of the Republic of Macedonia:

Modern Macedonia is a region, not just Greek Macedonia.
When I created Modern Macedonia and had it goto Republic of Macedonia, you immediately deleted it, isn't that the same scenario (having history of modern Macedonia speak ONLY about the history of Greek Macedonia)? Mactruth (talk) 06:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Yeah, I'm new to the whole image-deletion thing; sorry if I seem overly cautious! There was a tag on there saying that there was a grace period, so I thought I'd de-tag it until that had passed (11 June, I think). But yes, there was nothing wrong with the criteria, and it should be deleted, but I've seen other admins decline deletions until that grace period is over, so I thought cautiousness was needed.

Actually, scratch the above, I just realised that it was an invalid fair-use claim, and not simply because it was unused. Right, sorry for the hassle, deleted. :D Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 18:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Zdravo

Hy, Fut.Pf. i found some numbers of Bulgarians in the world here,is that a reliable sorce, i mean can i insert them in Bulgarians article, most of the infos there is just from Bulgarian foregin ministry. And my apologise to you in first place if i offend you. --Makedonij (talk) 10:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I've come across "Joshuaproject" before, it's quite certainly not a good source. I would recommend against using it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, fine, no using.--Makedonij (talk) 18:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] National Liberation War of Macedonia

Hi there. I just wanted to let you know that a Request for Comment was added to Talk:National Liberation War of Macedonia regarding a content dispute between User:Revizionist and User:Kobra85. Basically, both editors believe their respective versions of the article are "better" than the other's, with regard to WP:N, WP:RS, WP:V and WP:NPOV. I've been trying to defuse the edit war between them, warned them both about WP:3RR, etc., and in the process, Kobra85 said that he had made extensive edits to the article that you requested. Since he's named you, I figured it would be best to ask for your opinion on the content.

I do not have any strong opinion on either version since I have no knowledge of the subject. The extent of my participation has been to explain general policies and to try to keep these two settled down enough to where they can work constructively.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 17:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] IP Problems

Hi there, I'm having trouble with an anonymous disgruntled Serbian editor. His IP keeps jumping, but it's obviously the same person. The problem is less his edits, and more his vitriolic edit summaries.

79.101.246.57 (talk · contribs)

77.46.217.231 (talk · contribs)

79.101.247.52 (talk · contribs)

I've left a very polite civility warning here, which led to the final message. He apparently hasn't figured out how to attack my user page or talk page yet, and anyway it seems like a block would be problematic given his range. I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to handle this. Thanks! // Chris ^{(complaints)•(contribs)} 00:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!!! // Chris ^{(complaints)•(contribs)} 00:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Raso mk/MOST

Hallo. I have finished editing the article about MOST and now take a look at the article and tell me whether it is good and if it is good revert it and make it a real article. I have one graphic that shows the organizational structure of Most, is it good to be put on the article? Regards --Raso mk (talk) 15:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Can you revert the article, please. I put enough references and if you think that something is POV correct it. --Raso mk (talk) 18:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, sorry but I don't really see that the issues I pointed out have been solved, it's still a rather problematic article. I mean, it's up to you, you can move it back into mainspace yourself if you want (don't need me to do that), it's your responsibility – I'm just saying, somebody could still come along and AfD it any time. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

If you think that something is POV fix it. Feel to free to edit.--Raso mk (talk) 18:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but it's not just POV wording, as I said, the biggest problem is lack of external reliable sources. You need outside reports in reliable publications talking about the organisation, in order to demonstrate notability. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I will try to find references and links--Raso mk (talk) 19:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Greece and Epirus, Kosovo Vandalism

I had written some real facts about Greece, Epirus and Kosovo.

Greece facts proven by BBC and CNN reports. Epirus facts true from many years, reported by historian and discovered in a research in 2005. Kosovo is INCORRECTLY spelled, since It's populated with Albanians, it IS THE RIGHT OF ALBANIANS TO NAME IT, and it's real name is KosovA!

I'm very dissappointed with your service, you are unable to verify real facts and just remove what you think not true, I want to contribute but in this circumstances it is IMPOSSIBLE!

AND THIS http://my.telegraph.co.uk/f_off_telegraph_censors/may_2008/country_list_of_most_homosexuals_born_live.htm IS A SERIOUS TELEGRAPH! HOW THE HELL YOU KNOW THAT IT ISN'T? GO GET A LIFE, MAN!

[edit] Criticism

I am really having problem with vandals and your criticism. see this Rjecina

[edit] Shakespeare

Wonderfully done. --Relata refero (disp.) 11:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infoboxes

There was an RFC on the TV MoS, I raised the issue of infoboxes, and wasn't taken too well. I think it is worth raising the issue of non-free images used in fields in infoboxes at policy level. I did a lot of work on WP:DW a few months back, made some progress, and then went back to square one Fasach Nua (talk) 13:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not allowed to notify editors of arbitration sanctions?

FP, I think you should take a look at this discussion - Moreschi opined a few days ago that any admin can log a notification, but the converse is being argued here. This has obvious implications for our own policing of Balkans articles. I've left a request for clarification on the thread. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Just curious, is there a centralized "cooperation board" or reconciliation project for Balkans articles? If not, it might be worth setting one up. That way uninvolved admins could monitor the page, and it would be an easy way for involved admins (such as yourself) to post notices about editors that you though should be placed under restrictions, and then uninvolved admins could make the call. --El on ka 03:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

To Chris: Yeah, I noticed there's been some confusion over that in the Balkanian case too. There's an ambiguity in the term "warning/notification". Does it mean: "I just want to make sure you are aware there's that rule in place", or does it mean: "I want to make sure you are aware there's that rule in place, and you are currently running the risk of having it applied to you, the way you've been acting"? I personally find that the second type of message is a lot more helpful, because the first type leaves the addressee confused whether their behaviour has been coming across as disruptive or not, and whether or not they are expected to change it. It's also much more in line with how "warnings" are used elsewhere. We don't go round telling people: "Hey, did you know you can't make more than three reverts in a day", unless they are actually revert-warring. But if these notifications are supposed to be of the "warning" type, the person who makes them should be competent to make them. That doesn't mean they need to be the same uninvolved admin that might also carry out the sanction, not even that they need to be an admin, but it should only be done by experienced editors who can truthfully claim they have an objective, neutral judgment of the situation and know very well in what circumstances these sanctions are likely to actually happen. So, not usually a direct opponent in a dispute, for instance. I've given these warnings myself in some cases where I was "involved" and knew I wouldn't be allowed to carry them out myself – but then, I know very well that even in such situations my opinions carry some weight and that if I ask for sanctions, it's likely they will happen, so I thought the warning was fair.

I'm opposed to having warnings themselves logged at the Arbcom pages as if they were already a kind of sanction. If people want to do that, then of course the criterion for who should warn and when should be a lot stricter: only an independent admin and definitely only where actual disruption has already occurred.

To Elonka: No, we don't have a specialised Balkans bord. Suggesting sanctions has so far been done either on WP:AE or on individual admins' talk pages – typically either mine (often "involved") or Moreschi (typically "uninvolved"). A new bord might be a good idea, but I'd say only if it doesn't end up as a place only for asking to get other people sanctioned; there is a danger it might degenerate into that. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you had a chance to look at my experiment page? It's been pretty successful, IMHO. I've been putting together a set of tips at WG wiki on how other such projects can be setup, in case you'd like to add anything. Also, Folantin's group has been talking about putting together a "Cultural disputes noticeboard" that might serve a similar (though more general) purpose. See User:Folantin/Userspace Folantin5. --El on ka 06:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

As a followup, I just got this message on my talkpage, about Aegean/Macedonian/Greek issues.[6] I'd say that the timing for creation of a "Balkans" conflict resolution board is quite good. --El on ka 13:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be also a good plan to prepare one for Iranian issues as well, since there is significant resistance to any article that mentions unpleasant bits about the country, culture, history or people. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 16:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

We just launched the Wikipedia:Ethnic and cultural conflicts noticeboard. Feel free to direct people in that direction. :) --El on ka 19:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I know you are busy, but

Might I trouble you to help me find a deleted image removed via bot? I cannot seem to even find a listing nomination for its removal and, as this has come up before, I'd like to know how to find these things on my own, as well as maybe discuss the possibility of concreting some guidelines regarding article discussion notification when nominations are made. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 14:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Your best bet is to go to Special:Log and enter the name of the image [7], which gives you the deletion log entry; you can also click the redlink and then "What links here", which should show some incoming link if the image was previously at IfD or some similar nomination. In this case (looking at the deleted page) I can see that the deletion reason was purely formal, lack of explicit naming of the target article in the fair use rationale. Since I don't otherwise see a problem with the fair use claim, I've restored it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much on the explanation. Some of it still escapes me, but it will prolly sink in as time goes by. As well, I am curious about how long the waiting period is before deletion for these two charming images (1, 2). - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 21:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Normally five days from nomination, like AfDs, but it sometimes takes a few more days until someone passes by and closes it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 04:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. :) - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 05:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Map of Kosovo

I really hope you edit that existing map, you're right it is better. I'm up to my neck policing that article myself, your presence is always appreciated. And I truly hope you make that new map. Beam 13:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Map

I have not responded to other, similar linguistic maps because they seem motivated by criteria against which one cannot argue constructively. But this latest one is different, it purports scientific backgroud and calls on the wikipedia and academic experience of its author. Politis (talk) 16:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic and cultural conflicts

Hello, An issue you have been involved in editing has been brought to the Wikipedia:Ethnic and cultural conflicts noticeboard. If you wish to have an input on the discussion of the topic, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Ethnic and cultural conflicts noticeboard. Thank you. PMK1 (talk) 11:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kostas Novakis

The article Kostas Novakis has been completely changed by 157.228.x.x into one which I can only argue as POV pushing (Revision history of Kostas Novakis). The current article has removed most Macedonian sources which shows he states his language is Macedonian, he is ethnic Macedonian and so on. I luckily have saved Macedonia related articles which I knew would be changed constantly:

You can easily compare this to the current article to view it is in fact POV pushed. Since I cannot edit Macedonia related issues, please use this template to create an article which is fair and neutral. Mactruth (talk) 23:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mactruth Ban + Macedonia (region) + Macedonia (Greece)

I wanted to state that my block is over but I have been banned from Macedonia related issues for 2 months. I wanted to state my POV, which was I felt that there was a bias in terms of reaction to complaints. I complained for a week about the article, which is still monopolizing under the article name history of modern Macedonia (Greece) even though you renamed it "History of Greek Macedonia." The reasoning for the monopolizing is that is still states "modern." If I made an article called "History of modern Macedonia (Republic)" it would be changed immediately, which is my main complaint. When a Greek made a complaint about me redirecting articles, you immediately reacted. I have gotten over it and have learned my lesson, but I must insist that no reaction bias should be considered in the future. Mactruth (talk) 23:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is what I posted in the article History of modern Macedonia (Greece):

The article name is still monopolizing the term "Macedonia." I must ask the Greeks, what would be your reaction if I created an article entitled "History of modern Macedonia (Republic)"? You would object to monopolization. I believe a good compromise would be:

History of Macedonia (Greece) - this is consistent since "Republic of Macedonia" has the article "History of the Republic of Macedonia" therefore the article "Macedonia (Greece)" should have the article "History of Macedonia (Greece)" to be consistent.
History of Greek Macedonia - The name implies it is the Greek region of Macedonia and it differentiated from the Republic of Macedonia without monopolization. Mactruth (talk) 23:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

In terms of the article Macedonia (region) below to the "See also" section, "History of Greek Macedonia" is directed to History of modern Macedonia. Please direct the page to the appropriate article. Mactruth (talk) 23:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

By the way isn't this [8][9][10] [11]some sort of improper canvassing? --Laveol ^T 00:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it is canvassing, I tried to make it a friendly notice. I kept a limited posting, I don't believe I had a POV, I simply posted articles. And it is open (I don't understand how it would be closed). Mactruth (talk) 01:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Anyways, if you want to discuss that, make a separate topic, instead of coming into this topic and trying to distract the issue with a new one. Mactruth (talk) 01:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps the greater region article should include all history up to modern times (when?) and the sub-regional ones, "history of macedonia (greece)", "history of the republic of macedonia" etc. only modern events? Otherwise, there'll obviously be some overlapping. The concept of a "Macedonia", of course, changed throughout time. Then again, we project modern boundaries into the past in every "History of X country" article, anyway. 3rdAlcove (talk) 00:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Mactruth, your whole complaint about my "inaction" regarding that article is based on a misunderstanding of what administrators do. It is not an administrator's job to rectify content problems. Admin intervention is about technical help and about behavioural issues. What you spotted was a content issue; the solution was to enter into a normal discussion with whatever other editors felt like discussing it, try to work out a consensus about a better naming, and then (if technically necessary) call in an administrator to help with carrying it out. With 3rdAlcove you had a reasonable person on the "other side" to discuss with, and I'm sure you could have worked this out reasonable and calmly. In my function as an admin I'd have no business intervening in that debate before it would have been concluded (unless I had wished to join the discussion in my function as an editor, but I didn't really feel like it, that moment.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 04:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

And by the way, this [12] kind of canvassing is certainly unconstructive. "Tell other Macedonians to help!" comes across as a quite overt call for recruiting meatpuppets to join on the Wikipedia battlefield. Not good. Also, my understanding is Moreschi's topic ban was intended for "all pages across Wikipedia". I'm not sure to what extent that is supposed to cover user talk pages, but it certainly does cover article talk pages. Plus, please don't use your user page as a political soapbox. Fut.Perf. ☼ 04:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Future, I wish the definition of Admin was given to me a while back, now I feel foolish for immediately asking for Admin intervention. I thought before changes would occur (that would be contraversial) Admins were needed to be contacted. Well I'll keep that in mind. Mactruth (talk) 05:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't realize it was canvassing. When I stated tell other Macedonians to help, I meant just that. Because it seems like they are the ones doing the most work, and not getting much help in having the Macedonian view presented. I didn't mean it like "grab a groupie and start internet wars" I simply meant that they shouldn't be the ones constantly doing it 24/7. Moreschis ban was stated to me that it is Macedonia related topics, I'm not sure if its all pages, but that was not indicated to me based on what was written on my discussion, but I'll double check. Mactruth (talk) 05:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

"I'm banning you for two months from all pages across Wikipedia that relate to Macedonia: in addition, you are banned indefinitely from creating or altering any redirects that relate to Macedonia." I didn't find anything to indicate talk or discussion pages were banned. Mactruth (talk) 05:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Varieties of Modern Greek

I found in Kontosopoulos ("Dialects and Idioms of modern Greek", 2008 - first edition 2000) an excellent table about the phological and grammatical dialectical features throughout the Greek-speaking areas, with indications if they are widely, not frequently etc. used (four levels). But it has in Greek a series of terms (στένωσις των ατόνων, ατελής συνίζησις, ασυνίζητες καταλήξεις, απουράνωσις των συριστικών, διάσυνσις των συριστικών etc.) which are Greek to me! We could enter this table in the article, or even make a map based on it (although I think that the latter is a dissicult task).

In any case, thanks to your efforts all these years the article is at a quite good level. With a "little pushing" I think it could reach the top of the project's quality list. But the last thing I want to do is to make you feel that I try to "usurp" your legitimate rights on the article. I worked a bit an the article, because I saw a potential, but I want to continue only if you don't have a problem, and if you are interesting in co-operating to bring the article to FA status. In such a case, it would be a pleasure to work together and co-nominate the article. In case, you want to work it alone wherever you have time, it is again ok with me. Respectfully,--Yannismarou (talk) 07:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, that Kontosopoulos source sounds great! Is there a chance you could make the relevant pages available somehow? In some of the cases I can pretty well imagine what he means (a number of his terms probably match the phonological variables we are already discussing), but it would be much easier to come up with appropriate translations if I had one or two examples of each for illustration. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm .... I think I can, but I think I have to study all his book (μπουυυυυυυ). Anyway, I'll also see If I can scan the table. I'll come back with the phainomena in details, and with examples! Cheers!--Yannismarou (talk) 13:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question

The article Georgi Puleski is totally wrong. That man is not called GEORGI as Laveol wants but his name in Gjorgjija Pulevski. I have changed the name og the article but mr. Laveol does not want to accept it. Please, react, because his name is not GEORGI. It is same as if we change the name of George Bush into Gregory Bush. And also, there should not be BG categories. That article is full of bg propaganda. Thanks.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

You've been playing with articles all day long. I'll paste my explanation here so Fut. Perf. can see as well. We already had a couple of similiar disputes so I pretty much know the answer to this one:

As Fut.Perf. already explained English language usage defines the name of the article. So Google books:

Georgi Pulevski 15 hits
Gjorgija Pulevski 2 hits

Google Scholar:

Georgi Pulevski 14 hits
Gjorgija Pulevski 2 hits

To sum it up - on the same bases on which the article Makedosnko devoiche is with the MK transliteration, this one has to be Georgi Pulevski.--Laveol ^T 18:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

By the way what happens if someone is on a civility password and in the same time tells me to piss off on en wiki and to go f*ck myself on ru wiki? --Laveol ^T 18:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I suggest the name to be written on Zulu language because maybe there are more written text. Stupid thing. He is Macedonian and the name should be on his language not as Laveol wants. --MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

What russian Wikipedia? What about it?--Raso mk (talk) 19:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

You know more than well. Tons of ethnic Macedonians living in Germany know me, isn't that right.--Laveol ^T 19:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Raso blocked by Moreschi, beat me to it by two minutes. Diff to ru? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

f*ck your (not sure what this is), you scabby dog, shush, vulgar or something like that I'm not sure what he meant there - I assume he was trying to write something in Russian. And it's definitely Raso cause his IP comes from Germany and he made his first revert with the words "you start it again". --Laveol ^T 19:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, 77.183.*.* is Raso's known IP range. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't speak to the "correctness" of any of these name forms, but we do normally prefer whatever is most common in English, Laveol is right about that. Laveol, could you please check whether the same argument also goes for our friend G. P(a?)rli(c|č|ch)ev? The Pr... variants seem to be more common in western scholarship. Oh, and both of you, if you're interested in name variants, please make sure all plausible variants have redirects, that's always non-controversial. – Another thing, MacedonianBoy, can I ask you something about Macedonian dialects? We were discussing this guy Kostas Novakis and his folk song collections today. Just out of curiosity, could you check whether the titles of his CDs are in standard literary Macedonian, or in the local (lower Vardar) dialect? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I would love to edit on EN Wikipedia, but when i see Laveol's edits I am losing the will for editing and also this BG propaganda is tooooo much spread away here so I totally lost any will desire or wish to edit here. Untill Laveol is here we cannot have neutral Wikipedia --MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

By the way, you guys are both pretty deep in revert-warring. 3R on Dame Gruev? If I may comment on that one, do we really need trivial transliteration variants such as "Damjan" vs. "Damyan" and so on? "j" versus "y" is so incredibly trivial I'm not sure we ought to be wasting screen space on it. Redirects, yes, sure, but bold and in the lead and everything? English-speaking readers will never know what the difference is supposed to be, and if I couldn't guess it's a Macedonian-versus-Bulgarian thing I wouldn't understand either. Please please bear in mind that 99.9% of the world population really don't give a fuck about how to transliterate from either language. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

On the line there:) --Laveol ^T 19:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to communicate, but all my efforts get deleted from his talkpage. --Laveol ^T 19:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

But there are too many names and it is a bit confusing. Please edit that section.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Glad to see you've changed your mind about English, Laveol. Can we move Ilinden-Preobrzhenie Uprising to Ilinden Uprising now? Balkan Fever 07:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ARBMAC

Do you think I should refer the recent user:157.228.x.x situation to Moreschi? Balkan Fever 13:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

As I can see you were also edit-warring on the verge of breaking the 3RR. So it is more of a 157.228.x.x-Balkan Fever situation.--Yannismarou (talk) 13:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure is. But take a look at his slow edit warring on those pages before today as well, not just this thing with me. Balkan Fever 13:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It needs two to dance a tango.--Yannismarou (talk) 13:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

So should I leave a note at Moreschi's? And I think you mean It takes two to tango :) Balkan Fever 13:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Correct!--Yannismarou (talk) 16:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CDs

If we are talking about the Audio samples, yes they are on standard Macedonian language and also on the Solun dialect. --MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I actually meant the titles as written, like "Бело поле до Белото море" and so on. What exactly do you mean by "and also"? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It means that the name is equally spelled and pronounced on Standard Macedonian Language and on Solun dialect. regards--MacedonianBoy (talk) 20:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Macedonian Canadians

I was on looking at sources as you suggested (btw when I said hoax I meant it in the way that this was not an actual Macedonian church, but nevermind) when I saw the article as a whole was copied from the Canadian encyclopedia. Should it be re-written, cause it surely has the same text? --Laveol ^T 21:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Holy shit, you're right. A blatant copyvio from the very start, and we had it for over a year. I've deleted it. Needs to be rewritten from scratch. Thanks for spotting it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit-conflict) Well, I was about to ask if we're allowed to re-create it and start it all over. I guess this answers my question. I hope no one will be mad at me, cause I didn't mean for this to happen. Even I think the article is worth it. --Laveol ^T 21:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

You Deleted Macedonian Canadians, can i have a look at the old version please. I was after the pictures and some more information which i could add to it thanx.PMK1 (talk) 05:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] MacedonianBoy

I'm having real trouble communicating with him. He has spent the whole day re-arranging the names and removing valid categories which he doesn't like [13], removing wikiproject banners [14] that he doesn't like and generally removing stuff his doesn't like. I don't want to take part in the lamest edit-war ever, but he's been rather disruptive. I saw you already got familiar with his edit on the Macedonian language article.--Laveol ^T 10:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Do making conflicts on your own. We both have equall status here so I can edit as much as you can edit here. This is not war and BTW this is not your Wikipedia, here can edit every user. And it is not destruptiv just making the neutrality more visble because every fucking article is full of BG propaganda. That is not good for the neutrality that we want to get.And you are working on the same way as I work now. Do not complain all the time because you are reverting every single edit from every single macedonian --MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll leave this without any comments. Making the neutrality more visible says it all. --Laveol ^T 10:27, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

So accourding to you, the current situation is neutral? --MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

According to me there are issues in every article, but what you're doing is plain disruptive and it really resembles a child playing with a toy. Switching Bulgarian and Macedonian, removing Bulgarian cats and leaving only names that you like really helps build an encyclopaedia. --Laveol ^T 10:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Just removing names that are not true. I have only put MK cats. :) --MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

And removed bg ones--Laveol ^T 10:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I have NOT removed BG cats.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you stick to your word? --Laveol ^T 10:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Just to make sure you don't block us for 3RR - we haven't reverted each other on every single article - we've mostly removed promacedonia.com links, although MacedonianBoy doesn't want to remove the MK nationalistic site. --Laveol ^T 11:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Theu are not nationalistic. I know which one are nationalistic and they are not on Wiki. --MacedonianBoy (talk) 11:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)