Talk:Fuse (explosives)

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[edit] Redirect?

Hi - making a change for clarity.

As the article uses the American spelling 'fuze' throughout surely it should be moved to that title with this spelling (fuse) kept as a redirect? Lisiate 21:59, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fuse vs. Fuze

The article is currently rather confusing on the distinction between the two spellings "fuze" and "fuse". It suggests that "fuze" is the correct spelling in the US and the UK, and "fuse" is correct elsewhere (where?). In the five online dictionaries I checked (OED, WordNet, dictionary.com, MSN encarta dictionary, Merriam-Webster) none give this distinction. All of them list "fuze" as an alternative spelling of "fuse" (in the context of an explosive detonator); some claim that it is used "often" or "usually" (but don't give it its own entry).

An older version of this page claimed that "fuse" was for simple detonators (like the cord on a firecracker) and "fuze" was for actual detonating devices. It was taken out with a comment about "artificial distinction". Some cursory Googling supports this usage.

What is the real distinction, if any? --Andrew 22:12, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

The distinction you took out is exactly what I was taught in my military service, i.e. fuSe is a piece of safety fuse or similar material which burns down at a set rate to provide a simple pyrotechnic time delay to a charge, while a fuZe is a complex device used to control the detonation of an explosive weapon. However a few google tests do not support this as being a common usage, at least in Internet land; in every word combination I tried, fuZe came up as much rarer than fuSe. It might be most correct then to say that fuZe is used mainly by military ordnance types. Securiger 15:30, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Just to clarify: I didn't take it out, and in fact, I favour your usage (since I think it's what people who know what they're talking about use). --Andrew 23:04, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

My apologies, I misparsed "It was taken out" as passive voice! Securiger 17:23, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Isn't 'fuze' just another Americanism, like 'analyze'? My Oxford English dictionary says fuze is the American spelling of fuse. I had not heard of a fuze, until I stumbled across this page. Sprintstar 14:48, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'm Australian. Securiger 17:23, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)


No,

Fuze and fuse are NOT interchangeable, nor an Americanism. In addition to NATO, most unfriendly nations also agree that a fuse is different from fuze. Military usage supercedes common usage. As a Bomb Tech, I see our usage as no different than if we were arguing a plumbing term. I would trust the plumbers over a dictionary.

-Shawn srh@esper.com 7/4/2005


Here are some sources from the US Gov. that deal with fuzes

  • MIL-STD-331 Fuze And Fuze Components, Environmental And Performance Tests For
  • MIL-HDBK-777 Fuze Catalog Procurement Standard And Development Fuze Explosive Components

and these sources are ratified by other countries in NATO

  • NATO STANAG 4369 Design Requirements for Inductive Setting of Large Calibre Projectile Fuzes
  • NATO AOP-22 Design Criteria and Test Methods for Inductive Setting of Electronic Projectile Fuzes
  • NATO STANAG 2916 Nose Fuze Contours and Matching Projectile Cavities for Artillery and Mortar Projectiles

The tiles to these documents can be found by seaching here. This site also in lists some other standards with fuze in title.--138.162.0.43 19:02, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

General dictionaries describe how words and spellings are used by populations at large, which includes the mentally lazy and ill-informed. This implies that if a population constantly mis-spells or misuses a word or phrase, that is what the dictionary must and does list. It is not an authority on correct usage. I agree with the poster above, about trusting the plumber's usage of his specialist terms - and militaries in English-speaking countries use fuze for gadgets to ignite ammo. z = bang. No confuzion. So in Wikipedia articles specifically about ordnance and ammo, z is the way to go. Rcbutcher (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Remove merge recommendation

Can we remove the merge articles suggestion, as it's clearly in error and a result of someone's fuse/fuze confusion? I will do it in a week if nobody objects. Georgewilliamherbert 03:20, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the merge articles suggestion should be removed 138.162.0.41 13:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fuze vs. Fuse

I just want to say that as a born and bred American, a native speaker and the holder of a graduate degree, that I have never, ever seen the word "fuze" before. When I first saw it here on wikipedia, I assumed that it was a Britishism. Now, the 'z'-spelling may have currency as a very specific kind of device, but I would say that to call it an Americanism is patently false, as an alternate spelling for 'fuse'. My two cents, at least. 70.92.1.10 04:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm a United States Marine and an ammunition technician. Fuzes are, among other things, ancillary items required to detonate our rounds, and you'll also find fuzes inside, for instance, hand grenades. As stated above, fuses are slow-burning materials that detonate an explosive (or, even, as with a fragmentation grenade, a fuze) in a set period of time. A fuze initiates a high-explosive train and detonates a main charge. 68.118.13.103 05:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Fuse & Fuze are the same thing, the Z version does not denote anything different to the S version
No, they aren't the same thing. Please read all the above. Military usage is consistent. Georgewilliamherbert 18:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually they are the same thing, the only distinction is in the Americanisation of the term fuse. If you trained outside of the US, you would find the term fuse used to denote anything from a burning fuse to a VT etc. In fact the term fuse, is referenced by The United States of America in several patent applications, and can be referenced online on various US websites, so even in the US ther term fuse is used by many. "TheNose | Talk" 19:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I have in my posession English, German, Israeli, and NATO weapons operational manual and design specification documents that use "Fuze" in the US standard method (and that's just on quick look, I've probably got more around somewhere). This is not just an americanism. Please read the above discussions - this keeps coming up, and there's plenty of evidence that in at least significant parts of the world there is a difference in the terms. Even if it was only in the US (and it clearly ISN'T), it would require noting that the usage is different in places. Georgewilliamherbert 19:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


Quoting "in the US standard method", I wasnt aware Wiki was American only.
UN in Pakistan refer to Artillery fuse[1]
Daily Telegraph Quoting American Human rights watch regarding an incident in Gaza[2]
US Military MSDS Safety Information for M762 ARTILLERY FUSE[3]
I could go on, but as fuse is the same as fuse, and all my training manuals refer to fuse. "TheNose | Talk" 19:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
The first 2 citations are popular press articles, which are not reliable sources for precise technical jargon within a field. The last is a Materials safety data sheet, which uses "fuse" at the top (again, this is a popular and not specific military or explosives field document) and then about a page down says that the precise name for the item is a "Fuze".
There's no dispute that there are tendencies for popular usage to use them interchangably. There is clear consensus that at least in the US, and in many foreign military documents (not UN, actual military usage), Fuse and Fuze are different. Specific technical usage in a field trumps popular misuse of terms. Please stop making this change. Georgewilliamherbert 19:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
If I might make a suggestion:
One way to approach this issue would be to keep the fuse/fuze distinction (as it does seem to be legitimately used in a substantial number of sources), but also add a section discussing the terminology per se and outlining the various subtleties (of which I suspect there are many, not least the CoEn/AmEn issues) with the use of each term in different contexts. Kirill Lokshin 20:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


I would respectively disagree, the 2 spellings of the word fuse have the same meaning. Just because some people have taken to using a different spelling to describe what is fundamentally the same thing "something that causes something to burn/detonate or deflagrate". The use of the word dates back hundreds of years and can still be referenced to modern day munitions used in WWI, WWI, Korea, Vietnam, Falkland Islands, Suez, Gulf 1 & 2 and so on. In fact references to the word fuse can be found in the US patent database to describe IPR in modern day artillery shells/equipment. The correct spelling is fuse, I agree some people have chosen to spell it differently that is fine, but not necessariuly correct. Why does Georgewilliamherbert chose to keep reverting my amendments (3 reverts today), further more why revert chnages made after the correction of the spelling. "TheNose | Talk" 22:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Fuze is correct by US military standard and in common use within NATO countries and former Warsaw Pact countries, China, India, Israel, and even English defense industry; that's enough to leave the article as-is at least pending more detailed discussions here. Please stop making the changes to the article (fuze->fuse) until we have an adequate chance to discuss it here on the talk page.
If I reverted another edit of yours, unrelated to the fuse->fuze spelling, then I apologize. I didn't spot that in the article history. Feel free to re-add it.
Thanks for engaging in the discussion here. Georgewilliamherbert 22:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) The reverting of other changes is unfortunate, and hopefully something that won't be repeated; in any case, everyone should be discussing things rather than just forging ahead with large-scale modifications of the article.
As far as the question of "correct" spelling: it's clear that there is some distinction in how the terms are (correctly or otherwise) used—even if only one of national dialects—and this ought to be documented in the article. Whether the distinction need actually be employed throughout the text is something that might better be answered by a more thorough comparison of different sources to determine how prevalent any actual fuse/fuze usage difference is. (This comparison, would, incidentally, provide ample sources to actually document the dispute itself, as well.) Kirill Lokshin 22:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Fuze and Fuse references

Let's drop references info here in a new section. Georgewilliamherbert 22:49, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The OED says a fuse is "A tube, casing, cord, etc., filled or saturated with combustible material, by means of which a military shell, the blast of a mine, etc. is ignited and exploded."

Merriam-Webster's Eleventh Collegiate says under fuse "1: a continuous train of a combustible substance enclosed in a cord or cable for setting off an explosive charge by transmitting fire to it 2 also fuze: a mechanical or electrical detonating device for setting off the bursting charge of a projectile, bomb, or torpedo. Tom Harrison Talk 00:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fuze

[edit] Fuse

[edit] US Government Definitions - no "fuze"

Please, just visit the US Department of Labor's dictionary of explosives terms. (The USDL regulates worker safety.) It never mentions "fuze". http://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/blasting.html Scott Adler 22:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

OSHA doesn't regulate military equipment. Look at all the DOD links above: this is a real, verified, confirmed, commonplace military munitions term. Georgewilliamherbert 04:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling

Fuze is what is written on artillery ammunition packaging in English speaking countries.

OFG Hogg in his 'Artillery: its Origin, Heyday and Decline'(1969)states the following(pg 183): 'The word "fuze" is often spelt "fuse" by those unaquainted with artillery usage. This is incorrect. "Fuse", derived from fusus, the past participle of fundo, means "to melt", e.g., the term "fuse-wire" used in electrical circuits. "Fuze", on the other hand, is the shortened or modern method of spelling "fuzee", meaning a tube filled with combustible material. It is a derivation of fusus, a spindle and from the French fusee, a spindle full of thread. It is well to make this point at the outset.'

You can use fuse wherever you want unless you are referring to the fuze that is a component of artillery ammunition.

Incidentally the word 'fuze' apears to have been standard in UK military use in the early 20th Century. Don't have any contemporanious documents to check earlier.

Nfe 07:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that just about ends the argument, Nigel ! Proof that fuze is in fact a different word, which unfortunately sounds like another unrelated word. Hence people get confuzed. If the military in all the English-speaking countries insist on fuze, I think Wikipedia articles dealing with ammo and ordnance should follow. British ordnance manuals as far back as 1872 used fuze exclusively. As in Pettman's General Service Fuze.Rcbutcher (talk) 13:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spolettes (I think it is spelled with one o)

As far as I know these are most commonly created with a thick walled paper tube instead of a hollow wooden dowel.

The spolette is also most often ignited by the quickmatch leader fuse rather than the lift charge (the shell is loaded with the spolette oriented upwards to reduce pressure on this weak spot, the solid disc in the other end of the shell can handle more pressure) the lift charge is then ignited by a passfire fuse (quickmatch) connected to the spolette and placed along the side wall of the shell towards the bottom where the lift charge is placed.

Pyrotechnica IX and XI contains articles by A. Fulcanelli where traditional Italian / American shell design is described in great detail. Ere 09:47, 3 July 2007 (UTC)