Talk:Full stop

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[edit] How many spaces after periods?

Half of my 8th grade teachers say two spaces, the others insist one space. Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.131.250 (talk) 20:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Since "!" redirects to Exclamation mark, should "." rediect to this full stop page? I only ask because I'm not sure if Wikipedia:MediaWiki will break if a page exists that's only a dot. --Esse 19:46, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

i don't know why.. but there is no dieresis on the page, i don't know the symbol on the page. dieresis is the two dots above an i or other character to indicate two vowel sounds. eg. Naive.... but it would have two dots above the i.

Can it really be said that people with dyslexia often prefer two spaces if the only source that is cited is a website where the author admits his informal study is asking his friends with dyslexia? --69.180.214.16 (talk) 18:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, and I've removed that paragraph because (a) the citation doesn't support it (indeed, it says nothing about dyslexia or about dyslexics' preferences) and (b) the citation doesn't even purport to support it, only indicating that people exist who think it's true. Well, there are people who exist who think just about anything imaginable is true, but the point here is to give information that is supported by facts. —Largo Plazo (talk) 20:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Full stop or period

The beginning of the article says that a full stop is the dot at the end of a sentence, whereas a period is that dot and any similar thereto (excluding the three in ellipses.) So a full stop is a period but a period is not necessarily a full stop.

Yet, the article goes on to call the "." after Mr and Dr a "full stop." According to the foregoing statements, this dot is a period, not a full stop, since full stops are only the periods at the end of a sentence.

So does "full stop"="period", or is "full stop" a type of "period." Which is it? 70.145.102.253 06:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

This article is in need of serious revision. It is flat out absurd to say that anyone in the US uses the phrase "full stop," or "generally differentiate[s]" between one and a period. In American English, the period is any "." whatsoever. 65.247.226.95 09:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. And in the U.S., the term "period" is used for emphasis, as in "You will not question your commanding officer's orders, period." This article fails to expand upon that, and generally marginalizes U.S. spelling and usage entirely. It is currently a British-centric article in need of revision. 161.149.63.106 (talk) 21:40, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Even the phrase "full stop" is noted as antiquated and incorrect by the article itself saying it was originally used in telegraphy at the end of a telegram, not the end of a sentence, and that "stop" was only used in place of a period. What on Earth did the British call it before the use of telegrams? --68.210.12.10 (talk) 01:47, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The article is wrong then. Full stop has been used for several hundred years, long before the invention of the telegraph. In answer to your question: the British (and the Americans) documentedly called it a full stop before the invention of the telegraph. Saltation (talk) 21:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inside or outside quotation marks

The beginning of the article defines "a full stop is the dot at the end of a sentence". However, if the dot is placed inside quotation marks, as in "a full stop is the dot at the end of a sentence.", it clearly is no longer the end of the sentence (similarly there should be no commas inside quotation marks) so either the definition, or the usage of ' ."' is wrong. MH 12:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd say the dot is incorrectly placed in your example. My example: _The man asked "Where am I?"._ (Using underscores here around my example so the quotes characters don't get confusing.) The dot comes after the quote character, because it's not a part of the quote, but instead of the parent sentence which still needs to be terminated properly. In this case the quote is a question, so it's ended with a question mark. I'd say if the quoted sentence wasn't a question, you'd still need a dot, but knowing the people who are in charge of language rules, this is probably not the case (similar to how (according to this article) abbreviations at the end of a sentence aren't ended by two dots like I think they should.

If it's just a word, you wouldn't need the dot inside the quote characters, but you would need one to end the parent sentence. According to the "Differences in British English and American English" part of the article this is true in English, but no in US English. I say the English way makes much more sense. Also because of being used to programming a little bit, I'm all for consistancy as opposed to making up exceptions in order to try and cut down the number of interpunction items and breaking logic. The "Differences..." part of the article doesn't mention whole sentences as quotes, just words, so that doesn't really give an answer though. Retodon8 13:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dot product

People who were taught to use a middle dot as a decimal point, (like me) were also taught to use a lower dot - like a full stop - as a Dot product in maths. We did, however, make it bolder than a normal full stop. However, I can't see a different glyph for that, so I suppose we should just use a full stop. Comments? 212.159.57.61 13:28, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Asian Symbols

Someone who knows HTML or another scripting language needs to fix the smymbols under the Asian full stop headline so that they can be displayed in a variety of browsers. Right now under my Firefox browser it shows up as ? marks.

You need to install a font that includes Asian characters. This is not an issue with HTML or scripting.

[edit] STOP versus FULL STOP

I recall being taught as a youngster that FULL STOP was a term used by telegraphers. The term STOP was used (when sending a telegram) to indicate the end of a sentence. FULL STOP was used to indicate the end of the message. However, as so often happens with recollections from youth, I'm damned if I can find a reference anywhere that agrees with that. I'm still looking - but does anyone else recall being told/taught that decades ago? AncientBrit 18:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Western Union used STOP STOP to end a telegram. (Google for "stop stop" telegram for examples. N.B. Orville Wright's famous telegram from Kitty Hawk, however.) Of course, Western Union is American—no idea what they did in Britain.--MrDebaker 08:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Canada

"The term full stop is not used by speakers in the United States and Canada. If it is used in Canada..." - it looks a bit silly to say without qualification that it's not used in Canada, then immediately afterwards to explain how it might be used in Canada! 86.136.252.91 05:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] accessibility and spacing after a full stop

If there is to be any defining factor about spacing after a full stop, my opinion is that it should be accessibility.

Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome might be where the research is to be found. "Rivers of white" is what those with SSS have trouble with.

Rivers of white is common issue with full justification (significantly worse in amateur applications than professional applications because of hyphenation and character spacing). Double spacing after full stops with full justification would make the rivers of white marginally worse. Likewise, double spacing after full stops would make the rivers of white only marginally worse than left justification alone. It is marginal because it represents about 1/10th the frequency within a sentence.

I have found numerous sources on the web that express that double spacing after a full stop improves cognitive understanding. Since these sources mention nothing about monospaced / non-monospaced fonts, I have to assume a single non-monospace space after a full stop is insufficient for accessibility.

Since it is possible that a person with SSS could be different than another classification within dyslexia, the deciding factor could be what is more common between the two.

Since this is as far as my research can go currently, evidence suggests that double spacing after a full stop is important for accessibility.

My goal is to have accessibility mentioned in regards to 'spacing after a full stop' because it deserves mention to express that assessibility has been considered.

The issue of accessibility is important--my eyesight is bad and getting worse so I'm well aware of it--but it's maybe more to the point here that (1) like it or not, one space is now the standard, or at least the consensus choice of many typographers; and two spaces is deprecated; (2) monospaced fonts are rarely used; (3) with proportionally spaced fonts, it's usually fairly easy to see the end of the sentence coming; and (4) many systems will ignore all spaces after the first anyway. I put twelve spaces between the end of the last sentence and the start of this one, but they'll be ignored unless I miss my guess.

Two spaces after a period was a good idea in the age of the typewriter, but the original problem has been more or less solved, and the extra space isn't needed any longer, or is needed only rarely. As to the accessibility issue, I'd much rather have the lines farther apart and larger print in the "popular editions" of books.

This is all just my humble opinion, of course. --67.180.178.92 08:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2 questions

1 is

 interpunct: 5.2 · 2 = 10.4

really correct?

2 i was looking for the history of the dot when it was introduced... i was thinking maybe it was after the gutenberg press?

--- Something like that dot was used for writing Greek at least as far back as the ninth or tenth century (?) A.D. when lower case, the accents and breathings, etc. were adopted. The dot might be older than any of these, It was equivalent to a colon. 67.180.178.92 13:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Telephone numbers

There is a section that states the the period is gradually replacing the dashes in phone numbers in North America. It must be very gradual, because I have never seen a single instance of it. Maybe this is a Canadian/Latin American phenomenon; I think that anyone in the United States would be quite startled to see a phone number written this way. I am very emotionally invested in the traditional way of writing American phone numbers, and I tend to get angry when I see an area code written without parentheses; I think if I saw an American write a phone number with periods I would probably drop dead from apoplexy. I have seen phone numbers written this way overseas, and it didn't bother me there, I just assumed that was the way they did it.--Hgebel 17:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I removed the sentence stating that using the period was an ITU recommended alternative to using a space. I checked the referenced ITU standard and it had no recommended alternative. In fact, it recommends the use of parentheses around the area code (unless a country code is used) and spaces for the rest. It grudgingly allows use of alternatives to the space, but does not make any recommendations regarding what these alternatives should be. (It does, however, mention the hyphen as an example.)--Hgebel 18:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

After extensive searching, I was not able to find any reference to this alleged trend, nor was I able to find any United States or Mexican universities that use periods in their phone numbers. All of the Canadian universities I checked used periods, however, Canada is not, by itself, North America.--Hgebel 19:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if it's been discussed as an official trend or anything or been written about in a peer-reviewed medium (the problem with including this type of info in Wikipedia, as many minor things can't be cited in respectable sources), but it's certainly a trend. In fact, I find it quite astonishing that you claim to have never seen it--I've seen many examples on Web sites and even on stationery and business cards of numbers like 800.767.2676 or similar.cluth 01:27, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Full Stop merger,

+ Agreed. --Christopher 11:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In HTML

It seems unfair to me to say that standardized HTML is "siding unquestionably" with the one-spacers. The reason why more than one space at a time is not rendered is not to spite two-spacers. It's because of the way the markup language works. If you didn't have that limitation, it would be impossible to create neat HTML, since line breaks also show up as spaces. You'd have to put all your tags on one line. Chiyojo 23:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TomAYto, TomAHto

Shouldn't the American say:

I say "tomAYto," you say "tomAHto."

The question has nothing to do with punctuation and/grammar, but rather a matter of continuity. The question is more or less 'who is actually saying what?' not how they are saying it. The semantics of the conversation dialogue, as it stands, more closely represents an British person talking to a parrot. --NatePhysics 01:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha! NatePhysics, that's tantamount to how I put it originally. Someone then altered things in the interest of a spurious uniformity, and I did nothing to redress the monstrous impropriety so engendered. Thank you for noticing. Fortified by your opinion, I'll now put things right. – Noetica 01:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

The article says something along the lines of 'most typesetters these days use one space instead of two', and quotes a source, Dynamics in document design as saying "Use one space (not two) after these punctuation marks [sc. period, question mark, exclamation point, or colon], as the practice of using two spaces is just another holdover from using a typewriter" to support this statement.

It is easy to see that the quoted source does not match the claim made, unless it could be proven that most typesetters follow the prescriptions laid out in that source. Which isn't done in the article.

Either a new source must be found that does substantiate the claim, or a citation offered establishing that Schriver's prescription quoted above is accepted by the majority of typesetters, or the dubious claim must be removed. I have removed it in the interim, since as it stands it is unacceptable. Richard1968 13:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I have reinstated what you removed, Richard, and supplied unambiguous rulings from two of the most widely respected authorities, making three citations altogether. Please leave it alone, now. A word of general advice: you appear to be new on the scene, and it might be a good idea to be less trigger-happy! This article, and many in the area of punctuation, are the result of a great deal of careful work by experienced editors. Many of them are editors by profession, in fact. Just so you know!

– Noetica^♬Talk 13:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll accept the Chicago Manual of Style as being an indicator of what many people follow, yes. But it still doesn't establish 'most'. And hence it doesn't support the claim being made in the article. The only thing that would support that claim is not some citation of a piece of prescriptivism, no matter how well-regarded that prescriptivism is in whatever circles, but rather a citation of a reliable source which expressly supports the claim being made (for example, because the authors of the source have undertaken a scientific survey of typeset documents, and established the spacing used, coming up with a tally, and using a wide enough sample to justify the ampliative inference from the sample surveyed to the statement 'most', predicated over all typeset documents). This isn't so much about Wikipedia's idiosyncracies as about generally accepted standards for what citations support what claims.

Careful work by experienced editors or not, however, the citation as it was didn't establish that it was widely followed, only that it was prescribed by some person. And if these 'editors' you refer to wish to bring their expertise to bear as some sort of leverage in establishing the accuracy of their claims over those of others, then there are a few important things that would need clarification. First, that they are actually editors of reputable publishing houses, and not copy editing supervisors in the marketing department of some dodgy company; second, that they actually have some sort of say over the final typesetting of the documents they edit—since merely being an 'editor' is no guarantee that one has any control over the typesetting, only the form of the copy that gets given to the printer.

Most desktop typesetting (as opposed to word-processing) software overrides the whole issue anyway, and automatically sets a long space after a full stop irrespective of the input (or, they are sensitive to input but nevertheless set the spacing after a full stop differently to ordinary word spacing). As far as I know, both TeX and FrameMaker (with its 'smart spacing' enabled) automatically kern to an M/2 space, although FrameMaker treats it as a single character (whereas in TeX that's not an issue).

It's also important not to confuse the object of our discussion here. If we are talking about typesetting, then the issue is about spacing on the page, not how many characters there are, or how many keystrokes were entered into the machine to produce that output: we are concerned solely with the printed page, and how the characters are spaced on it; not to mention how this spacing is altered owing to the effects of full justification, if it is used, so as to prevent rivers—some typesetters (or typesetting software) might leave it constant, while others may adjust it along with the word spacing on the line, keeping all adjustments in proportion, and other kerning rules yet might be used! If we are talking about typing, then the issue is entirely dependent on the software (or apparatus, as appropriate) being used: since almost everyone would be in agreement that when typing in a monospaced typeface, as for example on a typewriter—though it holds for monospaced typefaces on a computer screen as well, one ought to use two spaces.

The thing is, there is a huge difference between the input given to a piece of software, and what the software's algorithms do, given this input, to produce a final product.

Perhaps the article should be changed to reflect all of this? Richard1968 14:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Richard, I have reworded parts of the paragraph, and redistributed the references to show how they support the different claims. Note that it is not necessary to cite statistical studies and the like to support the claim that most people have adopted a certain practice. The weight of evidence strongly suggests that this is so. That is sufficient support. Two of the sources describe a majority current practice, it seems. If you disagree with these sources, or are worried that the paragraph says something inaccurate despite this evidence, cite studies yourself: or style guides, or other respected references. So far you do nothing of the sort, but stubbornly ignore the deliverances of the most widely accepted authorities, calling for a standard of "proof" that is quite unreasonable in the present context. Don't set such onerous tasks for me or other editors, simply to meet standards that you want met. I, and others here, are working to perfectly reasonable standards – widely acepted throughout Wikipedia.

– Noetica^♬Talk 21:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

By the way, it took me ages to find that 'dubious' template I inserted into the article. Is there any central repository of such templates, for easy access? Richard1968 14:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding numbers at ends of sentences

This was in the article's section labeled "Mathematical usage":

A question that seems appropriate to consider at this point, given the nature of this entry, is whether a full stop should be used after numerals. That was what I wanted to know in coming here. I notice a full stop is used after "= 10,4." in the above paragraph, but not at its end "= 10.4".

I have placed an account number at the end of a sentence and want to know if a full stop is required after the final digit.

Interesting that I found it in the article itself--the anon editor apparently doesn't know the difference between an article and a talk page. In any case, I'm reposting it here just so it's not forever lost. The answer itself seems to be fairly straightforward (to me, anyway): all sentences end with periods, so a period would indeed go after the final digit, and I added the missing last period in the "Mathematical usage" section as such (the anon was referring to the missing period in his edit). I could be wrong, though... cluth 01:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dot Directory in MS-DOS

MS-DOS also uses . for the working directory. For this purpose every directory except the root dirctory contains a subdircetory called . which is hidden in the windows GUI, but visible in the command prompt if you enter dir.

When you enter dir in the command prompt the first two directory entries look like this (taken from the cmd.exe in the german version of Win XP):

26.12.2001 11:33 <DIR> . 26.12.2001 11:33 <DIR> ..
--Qaywsxedc 20:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This is your last chance, period.

Currently the article says:

The word "period", although recognised as an Americanism, is used more broadly as an interjection to terminate a phrase or thought with finality and emphasis, as in "This is your last chance, period."[1] The term full stop is also used in this sense in many parts of the world.

But I have never heard anyone who is not an American/Canadian(?) use the term, in other dialects it is "This is your last chance, full stop." As the word period is not used in British schools to mean full stop, the use of the word period in such a sentence would produce sniggers from any child over ten in Britain and bewilderment in younger children, so adults are highly unlikely the word when laying down the law to children. The given source does not support the contention that the phrase is used anywhere but were it is common to use "period" for "full stop" so unless one is found I suggest that the paragraph is removed. --Philip Baird Shearer 12:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Philip, it is said and understood in Australia. Here is the relevant part of the SOED entry for period:

As int. Added to a statement to emphasize a place where there is or should be a full stop, freq. (colloq.) implying finality, absoluteness, etc. Chiefly N. Amer. M20.

Chiefly American is not American simpliciter: a distinction SOED does make.

Here is the relevant part of the OED entry (a later edition than the SOED that I cite):

The point or character that marks the end of a complete sentence; a full stop (.). Also added to a statement to emphasize a place where there is or should be a full stop, freq. (colloq.) with the implication ‘and that is all there is to say about it’, ‘and it is as simple as that’.

No mention of Americanism at all. At least one of OED's more recent citations (1976) is British: "Shooting Times & Country Magazine".

Chambers, another highly respected British dictionary says in the entry for period, with no mention of our Vespuccian colleagues:

...the word is sometimes added at the end of a sentence to emphasize the finality of the statement...

Remember that the use of period to mean full stop comes from its meaning sentence: a sentence was a period (cf. the current use of the word in music), and the marker for the end of a sentence therefore came to have that name as well (cf. parenthesis being the word both for the brackets enclosing text and for the text enclosed). This usage long pre-dates American practice, and indeed American practice is founded on older but still recognisable British usage, in this and so many other lexical matters.

So I suggest leaving the text in the article as it is. I'll add a reference for it right now, yes?

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 12:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

OK you've done the right thing and made be look up the meanings in the OED!

In the OED are we looking at meaning period n., adj., adv. 17.b. "Now chiefly N. Amer. The single point used to mark the end of a sentence; = full stop n. at STOP n.2 18. Also fig." ? because I could not find the quote you are giving.

What I did see in the OED under "stop, n.2" was

"18. full stop.
- a. The end of a sentence; the single point or dot used to mark this; a period, full point."
- "b. transf. and fig. in various senses, e.g. a complete halt, check, stoppage, or termination; an entire nonplus. Also = PERIOD n. 11b."

But PERIOD 11b is not about the dot at the end of a sentence it is "[period.11] b. An end, conclusion; the point of completion of a process, etc. † to set down one's period: to reach a conclusion (obs.). to put a (also some) period to: to bring to an end. Formerly also † to give (also set) a period to." which AFAICT is a related meaning but another meaning from that given in this article. --Philip Baird Shearer 20:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Well done, Philip. We have both been diligent, but you have used the current OED, while I have used my CD-ROM version. Quite recently the continuing process of revision in OED has caught up with the entry for period and me unawares (to speak zeugmatically for the nonce).

Looking now at the evidence you present, and directly at the whole new entry from OED online, I still think the use of period supports the wording in the article well enough. As in SOED, it is now given as chiefly [North] American – indeed, as originally American, which is new information. But that still doesn't mean it is only American, or that others don't use or understand the word in that sense. We could simply appeal to Chamber's as evidence, in any case. Here is the directly relevant section of the current entry for period in OED:

C. adv. orig. and chiefly N. Amer. Indicating that the preceding statement is final, absolute, or without qualification: and that is all there is to say about it, that is the sum of it, there is no more to be said. Cf. STOP n.2 18b. [Which is: b. Now chiefly N. Amer. The single point used to mark the end of a sentence; = full stop n. at STOP n.2 18. Also fig. – Noetica]

Based on the use, in speech, of ‘period’ (see sense A. 17b) as a verbless sentence to indicate a place where there is or should be a full stop.

[1935 J. O'HARA Appointment in Samarra viii. 248 ‘An unscrupulous woman can make a man ’ ‘Period.’ 1946 Sun (Baltimore) 2 Oct. 8 (advt.) A cigarette is supposed to give you pleasure. Period. 1948 H. LAWRENCE Death of Doll i. 21 ‘Lucky Monny to have her own pocket.’ ‘Stop that. Lucky Monny, period.’ 1958 C. RICE & ‘E. MCBAIN’ April Robin Murders (1959) xxii. 245 But Browne doesn't care... He wants the money, period. 1974 H. L. FOSTER Ribbin' vi. 285 It is wrong for any teacher to have an affair with a student, period. 2001 N.Y. Times Mag. 8 July 15/1 Like it or not, you are going to learn something today. Period.

Let me reword things a little in the article, and update the OED reference, yes? If only the rest of the article had as much attention and soigné revision as this part.

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 22:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

If the derivation for the use of the word period in the sentence "This is your last chance, period." is period.11.b and not period 17.b. then I think that the sentences should be removed for two reasons. First it is introducing a confusion over the meaning of the word period (11.b instead of 17.b) and secondly I see no source for the WP:SYN "It is also widely used and understood in its derivative American sense" --Philip Baird Shearer 22:03, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

In accord with your own preference, Philip, I have deleted that material. The matter has got so convoluted that this seems reasonable. If anyone wants to put something back in that is more simply based on sound evidence, I think that would be fine. I might do that myself, sometime. Let me just say this. You started with a comment about your personal experience:

But I have never heard anyone who is not an American/Canadian(?) use the term, in other dialects it is "This is your last chance, full stop."

Well, as an astute observer of the spoken and written language over the years, I myself have encountered it in use by non-Americans, from British and Australian. But the experience of neither of us is relevant, unless we are going to be lax about Wiki protocols. We have the choice to be a little relaxed about these things, in fact. But if you prefer not to, I'll happily agree to do things by the book this time. (If we did that all the time, progress would be impossible!)

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 23:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It has been an education for me. I had always assumed the phrase was derived from the end of sentence usage. It is not a usage that crops up very often in speech -- so my sample size is not huge -- but outside North American usage I have only ever heard full stop used (And yes, I have spent several years in a number of different English speaking countries so I am not basing this experience on one regional dialect). Rummaging around in the OED like this reminds me of a programme called Call My Bluff! --Philip Baird Shearer 23:57, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I vaguely remember that show. It isn't that I was citing recently superseded OED text to confuse the issue, mind! I have not yet revisited this matter to verify what comes from where, in the current OED entry. I just haven't got time, so I'm happy for the moment not to have the article say something whose foundation is questioned. That's all. I might look again, some other time. The lesson for me is to check the latest OED, for citations of any importance.

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 00:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suspension mark?

The article includes this (with some slight recent modification that I have just applied):

In American English, these are normally written Dr. and Mrs. In this use, the full stop is also occasionally known as a suspension mark.

I have tagged the last claim as dubious. What is its source. As far as I know, the ellipsis (...) is sometimes called mark[s] of suspension; and the dash may be used to mark suspension also. But this full stop? I note that OED has something to say about such things in palaeography: not for full stops, and not beyond palaeography.

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 00:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quotations

There is currently a section called >==Differences in British English and American English==

But in the "Quotation marks" section of the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (see WP:PUNC) it says:

:Note: This is not an American versus British English stylistic matter: at least one major British newspaper prefers typesetters' quotation (punctuation inside) and BBC News uses both styles, while scientific and technical publications, even in the U.S., almost universally use logical quotation (punctuation outside unless part of the source material), due to its precision. Wikipedia uses logical quotation because as an encyclopedia it requires high standards of accuracy in the use of source material, and because logical quotation is far less prone to misquotation, ambiguity and the introduction of coding and other errors.(my emphasis)

One or the other seems to need correcting. If the MOS is correct I suggest that the terms British English and American English are replaced with logical quotation and typesetters' quotation --Philip Baird Shearer 12:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Philip, I think the easy solution is to add the word simply to the MOS text: This is not simply an American versus British English stylistic matter: ... That reflects the facts of the matter, it seems to me. I'll make that change myself, in a moment. As for this article, I'll have a look now, too.

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 22:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spacing in abbreviations

Is it recommended (if not mandatory) to use a space after a full stop used in an abbreviation as it is the case with languages like German for example?
For instance: i.e. vs i. e.
--131.234.66.9 (talk) 10:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)