Talk:Full breakfast

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[edit] Hash Browns?

Are Hash Browns a typical traditional full English (Scottish or Irish) fry ingredient? I would have said not - they're American, aren't they? Maybe this should be replaced with Bubble and Squeak.

edit: I like hash browns, don't get me wrong, but it's tradition, innit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.32.102.71 (talk) 15:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Atkins claims

Sorry, Atkins never claimed that bacon or a high cholesterol diet found in a full breakfast didn't increase the risk of heart disease. I deleted this. 152.3.85.176 00:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Mainly pork?

Is this strictly accurate? I have never referred to bacon as "pork", which I have always understood as meaning a different cut of meat entirely. The only "pork" in the dish, therefore, is the miniscule amount of ground-up trotters and gristle that one might find in a "pork sausage". Black pudding is also not "pork", as it isn't meat.

But is the dish even primarily pig meat, if that's what we mean by "pork"? It has eggs, beans, tomatoes, mushrooms, fried bread, toast, etc. TharkunColl 08:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely right. Someone changed it to pork products some time ago and it has just stuck there. Certainly there are no pork chops or ham (unless you're an American) in this kind of breakfast. Jooler 23:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] References

There are minor grammatical errors sprinkled throughout the article, but it could be just my american familiarity with English (and not knowing British maneurisms as well). I do want to make one point, however, about the References. Why is there a paragraph in the references section stating what the reference pertains? I don't think that references need to be annontated, and if there is something pertinent to the article in that reference, one should feel free to include it! I don't want to touch it if there was a reason for it being there. Thanks! WiiAlbanyGirl 00:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

you are right to mention it ... surely it should be quoted in the body of the article or not at all? Abtract 01:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I annotated the reference as evidience that "Full Breakfast" was a not neologism and was a term used throughout the British Isles as a the "shared name" for English/Scottish/Irish/etc. breakfast. Personally, I don't mind it going.
The grammar errors probably cropped up with I merged the articles. Sorry. --sony-youthpléigh 08:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate image

It is my opinion that the image named Full english Boy.jpg should be removed, since the person on it clearly is the main constituent of it, rather than the - rather blurry - meal that this article is all about. It might be considered a kind of vandalism to put up an image like that, since the one responsible might be accused of simply wanting to show the person on it. Besides, even if it was a good image of a Full English Breakfast, in my opinion there are already enough images showing one in this article. Taeronai 19:21, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed Abtract 19:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Auwww ... - I had quiet liked it, simply for its random funniness value. I thought it quite succinctly summed up the cultural value of the subject. But, I see the point in its removal. Is there another image that can replace it, showing a breakfast in situ, in its natural habitat, rather than just a plate of greasy food? Any ideas? --sony-youthpléigh 20:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Regional Variations

Is it not time to insert a section on regional variations of the 'Full English' having had a Irish breakfast or two, it is evident that there are differences. Scotch breakfasts have similar local trends. North/South English have variations. There may be others (London Grill etc).

Where did baked beans come from on a Full English anyway - it always feels like they are an add on due to lack of imagination.

A history of the evolution of the fry up might be an important section too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.79.166.250 (talk) 21:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Objections to Full Breakfast. Whilst searching for the term, "Ulster fry" I was pleased that I was immediately directed to an accurate description of an Ulster Fry. However searching for a "fry up" took me to Full Breakfast. I feel that full breakfast is a very poor title for the "fry up" whether it's Scottish, English, Northern Irish, Irish or Welsh. The fry up is a term exclusively used in the British Isles, were as a full breakfast is vague and could be used anywhere in the world.

I believe the purpose of the article is to express that "a fry" is a popular breakfast dish of the British Isles, with regional variations. It is often served as an all-day meal etc. It should have links to every regional variation accompanied with a photograph of each. bode.

Just a thought, but has anyone checked the references on the Scottish/Irish/Welsh version of the "Full" Breakfast? The Scottish one is a hotel where its presently called an English on their menu, the Irish ref is for an unknown catering company, and the Welsh one is for an EU promo event in Welsh food! Summary - all pretty useless references, and can't be considered reliable sources. Globally, the thing is normally called an English or fried breakfast, where as regionally I would accept that in the UK it's called a fry-up, and in Ireland an Irish or an Ulster Fry. There's Politically Correct and then there's just plain daft - and in the rules of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia, the references would only appear to support three options for a name: Full English, Fry-Up or Irish Breakfast/Ulster Fry. Can some one source some useful references if they think there are more regional variations from those three, but at present the article seems miss-named to me. Rgds, - Trident13 (talk) 02:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
You probably missed reference number 1. The "regional" refs are very poor, as you say, and in fact the issue before was that we had lots of "regional" articles bickering over how may black puddings should go into an XXX breakfast etc. based on these piss-poor references. Merging was impossible because no-one would give up on the XXX in the article title (as Ulster Fry still won't - based on the argument that an Ulster Fry is eaten at anytime during the day). Scottish and Welsh breakfasts, with some complaints, were folded into English breakfast. Irish breakfast was unmoving (and rightly so, Monty was an Irishman after all - "English" breakfast, my arse!). This was quite insane for a subject that is the same but for the name given to it - and topped off by people not even being able to agree on what was within their treasured regional "variation". Rules are clear, as you say: ignore them. --sony-youthpléigh 10:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes - normal "opportunity" and particularly with this one where the word "English" is a carte blache application word for anything which refers to this group of islands. The Welsh and Scottish versions of the breakfast are normally just the basic layout with a very specific regional sausage - its more of a regional marketing effort that a real variation. The Ulster Fry is distinct, and as a language term it is used all day - more akin to the use in Britain of the term fry-up: I therefore have a neutral view on merging, particularly with the naming issues here. Still, I think the point of this article is to focus on breakfast, so lets at least agree on that. Re regional variations, I think we could expand the regional variations and choices - bubble and squeak, chips, beans, etc; in a specific section. Thoughts? Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 21:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger with variants

It's time to Be bold and merge these articles. I am also copying the Talk pages of the merged articles here. The arguments about the "time of day" the meal is eaten does not mean that the Ulster Fry is not a variety of the Full Breakfast. The arguments for not merging Bacon and Eggs were pretty incoherent. BOTH the Ulster Fry and the Bacon and Eggs were tagged as "stub-quality" articles. They weren't going to get any bigger. It all belongs here. Let's make THIS article into a first class culinary article. Boldly yours, -- Evertype·✆ 10:32, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Good job! I agree fully with what you did. I just did some minor tweaking to reduce overlinking. --TimTay (talk) 10:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Are you going to complete the job now and blank other pages such as Ulster fry and put in a redirect to this article? --TimTay (talk) 10:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Working on that now. I have archived the Talk pages for Ulster Fry and Bacon and Eggs here on this discussion page as well. -- Evertype·✆ 10:43, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merges

I must say I disagree with some of these merges, especially the one of the Ulster Fry for several reasons.

  1. This has been discussed in the past, it's not a new thing, and no consensus to merge was ever reached so as a result I think the Be bold is maybe stretching it considering discussions have happens and this isn't a new thing.
  2. A proposal to merge was put on the talk page, then it was moved minutes later. If you start a section on proposals to merge then you should leave time for the discussion to happen, not just go ahead a couple of minutes later when no one has replied.
  3. The comment on the Ulster Fry merger proposal states "Depending on where it is served, it is called bacon and eggs; a fry, fry up, full English breakfast, full Irish breakfast, full Scottish breakfast, full Welsh breakfast or an Ulster fry." This is not supported and is actually an error in the Full breakfast article. There are no refs to support this claim, and the ref that is used is just for a recipe and makes no such claims to being a full breakfast, variant of a full breakfast or any other combination. Yes it mentions the word breakfast in the name but that's not what the ref is trying to support. Plus one recipe that mentions breakfast out of the thousands of possible supporting references is hardly representative.
  4. As has been pointed out before in various discussions, the Ulster Fry isn't necessarily a breakfast and isn't marketed, sold or otherwise as such. The claim has been made that places serve all day breakfasts to support putting it in, but that just seems faulty logic. The other items being referred to are and are commonly known as breakfasts, but are being served throughout the day, but the Ulster Fry isn't really a breakfast in the first place and doesn't claim to be. Steak and chips can be a breakfast item, but no one suggests putting it as an article on breakfasts. Canterbury Tail talk 13:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
None of the Full Breakfasts are necessarily eaten at breakfast time. Nevertheless all of these dishes or meals derive from the same source: a meal taken originally in the morning containing fried eggs and pork products with various other accompaniments. Both "Bacon and eggs" and "Ulster fry" were stub articles unlikely to grow in either size or quality. The interesting thing about these meals is their similarities and their differences, as well as their later geographic spread to North America and elsewhere. Although I put a proposal to merge, I quickly realized that I should have simply done the merger instead. The talk pages of all three articles consensus/non-consensus simply went round and round. The mealtime is not the salient feature which groups these meals together: is is the confluence of their ingredients. (Mealtime means little in a world where breakfast foods are available 24/7 in some restaurants.) All of these meals are "fries". Each is unique in having some ingredients that the others tend not to have. But I can think of only two reasons for not treating them all in one article. One is an accident of terminology.
Full Breakfast Fry
Full English Breakfast English Fry
Full Irish Breakfast Irish Fry
Full Scottish Breakfast Scottish Fry
Full Welsh Breakfast Welsh Fry
*Full Ulster Breakfast Ulster Fry
*Full American Breakfast Bacon and eggs :-)
It's accidental (not essential) that different terms are used for these meals or dishes. Their essential character is identical, however, which is why they should be treated in one article. Indeed, the entire Ulster Fry article was copied verbatim into this article and it serves simply to augment and improve the article and make it more interesting. The noble Ulster Fry is not "better off" in its own article. This article is better off for including it, however. And that brings us to the other reason I can think of for wanting Ulster Fry to be a separate article: Nationalism. Of course, Ulster diners should be proud of their cuisine. But that doesn't mean that in the context of an encyclopaedia the Ulster Fry is in its essence really different from these other fries. They are all fries, or, to use more formal language, they are all full breakfasts, at least in origin, and it is irrelevant (though very interesting!) if the Ulster Fry has evolved into a meal more often eaten at another time than first thing in the morning. There are, as you state, other breakfast meals with different ingredients, which would not belong in this article. The American Pancake Breakfast for instance, or Waffles or French Toast, all taken together in North America typically with Maple Syrup, would not belong here. The Fry or Full Breakfast evolved differently in England, the south of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Ulster, and North America. I stand by the move, as I believe that the logic for the move is better than any reason not to have made it. -- Evertype·✆ 16:04, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I have just added explanatory material at the top of the article regarding mealtime and the special development of the Ulster fry. -- Evertype·✆ 16:11, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I've never heard this meal referred to as a "fry". A "fry-up" certainly, but never a "fry".

Exile (talk) 19:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "often used as a hangover cure due to its high grease content"

Is grease a hangover cure? If not, please delete this clause in the "Variants" section. Softlavender (talk) 04:43, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Try it... :-) Seriously, food and drink and vitamin B6 are all known to help, and the "greasy fry" is one of the most palatable ways of ingesting those when hungover. -- Evertype·✆ 09:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chips and beans with a boiled egg

Next to "Full English Breakfast" there is a picture of a concoction entitled "Chips and beans with a boiled egg", I'm English and have never heard of such a meal. Further up is a picture of a "Full Breakfast" (presumably English) which lists the ingedients: scrambled eggs, bacon, sausages, black pudding, mushrooms, baked beans, hash browns, and half a tomato. Scrambled eggs, baked beans and hash browns play no part in a Full English Breakfast although they may well be served in lower class hotels.Stutley (talk) 23:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I've removed this picture because if there's one thing it isn't its a full English Breakfast. The contributor of the picture says it was his dinner! This article used to be about the Full English breakfast, now the Full English section is a couple of paragraphs of shite. Jooler (talk) 12:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Duplication

The part starting: "The meal was popularized in the United States by Edward Bernays "

is in the article twice. Wanderer57 (talk) 02:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Another bit of duplication is the mentioning of "All Day Breakfast" twice in the "Tradition" section. Whilst "so good they named it twice" might be a reasonable rationale elsewhere, I'm not sure it is here. Anyway, just saying, if anybody less idle than me wants to fix it.--194.247.53.233 (talk) 20:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Irrelevant

"Set six years later in Dublin of 1904, the opening of Ulysses by James Joyce contains a famous breakfast scene in which Leopold Bloom prepares and eats a fried pork kidney with bread and tea." What is the relevance of this? Stutley (talk) 13:25, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Evidently the breakfast scene is famous. -- Evertype·✆ 23:36, 21 May 2008 (UTC)