Talk:Fruit (slang)

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A fact from Fruit (slang) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 21 November 2007.
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To-do list for Fruit (slang): edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:


    • Research if any instances of blacks being called "strange fruit" either prior to or post-popularity of the Strange Fruit song.
    • Research, ref and add Fresh Fruit, multiple usages.
    • Research Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit - there was at least one research paper done on this probably more.
    • Research and ref "fruity"
    This page was previously nominated for deletion. Please see prior discussion(s) before considering re-nomination:
    • No consensus, 12 November 2007, AFD

    Contents


    [edit] Cockney

    "Tin of Fruit" in Cockney rhyming slang means "Suit" but there is no mention of this in the article even though you have a large section on Cockney.

    [edit] possible ref

    • Fruit also Fruit loop, fruit packer, butt fruit, etc[1]
      • Done. Benjiboi 08:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Almost exclusively?

    This definition of a slang term seems extremely biased towards LGBT and US terminology. For example "How're ya doin' me ol' fruit" is a very common expression in the south of England. Similarly "fruit cake" (as mentioned in the AfD) is a common expression that predates any usage of "LGBT" and means idiot, fool, mentally impaired. These are common expressions that are not linked to gay terminology, have no etymological basis in Polari but yet receive no mention in the article. It seems the title of the article has been forgotten totally and has become "Fruit (gay slang)". There's just too much bias and POV at the moment. ---- WebHamster 12:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

    I had to go where the sources led and am completely open to expanding or modifying text to address concerns. Please provide references we can use so we can sort out the best way to proceed. I have no doubt there is plenty more out there but I had to address all research within the time limit imposed by the Afd process and leave at least a day for voters to see that article could indeed be expanded. Benjiboi 23:30, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
    Well without being too specific at the moment your own research has shown that there are indeed usages in cockney rhyming slang, e.g. fruit gum = chum, fruit = suit (a Google for "fruit rhyming slang" will show more). CRS also predates Polari by quite a considerable margin, though obviously some of the terms have more recent etymology. What is clear though is that "Fruit" as a slang term is only a 'recent' phenomenon with regard to LGBT usage. As you probably know some, maybe even a lot, of Polari is based on CRS usage/terms. I don't have the time to do the required research at the mo', but I will get on it when I can. ---- WebHamster 23:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
    Coming up with specific dates on slang usage was not easy but there was also hundreds of sources I didn't get to so there still might be some goldmine out there. Disagree that LGBT usage is recent as there does seem to be evidence of it's use in the 1800s. Benjiboi 23:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
    Update. I've added sections covering both fruitcake and Cockney rhyming slang. Benjiboi 18:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] AfD

    Closed as No consensus. Although I disagree, as it was clearly Keep, the article is still here and alive. Awesome editing and rescue Benji. -- ALLSTAR ECHO 13:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

    No consensus? either the closer failed basic math, or the heterocentrists are sore losers:-s Jeffpw (talk) 13:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
    Thank you, I couldn't believe it went from prod to AfD with no tags, no discussion and seemingly no effort to improve it. I think it was non-admin close. I personally like a decent close that summarizes here are the outstanding issues so those who want to improve an article have more a clue what needs to be addressed. Also if characterizing this AfD closure incorrectly is true it might be a case of a friendly nudge for that (hopefully) well-meaning editor to develop that skill set a bit more. Benjiboi
    I've messaged an admin whose closing comments have been pretty constructive in the past to take a look when they have time, let's see what they have to say. Benjiboi 22:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
    Update, so I was mistaken and it looks like the closing editor is an admin and "Keep and no consensus are about the same and usually only affect the time when AfD#2 can be listed." So leaving well enough for now. Benjiboi 21:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Coordination with fruitcake article

    The fruitcake article says that fruitcake may mean nutty because of a few companies that add lots of nuts to fruitcake. However this article makes a jump from being nutty to fruitcake and doesn't know the origins, while the fruitcake article points out the possible origins. It needs to be fixed. Either it was or wasn't the origin. Personally, I think it you combine it, you get a pretty good reasoning.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

    Thank you, I checked the reference sited and it was a bit bogus (Urban dictionary with definitions voted for online by users). So both articles are reasonable to stay where they are; if you see something that might be an appropriate fix then please go for it. Benjiboi 20:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)