Talk:Fried dough

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PA DAMON INVENTED THE ELEPHANT EARS, IN THE 1940'S FROM LEFT OVER PASTREY DOUGH. ADRIAN COLLEGE KIDS CAME UP WITH THE NAME. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.232.219 (talk) 20:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Merge

I disagree with all or most of these proposed merges. Every form of fried dough food, including the blandly named fried dough, has its own cultural background and story. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:50, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I don't see what use a merged page would have to someone who looked up elephant ears or zeppole. Cmprince 21:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree with not merging, these are not all analogous foods. Additionally, I don't understand the foods which were chosen to be potentially merged, why Zeppole but not churro? - AKeen 21:04, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree and am removing the merge tag. Did the "tagger" comment on his/her reasoning anywhere? Rmhermen 21:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
In the end I removed the obviously different ones. I do support the merging of Frying saucer, Elephant ear, Beaver tail and fried dough. As far as I know this are all the same thing - the same dough made to about the same size and topped with generally the same toppings. How do you all feel about these (still) proposed mergers? Rmhermen 21:14, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Wow, you guys must love your fried snack foods. I'm not saying each variation needs to lose its identity -- sections make it possible -- but I don't understand the need to have 5 (6, 7, ...) pages all describing the exact same thing with different names. Should each of the 17 types of Eskimo snow have its own page? Why not churro? Maybe because it's at least slightly different? Ewlyahoocom 21:28, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ewlyahoocom, I think that the reduced list of merges makes sense, since they are all basically the same and have similar cultural relevance (namely, as carnival food). I don't agree with beignet, though since it is made differently and has its own history.
Regarding eskimo snow, the Inuit wikipedia very well might have 17 different entries, since its users expect variations. In the same respect, I think English users will expect seperate articles for beignets and elephant ears.
And yes, I do love my fried snack foods, and I'm not ashamed of it. Not wild about pork rinds, though. Cmprince 22:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I've read that the Eskimo-words-for-snow thing is mostly myth. Anyway, I agree with Cmprince. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Frank.Feather 03:03, 19 February 2006 (UTC)Do NOT merge. If you merge this, why not merge donuts? Cheers!

None of the suggested mergers should be merged. I would agree if there were multiple pages about one specific topic, but fried dough is such a generalized term and the information on this page is not correct. North America was not the first place where fried dough existed, it has been around a lot longer over in Asia and Europe, and there are specific histories to those types of fried dough, especially the suggested merger of beignets. I think when someone comes looking for elephant ears, they want to see a page about elephant ears, not a generalized page about fried dough that briefly mentions them. GirPanda 12:07, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Larovedefortvne 05:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC) I don't understand why there is the fried dough entry and then fried dough foods. The fried dough entry says that fried dough is prepared by frying dough, and then cites a slim few examples. The fried dough foods article is a much more extensive list of examples of food derived by frying dough. Why not merge these two articles into the general fried dough category, and each variation get its own page?

Because Fried dough is the proper name of a particular kind of food in the general category of "Fried dough foods". It has its own cultural identity that must remain seperate from all other kinds of friend dough foods. In fact, even the suggestion of combining one fried dough food with another robs it of the exalted status given to it by the culture which eats and loves it. I think you owe it an apology. Ewlyahoocom 10:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

derekpblank 01:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC) As a New Orleans native, I believe that beignets have their own cultural heritage that must be recongnize outside of their appearance or taste. Do not merge.

Do not merge--Brian1979 20:24, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

  • None of the proposed merges should be made. Beignets, zeppolis, etc are very different in history, region, and taste from your basic fried dough. Do not merge. --Sevenstorieshi 13:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing the mergefrom tag

It's been there since last September and I see no evidence of much support for the merge here.

I've now wordsmithed the opening paragraph to make it clear that "fried dough," by that name, is a specific name for a specific kind of food. It is prepared by taking a specific kind of dough and frying it in a specific kind of way, but many other foods are made by frying dough, and not all of them are "fried dough."

Not every muffin made in England is an "English muffin", not every venerable mixed drink is an "Old Fashioned", not every soda fountain drink made with milk in a shaker is a "milkshake".

As far as I know "fried dough," "frying saucers," "elephant ears," "beaver tails," etc. are, in fact all the same thing and are properly treated together.

It would, IMHO, be wrong to lump foods such as beignets, doughnuts, crullers with fried dough. They are made by frying dough, as are pancakes, fritters, etc. but they are not very similar. For example, I've never seen fried dough prepared with a filling inside.

I guess what I'm saying is, there is no more justification for merging beignet with fried dough than there is for merging fritter with funnel cake. Dpbsmith (talk) 12:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


  Also zeppole should not be put under the same name of fried dough. I agree with Pizza fritta being one of the names used for fried yeast dough, but for zeppole the dough is different.

[edit] Origin of "beaver tail" name

It's been claimed that Canadians call fried dough "beaver tails" because of the product of the BeaverTails company of Ottawa: [1] On the other hand, I've seen a website/book excerpt claiming that several competitors claim to have invented the name, and that it has precedent going back to the late 19th century (baked, not fried, though): [2]. My inclination is to cut the attribution out of this article entirely, and just include "beaver tails" as one of the possible names for fried dough. Anyone else have an opinion? FreplySpang 14:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

  • No, don't cut it out. I'm going to reword it to avoid claiming that the company originated the name. Add references to other explanations. If there are conflicting claims, the neutral thing to do is to present them all. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Thanks for taking on the reword. I wouldn't want the detailed discussion of "beaver tail" etymology to take over this article though - do you think it's worth making Beaver tail (pastry) an article of its own, instead of a redirect? FreplySpang 15:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
      • No, the article isn't particularly long, and since beaver tails, fried dough, and elephant ears are the same thing they should be discussed in the same article. Dpbsmith (talk) 18:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Okay. I like the way you've worded the concise, neutral overview of "beaver tails" in the current version of the article - I couldn't think of a way to do it without getting bogged down in the competition between different claimants, or the distinction between baked & fried beaver tails. FreplySpang 19:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
          • If you think it's taking up too much space in the opening section the details could be pushed down into its own section... or some of it tucked into a footnote... Dpbsmith (talk) 21:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elephant ears redirect?

Why does an entry for "elephant ears" take one directly to this (fried dough) page instead of to a disambiguation page? There is such a page, for the singular "elephant ear," and it seems silly that the plural wouldn't direct to a similar list. I was interested in the variety of caladium known as "elephant ear," and was quite surprised to find what we around here call "funnel cakes" instead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.36.173.170 (talk) 19:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Founder?

I'm moving this here

First founder of the dough mixed desert was Jared Cielinski.[citation needed]

because there's no reference, and because a Google search on "Jared Cielinsky" fried dough turns up nothing but this Wikipedia article and its mirrors. It should not be reinserted without a reference. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)