Talk:French legislative election, 2007

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[edit] gaps in the explanation of election rules

quite a few rules are missed out :you can find them in the french version.

Indeed I am curious if more can be explained regarding the election seeing as some parties with higher number of votes get less seats than those with less numbers of votes. --71.106.239.91 02:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the French election rules, but one party geting the majority of seats with cumulative less number of votes happens rather frequently in the US. See the article on gerrymandering. Jon 13:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 13

Did the french, I wonder, consider having a sixth republic instead of a 13th assembly becuase of the supperstition that the number 13 brings misfortune. Alec - U.K. 15:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Thanks a lot for this insightful analysis of French politics. Hektor 13:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UDF in the Right-wing Alliance?

Right now, the UDF is included in the right-wing "Presidential Majority" alliance in the chart. However, it isn't at all clear whether the UDF will remain a part of the alliance given that Bayrou and the UDF seriously challenged Sarkozy and the UMP in the presidential election. Moreover, Bayrou has suggested that he may endorse Royal and the Socialists in the second round. Would it then be appropriate to keep the UDF separate from both coalitions until it becomes clear which coalition (if any) they will be a part of? —Cuiviénen 18:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes, especially since Bayrou has since announced that he plans to form a new Democratic Party to contest the 2007 parliamentary election. ObeliskBJMtalk 20:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I think as it is now is fine (with the UDF "dissidents" as part of the Presidential majority"). Most of the UDF National Assembly members supported Sarkozy in the second round of the election (even though it was clear but unstated that Bayrou supported Royal). I assume those UDF members who do dnot join the Democratic Movement with Bayrou will either formally join the UMP or act as a junior member of a UMP government (assuming the "Presidential Majority" wins the election) --Amcalabrese 00:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I disagree that it was clear Bayrou ever supported Sego, in their online debate after the first round he clearly remained neutral while Sego tried to play up to him. He even made jokes at her expense. --David PJ Webster 12:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

As of the end of May, the pro-Sarkozy UDF has officially formed the "New Centre" party. Esquimo 12:39, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French parliamentary election, 2007

French parliamentary election, 2007 redirects here, but doesn't that title make more sense? English is not my fist language, but 'legislative elections' sounds rather odd to me. It's not laws that are elected, but (potential) parliament members. Who will next participate in making laws, but it's not the laws themselves that are elected, as the present title suggests. DirkvdM 18:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

"Élections législatives" is the normal term in French. "Parliamentary election" would also be a problem, since only the lower house is elected in this election and the French Parliament consists in two houses... David.Monniaux 00:21, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry, English makes a lousy fist language anyway.

[edit] Polls

Any polls yet? I saw in the IHT (I think) that the first polls showed a big lead for the "Presidential Majority" (UMP, pro-Sarkozy side of UDF, MPF etc) but I have not seen actual numbers.

Amcalabrese 17:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article title

Unlike the presidential election, there are several legislative elections (with different candidates, in each constituency). In that case, the word "election" should be in the plural. [1] Korg (talk) 17:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

That's simply not how it's done on en.wiki, though. We use the singular for all elections, EXCEPT if there really are absolutely distinct ones (different local and regional elections on the same day). This election is a SINGLE election to a SINGLE parliament, and as such it's "French legislative election". Please also discuss such large-scale changes beforehand. —Nightstallion (?) 19:18, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Please note that I've discussed this two days before making the changes. I've also made sure that these changes would be right. You're stating that for such elections, the singular is always used, but it doesn't appear to be the case; for example, what about Category:United States House of Representatives elections? In the news, the terms in the plural are the most used: [2] / [3] - [4] / [5] (2007); [6] / [7] (archives). The French National Assembly uses the plural, too. [8]
The use of the term in the singular isn't appropriate—there are as many elections as deputies. Korg (talk) 00:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
That's a special case; all other elections in riding-based system, for instance Canada, the United Kingdom, many African nations, New Zealand, Australia, ... use "election", not "elections". —Nightstallion (?) 15:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Are you speaking of the use inside or outside Wikipedia (by the media, the authorities)? Korg (talk) 23:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree with Nightstallion and I've nothing to add to his comments: I want only to make everyone think about the fact that there is a national campaign (and that the alliances for the second round and not only are chosen in Paris). More... I think that the title of this article must be coherent to the titles of all the other articles on elections in countries adopting first-past-the-post voting systems. --Checco 16:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Not to get in the middle of this, but in the US, Election Day is not just for the House of Representatives, but 1/3 of the Senate, and usually state and local offices too. I admit though I could see it both ways.Amcalabrese 19:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Nightstallion. Electionworld Talk? 19:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
It's a bit awkward for me, because I usually share Nightstallion's opinion. But, here in France, we always use this term on the plural form, except when there is a bye-election ("une élection partielle", or just "une partielle"). A "legislative election" sounds really odd for my ears. But on the other hand I clearly agree that all the titles of the election articles must be standardized by a sole naming convention. So if we write German federal election, 2005 and Slovenian parliamentary election, 2004, there is no reason to put it on the plural form for France, even if in German it's the singular form and in Slovenian the plural form. It can't depend of the usage in the country itself. So although I'm rather neuter on this issue, I strongly support to keep a unity in all those articles' titles. Švitrigaila 20:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Another vote of support for the singular here. Practice across the wiki has been to plural election if and only if multiple institutions are being filled (ie, a president AND a parliament). The Tom 20:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Also support use of the singular. "Parliamentary elections, 2007" could suggest there were two seperate elections as in 1946. Number 57 08:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Also agree with the singular - we need to reinforce the wiki standards.Europarliament 17:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. Apart from the title, is it appropriate to put the words "election" in the plural (as in the articles German federal election, 2005 or Slovenian parliamentary election, 2004)? Korg (talk) 23:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I see absolutely no problems with that, as it simply sounds more natural in English. —Nightstallion (?) 08:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't know which one of you two guys is right, but a) the one who did the change did not do the cleanup in the other articles so know we have redirects b) the titles of the 2002 and 2007 elections are now incoherent. Thanks. Hektor 09:30, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

What is the source of the aggregate party voting figures given in this article? Intelligent Mr Toad 08:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Results Discrepancies

Some of the first round/total results don't add up. The best example of this is the UMP winning two seats in the first round but apparently only having one seat in total; also, in one place, the MoDem is said to have won 4 seats, but in the tally it only has 3. (unnown anon editor)

I noticed that as well. In addition the article summary and also the paragraph where MoDem is said to have won 4 seats says the ruling party lost seats (amount not given in either place) but the chart below says they gained 50. Something is not adding up. Jon 13:04, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
The catch-call categories in the official results ("Miscellaneous right-wing", etc.) seem to include candidates who ran as independents with the intention of affiliating with established parties in the assembly (like Joe Lieberman in the U.S.), as well as candidates of regional parties that are loosely affiliated with national parties. Some of the French media (e.g. Le Monde) are sorting these people into the parties with which they are expected to affiliate. I think that is the source of the discrepancies. Oh, and the "Changes Since 2002" chart still seems to be based on the results of the first round.
They gained in the first round but lost in the second round. This is indeed quite unclear. One way to make sense of it is to compare with French legislative election, 2002. Haukur 13:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Verified via check that the bottom summary chart in French legislative election, 2002 just lists the total seats each party won and not a detail of which round they won it in. Accordingly, if the summary chart on this page is only comparing against first round in each, it needs replaced with a total net change. Jon 15:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
The table includes the figures from the source mentioned. As long as we don't have another source, this is what we have. Electionworld Talk? 13:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC). The number of seats is confirmed by the Ministry of the Interior. I don't understand the 2 seats of MPF in the first round, where the total number is 1. Electionworld Talk? 13:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC) BTW TF1 has different results. BTW2: The second MPF seat might be included in UPM, since one of its candidates was sponsored by UPM. Electionworld Talk? 13:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Remember, not all the seats were in contention in the second round. About 110 were won in the first round, so not as many people were voting in the second round. --Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 14:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Polls 2

I think the whole coverage of these elections have been contradictory, rather than just this article. And the reason lies with the kind of results that were being flashed by various pre-election polls. None of them have seemed to get it right. .bandishhh 11:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MPF

The MPF won two seats (Vendee 4 and 5). The table needs to be adjusted. Intelligent Mr Toad 07:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

No, since one of them was elected on the UMP ticket. Electionworld Talk? 08:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Le Monde calls both candidates MPF. Figaro calls one of them MPF and the other Divers Droite. Also Le Monde credits the MoDem with four seats - Pyrenees-Atlantiques 2 and 4, Seine-St-Denis 5 and Ille-et-Vilaine 6. Intelligent Mr Toad 10:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The candidate in Seine-St-Denis 5 (Jean-Christophe Lagarde) was elected as a "divers droite" and joined Nouveau Centre on June 19 according to French Wikipedia.
It is a pity that the sources differ. For the seats the site of the Ministry of the interior was used. www.élection-politique.com gives the same result. Electionworld Talk? 11:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

More info. The second MPF was not elected on the UMP ticket (my mistake), but with support of the UMP on the Divers Droite ticket. Differences from the ministry with Le Monde:

  • Vendee 5, M. Joël SARLOT (ELU) Divers droite 25 822 52,12 (not MPF, was in 2002 Démocratie Libérale, text in French Wikipedia: Il a été membre de Démocratie Libérale, puis du Mouvement pour la France avant d'en démissionner en 2006.)
  • Seine-Saint Denis, M. Jean-Christophe LAGARDE (ELU) Divers droite 15 795 59,87 (not MODEM, Lagarde was in 2002 UDF, joined NC 19 june 2007[9], Pour les législatives, il s'était présenté sous l'étiquette "Bobigny-Drancy" et avait fait campagne de façon indépendante.)

So the ministry seems to be correct. BTW, M. Abdoulatifou ALY (ELU) Divers from Mayotte joined MODEM, but was not elected as a MODEM candidate.Electionworld Talk? 11:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

OK Electionworld, vous avez raison as usual. Merci. Is the Communist from Reunion included with the PCF or does she sit as Diverse Gauche? Intelligent Mr Toad 01:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Huguette Bello appears to be a member of the Communist Party of Réunion (PCR) ([10]). From 1997 to 2002 she sieged in the Radical-citoyen-vert parliamentary group (which included the PCR, the Greens, Radical-Socialists, etc., but not the French Communist Party). Today she sieges with the Gauche démocrate et républicaine parliamentary group, which includes the Greens, the French Communist Party and others left-wing deputies). Tazmaniacs 15:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cardiologist

Just a detail. If Dr. Salem Kacet operated on Gérard Vignoble, then the former must be a cardiac surgeon, rather than a cardiologist.

190.161.184.28 22:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Why are surnames beginning with "Le" so common in Brittany? Intelligent Mr Toad 12:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ballot papers

Two questions:

  • In French legislative elections, do the candidates appear on the ballot paper in alphabetical order, or in random order, or in some other order? I ask because at the Interior Ministry website giving the results for each district, the candidates appear in an order which is neither alphabetical nor random, nor in order of number of votes. The major party candidates are usually grouped at the top, but the MoDem candidate is frequently listed last.
  • When listing French surnames in alphabetical order, are the elements "de" "de la" and "du" taken into account? Thus (to take an example), which is the correct alphabetical order here?
    • Yves Contassot
    • Françoise de Panafieu
    • Marianne Druon

or

    • Yves Contassot
    • Marianne Druon
    • Françoise de Panafieu

Intelligent Mr Toad 07:03, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Next question:

In Moselle 6, why were two rounds of voting held when Pierre Lang polled a majority in the first round? Intelligent Mr Toad 08:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Because the candidate needs an absolute majority among those who voted at the first turn AND at least 25% of the votes among all those who have an electoral card. Lang had an absolute majority, but failed to have 25% of the votes (he needed more than 18,000 votes and had only about 17,000 [11]). Tazmaniacs 15:47, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou. Another question: why did Alain Juppe have to resign as a minister after failing to be re-elected to the National Assembly, while Bernard Kouchner can be a minister without ever having been elected to the Assembly? Intelligent Mr Toad 16:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Juppé was in no obligation to resign, it was just because Fillon said that any minister running for a seat in the Assembly and loses needs to resign. Also, no law states that a minister needs to be a MP or Senator. You could me a minister, like a Senator could be one. --Petrovic-Njegos 17:01, 11 August 2007 (UTC)