Talk:Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)
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[edit] Disputed Statistics 1
"The Free Church of Scotland endured a major division in 1900 and and a minor division in 2000."
In fact, the proportion of ministers adhering to the minority was much GREATER in 2000 than in 1900.
Fair point
[edit] Editorial Bias 1
"Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) represents a body which was involved on the minority side in this second schism. "
The term "schism" is, when used in an ecclesiastical sense, emotive, as "schism" is deemed a sin while "division" is neutral.
Reference to dicitonary.com makes no reference to sin being a part of a schism. Schism is a descriptive word. It is defined as follows:
1. division or disunion, esp. into mutually opposed parties. 2. the parties so formed. 3. Ecclesiastical. a. a formal division within, or separation from, a church or religious body over some doctrinal difference. b. the state of a sect or body formed by such division. c. the offense of causing or seeking to cause such a division.
The point is that schism in an ecclesiastical sense is a sin. Division is not necessarily. So the use of the term "schism" displays a lack of objectivity when used in relation to matters ecclesiastical.
"Over a period from the late 1980s to 2000 there was a small number " The number was considerable
The ultimate percentage who left the Free Church of Scotland was 8%. 8% is bigger than 7%, but notwithstanding 92% remained loyal to the Free Church cause. In this context 8% is a small number.
The source of the statistics is not quoted and its impartiality is suspect.
"both within and outwith the Free Church of Scotland had regard to gossip"
"gossip" is emotive. The term "reports" would be neutral
Again dictionary.com provides a number of definitions of Gossip, which includes the verb - to talk idly, esp. about the affairs of others; go about tattling. This acturately summarises the position.
Sadly, there were solid allegations with documentary evidence.
"to the manner in which allegations, both moral and spiritual, against a Minister of the Gospel."
Misleading -- the principal function of the individual concerned was a theological professor in the Free Church College.
No explanation is given of why this statement is misleading. Professors of the Free Church college are ordained ministers of Free Church of Scotland. They present what they understand to be the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The explanation is that the spiritual character of a minister is required in order to be a professor in the Free Church College. It is not MERELY an academic post, but a spiritual one.
"In January 2000 more than twenty ministers(many of whom were retired)"
It is true that many of the ministers were retired, but here it is not germane to the issue. There is no indication that the retired men made up a greater proportion of those in the minority than those among the majority. It appears to be used here to denigrate the minority.
The statement is accurate, as confirmed by the objector. "who had expressed disquiet, refused to adhere to their ordination vows to accept a decision of the General Assembly"
Biased point of view -- their ordination vows bound them only to accept decisions of General Assembly made in accordance with the constitution of the Church which the decisions in question were not.
Ordination vows are taken by all office bearers in the Free Church of Scotland to adhere to the decisions of the Church courts, though through conscience they may dissent. Reference: Free Church Practice aka The blue book
The vows extend only to requirements which are themselves constitutional. One minister was suspended for being contumacious on the ground that he had refused to withdraw comments he had not actually made and could prove he had not made, but by trying him for contumacy he was deprived of the right to defend himself. The use of contumacy rather than a substantive charge is not constitutional
"Disregarding Scriptural principles, they sought to sue brothers in Christ in the Scottish Courts."
The majority had first taken action against one of the minority ministers in Inverness Sheriff Court. The majority have since taken action against Free Church Continuing office-bearers in the Court of Session (8th March 2007).
The objector accepts that the statement is correct, and offers no criticism of the accuracy. If it was Scriptural for the Free Church minority in 1900 to use the courts of the land, it must be deemed in accordance with Scriptural principle. It displays a lack of impartiality to describe the actions of the minority in 2000 as "disregarding Scriptural principles" when the Free Church followed the same line in 1900 and the present majority have twice taken the same action against the minority since 2000/
[edit] Disputed Statistics 2
"They are less than 20% of the ministerial strength of the pre-2000 Free Church of Scotland "
This is out of accordance with the figures in the Yearbook of the Free Church of Scotland and the Yearbook of the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing), both of which list the ministers of each denomination for independent verification. They show the minority to be OVER 20% of the pre-2000 Free Church of Scotland.
The objection is meaningless, and fails to compare like with like. The objection does compare like with like. The books may be directly compared.
And here is an example of what I talk about below please sign-in and sign your contribs with four "~" signs. I had to read the above several times to work itg out. Wilmot1
[edit] Missing Information
"The denomination has been refused full membership of the International Conference of Reformed Churches due to their court action."
This is correct. But the ICRC have still to consider their response to legal action by the larger body against the smaller. Appin 20:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The objector accepts that the statement is correct.
The statement is correct but not impartial. The representatives of the Free Church of Scotland (Residual) gave an undertaking to the ICRC that if the FCC Court case were dropped there would be no legal action taken against the FCC either nationally or locally. See http://www.icrconline.com/minutes.html That undertaking has been broken by the Broadford action and the ICRC have still to pronounce on that matter. To include the reference to the ICRC finding of October 2005 with no detailed reference to the basis on which they reached it and without reference to the subsequent action by the FCS (R) is at best misleading and displays a lack of impartiality.
How can a statement be correct in fact but not impartial? It may be correct but incomplete but facts don't carry partiality. Wilmot1 11:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh and can everyone please login and sign their contributions to this page with four "~", it puts in the username and (more usefully) a date/time stamp. Wilmot1 11:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
