Talk:Frederik, Crown Prince of Denmark

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Looks like we've had a bit of a collision... sorry. I just converted and uploaded Fredrik.jpg Motor 20:27, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Tip: The heir to the Danish throne has been born

I don't think that the Crown Prince is preceded by anybody in the Line of Succession to the Danish Crown.

[edit] Naming controversy

According to Charles, Frederik will become King Frederick (when his mother dies). Does anyone know a source that confirms a name change associated with a Danish crown prince's accession to the throne? Sakkura 11:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It is not a change of name. Danish kings have alternated between Frederick and Christian for a number of centuries. Charles 11:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Frederik and Christian in Danish; since he is apparently known in the English-speaking countries as Frederik, I don't understand why they would all of a sudden start calling him King Frederick. Also, Frederik is actually a deviation from the traditional Frederik-Christian alternation of the Oldenburg/Glücksburg kings. Sakkura 11:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
All Kings Frederick of Denmark so far have been "Frederick" in English... That is what is known. Also, Frederick is not a deviation... Every second sovereign is a Frederick. Margrethe is the deviation. And Frederick isn't an Oldenburg as it is... Charles 12:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Well I don't see why people would all of a sudden go from using the Danish spelling (Crown Prince Frederik) to the traditional English spelling (King Frederick). It makes no sense. I suppose you could say Margrethe II is the deviation rather than her son. The alternation has been in use in the line of both Oldenburg and Glücksburg kings which is why I used both of those names. Sakkura 12:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It is mentioned that "all king F... have been Frederick". What is that based on? The article names on Wikipedia? For those could definitely be wrong. In fact, I would contend that a person christened Frederik in Denmark will be Frederik (not Frederick) in ALL countries of the world, though media etc. in those countries might spell it differently - though it would be a misspelling. Indeed, the royal house's official website itself states that Margrethe was born to King Frederik, without the C in the name: [1] - I would recommend using Frederik in this article, and probably renaming all King Frederick articles to King Frederik. It's certainly more correct. Lilac Soul (talk • contribs • count) 14:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not more correct, it's just your preference. Of course a Danish website will use the Danish spelling which is similar to the English. Charles 15:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Lilac Soul has literally spammed the talk pages of every single Frederick of Denmark with links here to change the name. Charles 15:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Note to anyone following Lilac Soul's links to here. This discussion is not about changing the names of all of the Kings Frederick of Denmark to "Frederick" on Wikipedia. This is an English language encyclopedia and the English form of the names of these kings are used. Charles 15:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
No, the form generally recognized by English speakers is the one that should be used. As far as I can tell, Crown Prince Frederik is referred to by his native name quite commonly in the English-speaking nations, so this form should be used. They will likely still refer to him by his native name after he becomes King, so I intend to change "King Frederick X" to the native spelling unless anyone objects. Sakkura 16:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
The Crown Prince's native name is "Frederik" and the names of his successors are / were spelled the same way. During the 18th century, a few monarchs preferred to refer to themselves as Friedrich (German spelling) but this practice was due to the massive German influence on the administration of the old union and irrelevant for the current topic. Provided that his mother lives on for another 20 years (very likely) who knows how English will spell his name as a monarch at that juncture? We don't normally translate the names of people that are not reigning monarchs, so neither should we in this case. The official websites of the monarchy [2] [3] and the Danish Foreign Ministry [4] both use the native spelling of his name and I haven't seen any proof that English media predominantly spells his name any differently. Oppose move. Should English media prefer a non-Danish spelling at the time when he actually takes over the shop, then let's deal with that situation at such a time. I did a google search for "Danish crown prince" and took a peek at some of the royalty-related forums that popped up there. They seem to use the "Frederik" spelling as well. Valentinian T / C 15:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Let's stay with Frederik untill they move Juan Carlos I to John Charles I.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 15:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For those following Lilac Soul's links in other articles here

I did not intend to spam other talk pages, as I am apparently being accused of by Charles. I just see very little reason why naming conventions should differ between articles, and if this article is Frederik, Crown Prince... I see no logical reason why the other articles should be Frederick, King of... I did not mean to promote my own viewpoint (that Frederik should be used), but simply to search a consensus one way or the other. If the consensus is Frederick, fine. If the consensus is Frederick for kings, Frederik for princes, then that is fine as well. Since the Danish royal house, on their official English website, refers to even the kings as Frederik, then that is what I'd consider correct. But I do recognize that WP:NCNT states that we should use the most common form of the name used in English. This may well be Frederick for the kings, and Frederik for the crown prince. ...So please note that I started those talkpage links here in absolutely good faith, in an attempt to improve the accuracy and consistency of Wikipedia. Is Frederick really the most common way to spell these kings' names in English? And do people really believe that there should be a difference between the articles on the kings and on the prince? Lilac Soul (talk • contribs • count) 16:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Each article should be treated separately. It looks like the English media have started to prefer native names in the course of the last several decades, which would explain why people in the English-speaking nations speak of King Frederick IX but Crown Prince Frederik. I highly doubt the English-language media or people would suddenly change the spelling when a crown prince became king. Sakkura 16:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with that completely. After all the name of the current queen is usually spelled Margrethe II even though the queen of Denmark from 1375 to 1412 is called Margaret I in English. And while I suppose it is possible that the English-language media and people may change their preferred spelling after Frederik's coronation, whether they will actually do so is surely speculation. Hemmingsen 19:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Denmark hasn't used coronations since 1848 ;) Leaving that aside, I agree. Valentinian T / C 23:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
You got me there. 2 bonus points ;) Hemmingsen 05:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The naming conventions are for the title of the article. As Frederi(c)k isn't king yet, the point is irrelevant. Charles 23:54, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
But why should the spelling of his name as used that one place in the article be different from the spelling used in the title? I don't see how the common English names of the previous King Frederi(c)ks relate to this case. Hemmingsen 05:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia's policies aren't law which is fortunate as several of them conflict with one another. AFAIK, English media predominantly spell his name the Danish way, so that must also apply here. I don't see a reason for using a different spelling than the one used by both the official websites and the local tabloids. The Queen is normally referred to as Margrethe rather than Margaret, and I would be much surprised if Princess Elisabet of Rosenborg was better known somewhere as Princess Elizabeth. The similar Swedish material uses titles like Carl XVI Gustav of Sweden, and Prince Carl Philip, Duke of Värmland. I don't feel any urge to rename them to "Charles XVI Gustavus" or "Charles Philip" either. I don't see such a convention used on the Dutch material either (cf. e.g. Prince Maurits of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven and Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands) Valentinian T / C 06:29, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Firstly, as I see it, this page is correct in spelling it Fredrik. The name should only be changed when he ascends to the crown. Valentinian, do you know of someone on the Danish Wikipedia who could explain it best? Laleena 12:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The Danish wikipedia can't really be used other than to confirm what the native name is - namely Frederik (see da:Kronprins Frederik). This article should use whatever form is most recognized among people whose native language is English. Sakkura 16:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)