Talk:Fraser Valley
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[edit] Whatcom County
I've heard some sources say the Fraser Valley extends as far south as Bellingham, in nearby Whatcom County. In fact, most populated areas of Whatcom County are geographically part of the Fraser Valley, as is the Lower Nooksack River Basin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.57.220.248 (talk) 20:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
- Technically the Fraser drainage doesn't extend farther south than slightly into the US on Sumas Prairie; but the Fraser Lowland, that's a different matter and I suppose needs an article; "Fraser Valley" is a bit of a culture-area, too, like the San Fernando Valley; another similar usage is Columbia Valley meaning only the very uppermost part of the Columbia basin, near the Rockies.Skookum1 (talk) 07:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Merge discussion
I'll start the merge here, although I'm not sure which one should be the main title; I guess the other one because of Upper Fraser Valley, Central Fraser Valley etc, unless there's even a case for them as separate articles; certainly as deinitions/subsections. Seems to be more meat on the other page; the Lower Fraser Valley is on the other hand a very different place form the Upper Fraser Valley; it might be useful to cover them separately article-wise, I'm not sure now. Thoughts, BC wikipedians?Skookum1 08:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
- Merge into Fraser Valley. I agree with Skookum1 and would add that this article is unclear. It talks about the "Lower Fraser Valley" as being in the same location as the GVRD (which I believe is approximately true), then shows maps of the entire Fraser Valley under the heading "Lower Fraser Valley." The article is also unclear as to the dimensions of the "Central Fraser Valley," stating that some people say it is the area that includes Abbotsford and Mission and then stating that this is incorrect. Which then leaves the question: "Where is the Central Fraser Valley?" I have a phone book entitled: "Central Fraser Valley" that includes Abbotsford and Mission — which brings to mind the need for sources. I think that "Lower Fraser Valley, Central Fraser Valley and Upper Fraser Valley could be sections of the Fraser Valley article with redirects from those three topics to the main article. Sunray 15:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
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- that whole paragraph was my addition last night, and any contradictions may be "syntactical mirages"; the CFV is Abbotsford and Mission (or as we used to think of it Mission-MSA or MSA-Mission) and it's alsopart of the Lower Fraser Valley; why this is I don't know but it's always been the way it is; never really thought about whether Deroche is Lower and Chehalis Upper, but it's mostly a southside distinction anyway; in the days when Abbotsford was Matsqui, Sumas and Abbotsford, the eastern part of Sumas, overtowards Yarrow and Greenville, might easily be considered Upper Fraser Valley. Again, the CFV is part of the LFV.Skookum1 17:37, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
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- Ah, but I think you will be quick to see the illogic of that in an encyclopedia. If one has a "Central" region, it is logically between at least two other regions. We in the Upper Fraser Valley are very clear on our boundaries and west of Chilliwack and Chehalis is all "lower" to us. All the more reason to merge articles, IMO. If we are going to refer to the Central Fraser Valley at all (and I would suggest we do not), we will need a source or two (as we will for the boundaries of the "Upper" and "Lower" Fraser Valley. Sunray 17:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
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- CFV is easily citable because of various organizational/government names associated with it over the years, and also in newspaper usages in the Abby and Mission papers. Logic in region names doesn't readily apply anywhere in the world - elsewhere I'm in a discussion about the distinction between Central Interior and Northern Interior of BC, for instance. All I know, being from Mission (Ruskin) is that Mission and Abby are considered Central Fraser Valley - come to think of it that was the name on our phonebook for years upon years - but we also considered ourselves to be Lower Fraser Valley; Chilliwack and on up was Upper; didn't know that about Chehalis...but right across the river is the western end of Kent, which is at least municipally-org wise Upper Fraser Valley; Lake Errock-Deroche I'd always considered "Mission" by default because they were within the school district, and are "outlying neighbourhoods" of "Greater Mission".Skookum1 18:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
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I think it is about time to take some action on this. I've supported to merge this into Fraser Valley. "Lower Fraser Valley" would then redirect to the former. Any concerns about this? I think we should decide this by February 15. If there is no consensus, we should just remove the merge tags. Sunray (talk) 19:37, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'll try and remember to get back here by the 15th after considering it, or reconsidering it, given I proposed the merge in the first place so long ago. I'd say they're redundant and the Lower/Central/Upper thing can be explained in the article's lead, as well as the subtle distinctions between Fraser Valley, Lower Mainland, GVRD/Greater Vancouver (e.g. how PoCo is a "Fraser Valley town" but nobody there would consider it life "in the Fraser Valley", which lies further East, or why Richmond and Delta are "valley towns" when Burnaby and Vancouver, which also flank on the river, are not...; or the Chilliwack/Chehalis Upper vs Central/Lower; all can be in one article. citability, hmmm, but definitely part of normative BC usage even if illogical (i.e.g the Central/Lower conundrum, but it's like the "is Manitoba part of Western Canada or is it Central Canada?" thingamawhatzit). I'm sorta back but running on limited time; this one interests me and I may try and help with improving the page if I can (without access to my books for anyhthing needing citation; I'm in Nova Scotia....). No promises; but unless I can't come up with an objection to my own proposal, I say Support.Skookum1 (talk) 05:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
And re the Prince George thing, that's the Central Interior, although I tend to think of it as the Northern Interior (PGers consider it Central; to me that's Williams Lake-Kamloops); calling anything above Hope as being in the Fraser Valley is a gaffe admittedly propagated by the national media and, as I've seen, in translated articles in other languages, but as a region name it's incorrect. Williams Lake is not in the Fraser Valley in the sense that phrase carries in BC, even though it's in the valley of the Fraser River. Just not in the area known as the Fraser Valley. It's why the term Robson Valley exists, to deal with the upper valley (where the mysteriously named and rugged-though-teensy Grand Canyon of the Fraser is, and which is nowhere near the Fraser Canyon. Yeah, so you just moved here from Alberta....might as well learn the language as she is spoke, OK?Skookum1 (talk) 05:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, agreed. I've listed this at Wikipedia:Requested moves since we have to blend the edit histories of the two pages. Sunray (talk) 16:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
- NO. History-merging (= histmerge) would make a mess by mixing in one list the edit histories of two pages which were edited in parallel. Histmerge is for when a page was cut-and-paste moved to a new name, not for merging. Histmerge requests should be listed in Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:30, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Map
Needs to show what we mean by "Fraser Valley"; basin-wide's OK if the Lower Fraser is suitably highlighted, though.Skookum1 (talk) 07:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
