Talk:Frank Sinatra

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Frank Sinatra is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
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[edit] Senate Hearings Anyone???

I heard Frank Sinatra testified before Senate (Congress?) that rock and blues music are "lewd" and "immoral". Can anyone confirm or refute this? I don't know if this has anything to do with PMRC tho'. - Joe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.51.22.212 (talk) 15:59, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The article isn't too long

It has alot of information, but thats just fine. It's a real feature article, and almost everybody will find what interests them here. Infact, it should be expanded. Somebody asked here about his vocal range, someone else might be interested in his political views. Anyway, the article isn't to long, it's an example for a normal-sized article for its theme. M.V.E.i. 21:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

It's quite long compared to say McCartney, Beethoven or Elvis...Could we move the bio to Life of Frank Sinatra, leaving a shortened versh? I've already created Frank Sinatra Filmography, List of Frank Sinatra's awards and accolades and Frank Sinatra's recorded legacy for similar reasons. Gareth E Kegg 18:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Although I think it's admirable how much content is in this article, I really think it is too long. It's exhausting just going through the Table of Contents. The length is really what's holding this article back from being Featured. Williamnilly (talk) 18:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Shall we delete Life of Frank Sinatra or add to it and condense the bio on the main page? We do need to strip out a lot...should a new article be created detailing Mob allegations? Or is this further evidence of my descent into Sinatramania? Gareth E Kegg (talk) 18:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Sintra lived a lot longer than Elvis did, and rather longer than Paul has so far, and there is a lot more info available from living sources about Frank than there is about Beethoven, I daresay. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeh, but what do other think of my proposal? Gareth E Kegg 12:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Your proposal is a pain in the ass! Stop comparing Frank to McCartney or such jerkheads! --Shifty86 11:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Relax please. I was comparing the artists in terms of article length. The page has been cut by a third already. Gareth E Kegg 13:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, my girlfriend and I split today and it's oh so maddening. Please keep doing your good work - will you forgive me? --Shifty86 15:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I shall. There's no one better for break up songs than Frank. Try In the Wee Small Hours, Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely, Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim or She Shot Me Down. Gareth E Kegg 15:13, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


Why no mention of his painting and artwork? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.132.98 (talk) 17:05, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

another thing, i put in the article that he is a member of Alpha Phi Delta fraternity which he is a part of because I am in that same fraternity so I added it in because it's another piece of information about him.

If this is the case, we need a citation to support it. I've requested one with a {{fact}} template. Feel free to add a reference if you have one. Thanks TheRetroGuy (talk) 21:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bing not Bob

I couldnt figure out how to do an edit, but the piece states that Frank was less popular as a singer than Bob Crosby. I think the writer meant Bing Crosby. Can someone with edit privileges please oblige. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.83.146.244 (talk) 03:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can't believe this article has no image of Frank Sinatra!

There should be at least a request for an image. 194.79.44.109 10:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

There was one, and the deletionists killed it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 11:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Summer Wind his favorite?

I thought I read somewhere that Frank's favorite song to sing was "Summer Wind." Does anyone know a reference for that? --cda 02:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philly's Frank Palumbo and mob allegations

I have just added a note to the Palumbos article and one the newer article on Frank Palumbo looking for some sources. Palumbo, a local celebrity in Philly, was a prominent club owner and very popular with a number of groups for his various philanthropic efforts. He also had powerful friends in local politics and entertainment, including controversial mayor Frank Rizzo and Sinatra. Mob tie allegations and an apparently fixed fight (Jake LaMotta-Billy Fox) haunted his life and tied prominantly to Sinatra (the two were close and were reps for Lamotte and Fox).

However, I'm having trouble finding reliable sources for anything including the words "Palumbo" and "mob", "Mafia", "mothers and fathers in association", etc. Since I'm sure allegations re Sinatra have been through the ringer here, does anyone have anything that might be of use in the Palumbo dyad? Mdbrownmsw 12:56, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds intresting. Have you tried Kitty Kelly's Sinatra bio His Way? That is the most detailed in reference to Mob allegations, though I admit I haven't heard of Palumbo before. Gareth E Kegg 14:09, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Amazon's Search Inside finds no instances of "Palumbo", "Palumbo's", "Click Club" or "Nostalgias". Thanks, but nothing there.
Mdbrownmsw 18:41, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death date

May 14, 1998, was a Thursday. The obits say he died Thursday. The article says it occurred at 10:50 pm, which means Thursday, not past midnight into Friday. It's hard telling where the May 15 stuff is coming from, but it appears to be incorrect. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Rivalry with Brando

I updated the page to illustrate that sintra not only lost the role of Sky Masterson to Brando, but also that of Terry Malloy. The IMDb entry for On the Waterfront staes in the trivia section that Sinatra was offered the part after Brando turned it down, yet Sam Spiegal was hell bent on getting Brando. After losing the 2nd part to Brando it did in fact cause a rivalry between the two that only increased as they advanced in years. Sinatra even used to call Brando 'Mumbles'. I feel that this is a significant development in SInatra's career to warrant inclusion. Please reconsider. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.47.222 (talk) 20:36, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

There are a couple issues with the inclusion. The most significant issue is that IMDB isn't considered a reliable source because it depends on user submissions for trivia and is not fact checked by an objective 3rd party nor is a source required for the inclusion of trivia. Another issue is that a source must be provided for material, which was not offered in the material entered. If you can provide citations for this, then by all means, it can be included. What you added left the paragraph reading:

In 1954 Sinatra was offered the part of Terry Malloy in On The Waterfront after Marlon Brando had turned it down. Brando later U-turned on his decision leaving Sinatra out of the frame. The following year Sinatra missed out on the role of Sky Masterson, in the hugely popular and successful Guys and Dolls. Losing the part was not made any easier with the fact that Brando had again 'stole his thunder'. Sinatra played the second male lead Nathan Detroit. It was the beginning of a lifelong feud between the two stars which also made for a tense shoot. Despite the rivalry the movie became the highest grossing film of 1955. Also in 1955, Sinatra's first 12" LP In the Wee Small Hours, his second collaboration with Nelson Riddle, was released.

Some of the wording is a little tenuous, such as the "U-turned on his decision leaving Sinatra out of the frame" and should read more to the effect of "changed his mind." It sounds a little biased as it was and needs to be more neutral. A similar problem lies with the "stole his thunder." I have no doubt a rivalry existed, but it needs to be professional sounding and requires sources, which is why I removed it. Please feel free to include this, worded neutrally and with sources. Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Issues

I appreciate the amount of work that went into this article and the accompanying biography expansion. It was a lot of work. However, I do have some concerns regarding how much this article and the "Life of" article are duplications of one another. I don't have a strong opinion on which article needs the greater work, but one or the other needs to be condensed and rewritten with an eye toward making the material more unique. Since this is about Sinatra in general, I would suggest that the personal life material be pared and the career material remain here. The article is also in need of improved referencing. There are a lot of facts, figures and quotes included with no reference whatsoever, although it's obvious that material for referencing is available given the bibliography and further reading sections. Another issue concerns the puffery and use of weasel word descriptions and peacockery. Use of language such as "gave an acclaimed performance," etc. aren't encyclopedic and violate WP:NPOV, WP:Peacock and WP:Weasel. I started working on some of this, but frankly, it's overwhelming. Hopefully, contributors will jump in and work on this. On the plus side, it's a lot cleaner than the Life of Frank Sinatra page. Wildhartlivie (talk) 00:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

How can you put an article up for GA when it has "This article needs additional citations for verification" at the top? Sorry, but's a waste of time.--andreasegde (talk) 16:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It's getting there, but it's too soon. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 17:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quick-failed GA nomination

Per the above and the quick-fail criteria, I am quick-failing this article's GA nomination. When the issue is fixed, please nominate the article again. Thanks, Kakofonous (talk) 20:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Connections to mafia?

There are rumors concerning Frank Sinatra having connections to the mafia (see e.g. the german version of this article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra#Verbindung_zum_organisierten_Verbrechen). Even if they are not true they should at least be mentioned. 81.173.143.169 (talk) 14:18, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I for one came here looking for info about Sinatra and the mob and was pretty surprised to find nothing. Whether accurate or not, I think it's a connection that exists in many or most people's minds. There should be information here discussing this, even if it's just proof that it's untrue.71.115.8.97 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:36, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, at least a reference in the main article would be appropriate, I was also surprised to find nothing. Made me suspect his PR people had edited this page. 71.232.98.240 (talk) 14:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 'ol two eyes

Under Frank's photograph I think "'ol two eyes" should be "'ol blue eyes."

72.24.28.73 (talk) 22:27, 3 March 2008 (UTC) 03/03/08

Yes, I think you are correct. But it should be " ol' blue eyes," with the apostrophe in the place of the "d." There is no letter replaced befor the "o." DJMsings (talk) 17:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Frank Sinatra Has a Cold

Is it possible not to mention the famous portrait by Gay Talese ? It surely is a fine piece of journalism, and a big document on Sinatra. Isn't it ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.247.115.24 (talk) 15:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This article needs a discography

This article needs a discography. There are so many "compilations," "collections," and "best-ofs," that it is hard to know what was originally released by the artist and what wasn't. This is of particular import to Mr. Sinatra, since he is lauded as having made his albums works of art as a whole, because of the way that the songs fit together and flow. I would really like to see at least a list of the albums he released with publication information, and somehow a way to know whether the album as a whole was created by Mr. Sinatra, or thrown together for remarketing by a record company.DJMsings (talk) 17:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Your wish is granted! Gareth E Kegg (talk) 17:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fails to answer the Big Question

Lots of detail, but after reading through the article, I still don't have the answer I came here for in the first place: What the heck was the big deal with this guy? Why was he so famous and popular? I've heard him sing, I've seen him act; he's pretty good, but nothing all that special. I've never been able to figure out why all the adulation, the almost religious ferver people have about the guy. The only clue I found here is that it started as a bobby-soxer thing (and really, who knows how bobby-soxers think). Seriously, I would love to see maybe a short paragraph or something explaining just what all the fuss was about, what it was about him that people adored and continue to adore so much. Get someone who's a real fan to write it or something. 24.16.111.20 (talk) 08:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

He predates bobby soxers by a fair bit. And if you've heard him sing (the good stuff, I mean, not "New York, New York" or anything after, oh, 1964) and don't get it yet, there probably isn't much an encyclopedia article is going to do for you. You have my condolences! Ford MF (talk) 17:08, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
This isn't supposed to be a forum, but the appeal of Sinatra is, well, ineffable. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 18:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1938 Arrest

There is no mention in the main article or his personal reltionship article about his arreest in 1938 on charges of adultery and seduction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.100.104.17 (talk) 18:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)