Talk:Francis Fukuyama

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Is this correct?

In the latter, he retracts his original "end of history" thesis, arguing that since :biotechnology increasingly allows humans to control their own evolution, it may allow :humans to become fundamentally unequal, and thus spell the end of liberal democracy as a :workable system.

I have just read a newspaper article by Fukuyama himself, on world politics in the aftermath of 9/11, whose headline states

Radical Islam can't beat democracy and capitalism. We're still at the end of history

Check it out

Fukuyama has never retracted his 'End Of History' thesis. I altered the reference to state 'qualified'. (BScotland).

    • he has now however qualified his thesis that "modernization" was inevitable as opposed to democratization. see his recent nytimes article.

Birthdate 1952 or 1955..which is it?

Contents

[edit] "Japanese ancestry"

I removed this phrase. It's ridiculous to make reference to his ethnicity in the opening line of the entry. Would you expect to see the entry on JFK to begin: "35th President of the United States, of Irish Catholic ancestry" ? That's dumb, and I think to see it in Fukuyama's entry sort of smacks of a subconcious racist tendency in whoever wrote it. A thinker's ethnicity should seldom be so important as to demand reference in the opening line (unless it is specifically connected to his work)

I am unsure why, but on the back of the Danish edition of the End of History, it says (translated & parahrased as I don't have it by me) "Francis Fukuyama is a (Japanese) economist." Mikkel 03:19, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Since the man's origins are Japanese, why not say so? Kennedy made a point of his Irish origins. Via his famous father you can find the family's exact origins. Nothing for Fukuyama.

I'm pretty sure that between Fukuyama's name and photo at the top of the article his ethnicity is obvious to anyone who recognizes Japanese surnames, and nothing more need be said. The fact that he is American (and he very much is) is roughly 10,000 times more relevant to understanding his both his work and his influence. As for "origins that must make them insecure within US society", what, do you think all of us non-WASP Americans live in fear?

It's remarkable how many of the NeoCons have origins that must make them insecure within US society. And that they never discuss it, or not that I've seen.

Significant numbers of Japanese Americans were locked up during World War Two. A point to follow up, maybe. --GwydionM 19:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

So were many Germans and Italians! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.161.66.236 (talk) 22:09, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] He recommended removal of Saddam Hussein to President G. W Bush also

"But even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack, any strategy aiming at the eradication of terrorism and its sponsors must include a determined effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq...American military force should be used to provide a "safe zone" in Iraq from which the opposition can operate. And American forces must be prepared to back up our commitment to the Iraqi opposition by all necessary means."

Francis Fukuyama et al., September 20, 2001

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Bushletter.htm

This is ommitted in the original article that he recommended removal of Saddam Hussein to President G. W Bush also.

It seems notable to me, so I've added it, with the PNAC link cited by the above anon comment. JamesMLane t c 05:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV: Still a neoconservative. No?

This sentence is POV: "Politically, Fukuyama has in the past been considered neoconservative." What did he do to break ranks with the other neoconservatives? How do we know he no longer is (or is no longer considered) a neoconservative?

It's not easily citable, but he gave a lecture series last year in which he explained that his own beliefs hadn't changed; rather that the popular understanding of "neoconservative" had changed around them, so that it applied to men like Wolfowitz who focus (in his view) far too much on hard-power unilateralism. (Of course, the popular understanding of the term "neoconservative" is very fuzzy anyway, which is another part of the problem.)

Our article has a direct quotation from him about his break with neoconservatism: "Neoconservatism, as both a political symbol and a body of thought, has evolved into something I can no longer support." That's from his New York Times Magazine essay. The essaye says it's adapted from his book America at the Crossroads, which according to Amazon hasn't been released yet, but I assume it will be out soon. When it is we can cite the quotation to the book. JamesMLane t c 00:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
A recent article in the NY Times also mentions Fukuyama's departure from the neoconservative movement, citing Fukuyama's opposition to the Iraq invasion of 2003 and his call for Rumsfeld to resign as examples. The link: ( http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/books/review/26berman.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1 ).--24.16.234.149 08:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

How do we know? The question this article struck in my mind is: how did this guy ever come to be mistaken for a neocon in the first place? The paraphrase of his politics reads like a neocon anathema: "realistic Wilsonianism"? "military intervention only as a last resort"? "stimulate political and economic development"? "gain a better understanding of what happens in other countries"??? "setting a good example"? "providing education and money"? "the US is good at the formation of international institutions"? Pardon my POV, but unless he had one whiplash jackknife of a conversion, the man described in that paragraph could never have been a neocon. Perhaps someone could amend the article to describe his earlier political bearings. As a liberal myself, I always liked to think of Fukuyama as a conservative I could admire. I'm almost sorry to find that he's one of us!CCJolliffe 01:15, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps your understanding of the term Neoconservative needs some work. In either case neoconservative like any other name refers to a group where there may be substantial disagreements. And as far as whether he was a neocon, I am willing to take his claim to having been one as sufficient. Finally, the description of Fukuyama's politics you claim reads like a neocon anethema, shows that your understanding of the term definitely needs some work: The paraphrase of his politics reads like a neocon anathema: "realistic Wilsonianism"? "military intervention only as a last resort"? "stimulate political and economic development"? "gain a better understanding of what happens in other countries"??? "setting a good example"? "providing education and money"? "the US is good at the formation of international institutions"?

This is not substantially different from what can be found in Joshua Muravchik's Tome EXPORTING DEMOCRACY:FULFILLING AMERICA'S DESTINY.
 To be sure,  "realistic Wilsonianism" seems to belong to his "postneocon" ideas.  You cite "military intervention only as a

last resort" as something laudabile, but can we concretely identify what that means: Can an incomming president simply pick up where his predecessor left off or must he start from scratch? Should every imaginable deal be struck first or Should we be able to realize at some point that no amount of deal making would bring us closer to our goals? In the case of Iraq, after 12 years, 16 U.N resolutions(enough resolutions to justify American action in Kosovo)and numerous side deals, What was left to try ( particularly, in view of the harrasment Blix cited and the STILL incomplete Full and Final disclosures- we were at the 7th or eighth installment of these-) At what point does the U.N's promise of "grave and serious consequences" become more than a punch line? Spiker 22 (talk) 03:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Line

reads: Fukuyama is best known as the author of the silly, adolescent, ignorant nonsense generally known as The End of History and the Last Man


This seems blatantly biased yet it hasn't been addressed by anyone here, am I missing something?

It was vandalism from an anon, quickly reverted. Next time you see stuff like that, be bold and delete it. JamesMLane t c 09:11, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

"The End of History" is one of the most stupid ideas of the 20th century. It's right up there with the Maginot line as really imbecilic ideas. I appreciate that this is POV but it's also true. SmokeyTheFatCat 16:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


No doubt smokey the fat cat hasn't bothered to learn exactly what Fukuyama meant by the phrase "The End of History"

~ Spiker_22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.33.1.37 (talk) 02:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Support of Libby

This statement attribution motivation to Fukuyama needs a source or citation: "FF has said he is on Mr. Libby's steering committee out of loyalty, not support for the policies of the Bush administration or Libby." Where, when, and to whom did Fukuyama say this? Has he said this in public? If not, it probably should not be included here. (E.g., he might have said it to you, or to a student of his, to get mollify them, even though it weren't true.)

[edit] Question

Why does he come off sounding just like another Chicken Hawk who enjoys sending younger men to their deaths? - Sparky 01:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

From this comment one can understand the appeal comic books hav for you. Too bad you can't think beyond comic book reality. ~ Spiker_22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.33.1.37 (talk) 11:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

While I don't necessarily disagree with your characterization, the guiding principle of Wikipedia is to present objective information in the manner of a print encyclopedia, not political opinion or editorial analysis. By the same token, discussion pages for Wikipedia articles are not forums for discussing what you may personally think of a public figure but rather what can be done to improve articles to meet a high standard of objectivity. Inoculatedcities 05:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Influence outside U.S.

Someone or someone(s) today added a section for "Influence outside U.S." At first I thought it was an interesting addition, but needed some citation, and I meant to flag it so. However, looking through the series of edits that created the section, it was clearly created by someone with a clear anti-Fukuyama axe to grind; as such my doubt was such that I simply deleted the section. I would not be surprised if he was controversial outside the U.S., and I would like to see someone add some information. Certainly it would not be too hard to provide a few links to the article if he is actually talked about. But editors adding phrases like "In short, Fukuyama is not taken seriously" are themselves not going to be taken seriously. 171.159.64.10 02:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your impulse to get rid of that section. I do think it is in fact accurate to say that he is not taken seriously as a scholar or philosopher by many reputable intellectuals (especially, for example, those familiar with Hegel and Kojeve, many of whom cringe at the description of FF's End of History and the Last Man as "Hegelian"). But we shouldn't put such claims here without them being sourced, and we certainly should not word them in the way the passage you deleted was worded.--csloat 02:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnicity

I'm not sure, but it seems like it would be pronounced "FOO-ki-yahmuh". And linking alcoholism with Irish ancestry doesn't seem to remotely resemble an NPOV standard, to me. I do hope you are joking. Aaрон Кинни (t) 02:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hegel

Since Hegel is frequently mentioned in Fukuyama's writings, it is fair to ask if he accepts the teaching of Absolute Idealism. Is Fukuyama just dropping a name to appear intellectually cultivated? Does he endorse Hegel's writing style, with its compulsive obscurity and use of neologisms? Does Fichte's triadic process of dialectic make sense to him? Does he believe in the divine Absolute?Lestrade 18:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)Lestrade


Lestrade Are you serious or just trying to stir the pot. If you're trying to stir the pot, you lost the spoon awhile ago. Not sure why one would need to ask about absolute idealism, since Fukuyama does not mention it himself in his works. If he endorsed Hegel's writing style, wouldn't it stand to reason that he would write in this way?. Not sure what "Fichte's triadic process of dialectic" has to do with either Hegel or Fukuyama, but One wonders whether such assertions are designed to make the commentator appear intellectually cultivated. Just as naming oneself, Lestrade is supposed to suggest literary cultivation or at least a large ego(Arthur Conan Doyle rolls over in his grave). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.33.1.37 (talk) 11:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question out of curiosity

Why does the quote that states "[W]ar is the wrong metaphor..." have the "w" in brackets? Don't the brackets denote a logical alteration to the quote by the person quoting the source? If the "w" was not there, then what took its place? I am not saying that whoever added that quote is wrong because a search on google turned up many results fashioned the same way. I am just curious. Thanks a lot. Wikipediarules2221 01:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

This commonly is used when the original sentence was something like "I argue that war is the wrong metaphor"; in the original the "W" was lower-case.--csloat 05:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, okay; I got it now. Thanks a lot for your response. Happy editing! Wikipediarules2221 05:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link to Video Interview with Francis Fukuyama

Hello. I have a query. In the past, I have posted a link to an exclusive video interview with Professor Francis Fukuyama and it has now been removed because, according to the person who removed it, it was considered spam. In fact, the link was posted to enrich and enhance the quality of the article as a whole by providing new and relevant information. Never was my posting of this link done with the intention to create spam or any other malignant activity. It is a pity that readers of wikipedia can no longer take advantage of this video interview, which, I think (and you may judge for yourself by clicking here: http://www.thetalent.org/Video/frm-main.php?show=19&quality=stop) is an important source of knowledge for those interested in his work. Would the readers of this talkpage and whoever who has the authority to remove links please let me know whether they agree to add this link or whether they consider it of no interest to the article in question? Taleinfo 11:32, 4 February 2007 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Taleinfo (talk • contribs) 11:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Just look at other links, there is for example 3 hour C-Span interview, I doubt your extremely short interview can really add anything.--Pethr 17:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iraq War

Can anybody provide evidence that Fukuyama opposed the Iraq war prior to its apparent failure? Ivangeotsky

Is Wikipedia joining other media in making it seem apparent that the war has failed? This united strategy worked 35 years ago and handed victory to the Viet Cong. Can it work today and hand victory to al-Qaeda?72.73.195.87 02:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)Warren Rabbit

Holy bias, Batman! Leaving aside the question of whether victory is still possible, the question remains: Is there any indication that Fukuyama opposed the Iraq war prior to its apparent failure (i.e. the fact that the war was not the "cakewalk" that had been predicted by neo-cons)? Ivangeotsky

[edit] Criticism

Why is there no criticism of this idiot? He's a neocon for fucks sakes, a bunch of small minded parasites who've killed a lot of people so Cheney can get rich. His "ideas" are a result of parochial american simplifications and have been shown to be rubbish. He's as visionary as the guy who wanted to close the patent office in the 1800s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.161.187 (talk) 23:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that there should be more criticism but somehow I doubt you should be the one to do it. --Jayson Virissimo 05:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


Criticism usually comes from someone who knows what they are talking about. 83.70.161.187 knows how to be vitriolic but can't raise his head above ad hominem. One can certainly disagree with a neoconservative, but that entails knowing what their ideas are in the first place. Typical liberal confuses differences of opinion with questions of character. Definitely the hallmark of the fanatic who pays lipservice to things like tolerance and diversity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.33.1.37 (talk) 12:14, 9 January 2008 (UTC)