Talk:Francis Bok

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Contents

[edit] Notes on this article

This article incorporates essentially all of the information I could find on Francis, so if there are missing topics or details, I am not sure they can be found. The semi-automated peer review script has been run on the article and it finds several apparent errors which are not actually there (as noted). I believe that this article meets the criteria for GA. Any feedback on it will be greatly appreciated. I will seek to make any changes requested. Dincher (talk) 01:43, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Dincher (talk) 23:29, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I ran the link checker hereDincher (talk) 20:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:SELFPUB

There is a book ("Escape from Slavery: The True Story of My Ten Years...") being used as a source that is self published (i.e. written by Bok himself). This book apparently makes claims about third parties that are probably alive (e.g. Giemma Abdullah). Yet WP:SELFPUB says that self-published sources can't be used for "claims about third parties." Bless sins (talk) 17:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess I will have to withdraw it from GA. I will not remove Bok's testimony about his treatment. Dincher (talk) 19:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Do you deny that Francis Bok was a slave just because it is his word against another's?Dincher (talk) 20:02, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay. I initially overreacted upon reading the WP:SELFPUB notice. Sorry. Would the article be okay as it is if I remove Giemma Abdullah's name from the article and just reference to him as a captor or slave owner, etc. Dincher (talk) 20:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I do not think his autobiography falls under the self-published policy becasue it is not self-published. While Bok wrote the book himself (apparently with some help, as a co-author is listed), it was not published by Bok, but by a large (and reputable) publisher: St. Martin's Press.
While Bok's autobiography is not a third-party account (since it is by Bok and about Bok), I believe it is OK as a source. Quoting WP:SOURCES In general, the most reliable sources are peer-reviewed journals and books published in university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. So St Martin's Press, Christianity Today and USA Weekend magazine, etc. have all deemed his story believable enough to publish it (and open themselves to lawsuits if he made false accusations).
Perhaps add something like "according Bok his captor's name was..." or "Bok reports his rescuer was..." to make it clear it is not from a third-party source? Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:16, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
PS Perhaps asking about this at Wikiproject Biography would be helpful - I am guessing they have seen similar sitautions. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for comment

There is some debate as to whether or not the use of an autobiography by Francis Bok as a source for identifying a slave holder (Giemma Abdullah) violates WP:SELFPUB. Discussion on this topic has begun in the preceding section of this talk page. Dincher (talk) 02:09, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments. They are very helpful. Dincher (talk) 19:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment. Bok's autobiography is not self-published (St. Martin's press is an excellent, reliable publisher). However, the book as a source for identifying Giemma Abdullah as a slave holder does violate WP:BLP, see this and this. Also, autobiographies are considered primary research, which usually means only non-controversial facts can be presented. Anything of controversy needs a secondary source. If vetted news sources corroborate Bok's claim that Giemma Abdullah is a slave holder, then I think it would be fine. Renee (talk) 12:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments. I surveyed the references and found the following. USA Today does not identify Giemma Abdullah (GA). The Dick Staub Interview and James Lehman article identify GA by "Giemma" only. Lappen identifies him as Giemma Abdullah. My thought is to remove the last name of Mr. Adbullah from the article. Thoughts? Dincher (talk) 19:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Although I am not sure "Abdullah" is his last name (some cultures list names in reverse order compared to western practice), if two third-party articles refer to him as Giemma, I think it would be OK here. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay. I will remove the "Abdullah's" from the article. Dincher (talk) 21:42, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
The "Abdullah's" have been removed.Dincher (talk) 21:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BLP/N

At the suggestion of User:Athaenara, I have listed this at the Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard, here. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

I will post a full review shortly, but here are some preliminary notes:

  1. Try adding the title of the book to the references, instead of just saying "Bok, page xx".
I changed it to a condensed version of the title. Is this okay? Dincher (talk) 15:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  1. The article has some unecessary details, almost trivial. Remember that it needs to be relevant to his life. Wikipedia is not made to detail every single thing in a person's life.
Thanks. I will await further details. Dincher (talk) 15:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Noble Story (talk) 14:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Full review has been posted here. Noble Story (talk) 12:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

My second review is posted. Noble Story (talk) 05:24, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comments 1

[edit] Lead

"Bok's autobiography, Escape from Slavery: The True Story of My Ten Years in Captivity and My Journey to Freedom in America, published by St. Martin's Press, chronicles his life, from his early youth, his years in captivity, to his work in the United States as an abolitionist."

I think this information should be placed somewhere else in the lead, as it's in the middle of the details of his life.

  • Thanks. I moved this to the end of the lead.

[edit] Childhood and abduction

"Because he preferred to join his father among the herds instead of playing with his siblings and friends, Francis (called "Piol") was a favorite of his father's. In fact, just before his abduction, his father began calling him Muycharko, meaning "like twelve men"."

Exactly how relevant is the fact that he was his father's favorite to his life?

  • Moved this out.

"When Francis was captured at the age of 7 on May 15, 1986, he could not count beyond 10 and knew very little of the outside world. His primary concerns centered on following his father around their pastures and playing alweth, a game similar to hide and seek, and Madallah, a native game similar to cricket."

How important is it for us to know that he played alweth and madallah, and that he couldn't count past 10? How about just saying he was uneducated?

  • Got rid of games bit left in that he couldn't count past 10.

"When he was captured, Francis' mother, Adut Al Akok, sent him, along with some older siblings and neighbors, to the village of Nyamlell to sell eggs and peanuts in the village market. This was Francis' first trip to the village without his mother, and it was the first time that his mother entrusted him with some of the family's products for selling at the market."

How important is it that he was selling eggs and peanuts?

  • I can't find the best wat to word this. I wanted to say produce but eggs aren't produce. So I left it at eggs and peanuts.

"Francis went to the market and sat with other sellers under a large tree, where he heard adults say that they had seen smoke coming from nearby villages and had heard gunfire in the distance. People had begun fleeing the market as Francis looked over his shoulder and saw horsemen with machine guns. The gunmen had surrounded the market and were shooting the men in Nyamlell."

Is it relevant to his life that he was sitting under a large tree? How about summarizing a bit, and saying "When Bok was at the market, raiders surrounded the market and killed all the men and captured all women and children"?

  • Got rid of the bit about him sitting under the tree.

"Francis Bok witnessed the execution of a 12-year-old girl, murdered because she would not stop crying."

Is this necessary information?

  • Deleted this too, but it does illustrate the cruelty of the raiders.

[edit] Life as a slave

"Giemma placed Francis atop a donkey that was part of a caravan of slaves, stolen produce, livestock and wares that the militia had captured in their raid of the Dinka settlement."

Do we need to know that he was placed on top of a donkey?

  • Removed this too

"Francis was left in a hovel near the pens of Giemma's goats, camels, cattle and horses."

Is it relevant that he was near the pens of "goats, camels, cattle and horses"?

  • Changed to livestock. I want to keep this. It shows that Bok was considered to be less than human.

"For the first five years Francis was entrusted only with the goats."

Relevance?

  • Gone

"Young Francis began to suspect that his life was going to change forever and that his father was not going to be able to save him."

Reference, maybe?

  • Referenced

"Francis was beaten again but Giemma chose not to kill him as Francis had become too valuable to the family as a slave. Despite his repeated attempts to flee, he was considered to be a fine herdsman by his captor. If, according to Bok, Giemma had killed Francis, there would have been no one as good to watch over and tend the herds."

You established the fact he was needed, so he was not killed. Three sentences repeating basically the same thing are not really needed.

  • Taken care of

"Francis had been freed by a Muslim who believed that what some of his fellow Muslims in Northern Sudan were doing was wrong. Francis arrived in Khartoum with no money and no place to go. In less than a year, he had made his way from slavery to the capital city of Sudan. He was hungry, tired and did not know where to turn. Fortunately for Francis, another stranger would help him find his way to his fellow Dinka tribespeople in Khartoum."

Keep the verb tense consistent with the rest of the paragraph.

  • Corrected this. Thanks for pointing it out.

[edit] Journey to the United States

"His was journey sponsored by Lutheran Social Services."

Eliminate "was" in the sentence.

  • Changed to His journey was sponsored by Lutheran Social Services.

[edit] General

You refer to the article subject by his first name in almost every instance. From WP:MOSBIO#Subsequent uses of names: "After the initial mention of any name, the person may be referred to by surname only." Also: "It is preferable to refer to the person by surname, not given name, even if the subject is not controversial. The use of the given name gives the impression that the writer knows the subject personally, which, even if true, is not relevant.

  • Done

Also, in the references, in every case that you quote the book, you should use italics for the book. And, list the full detail of the book in the first reference of it. In other words, you use Escape From Slavery in ref. 5, but only give the whole info in ref. 7.

  • Done

I think there are more probably things that need to be addressed, but I'll just leave these comments for now, and see what happens. Noble Story (talk) 12:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comments 2

[edit] Lead

"Bok was aided by people of diverse cultures and faiths in his journey to freedom."

Is this relevant?

  • Yes. It shows that many different people helped him, specifically Muslims and Christians.

"His earliest steps towards the United States were helped by a Northern Sudanese Muslim family that believed that slavery was wrong. He stayed with the Muslim family for two months."

Do you need to say that they believed slavery was wrong? And try to combine the sentences in some way.

  • Yes. From my reading slavery is very common among the Muslims of Northern Sudan and those who don't hold slaves tend to look the other way. Also shows that not all Muslims believe that slavery is oaky. Sentences have been combined.

"Upon arriving in Khartoum, Bok was aided by fellow Dinka tribesman and members of the Fur people. Bok's trip to the United States was paid for by members of the Lutheran church."

These sentences are sort of short, so try to combine and improve the flow a little.

  • combined.

"Bok has testified before the United States Senate and met with George W. Bush, Madeleine Albright and Condoleezza Rice telling them his story of slavery. "

There should be a comma after telling.

  • Shouldn't it be before telling?

[edit] Childhood and abduction

"When he was captured, Bok's mother, Adut Al Akok, sent him, along with some older siblings and neighbors, to the village of Nyamlell to sell eggs and peanuts in the village market. This was Bok's first trip to the village without his mother, and it was the first time that his mother entrusted him with some of the family's products for selling at the market."

1. Do we need to know that he was with his siblings and neighbors? Yes. Shows that he wasn't sent alone 2. Do we need to know that it was his first time at the market? Yes.

"People had begun fleeing the market as Francis looked over his shoulder and saw horsemen with machine guns."

Do we need to know he "looked over his shoulder"?

  • looked over his should has been removed

"The raiders were part of an Islamic militia from the northern part of Sudan. Most of the northern Sudanese are Muslims of Arab descent, while the Dinka are Christians or animists of Sub-Saharan African descent. The militia conducted periodic raids into Dinka territory during the Second Sudanese Civil War. The militiamen killed all the Dinka men and captured the women and children."

Try combined the first two and the last two together to improve the flow of the paragraph.

  • combined

[edit] Life as a slave

"Seven-year-old Bok was captured by Giemma, a member of the slave hunting militia. Bok was forced to join a caravan of slaves, stolen produce, livestock and wares that the militia had captured in their raid of the Dinka settlement.When the members of the militia split up to return to their homes, Bok was taken by Giemma. Upon arriving at Giemma's residence, Francis was beaten by his captor's children with sticks and was called abeed. The name literally means "slave" and the stereotype is that of an inferior, demeaned, Negroid race. Francis was given quarters in a hovel near the pens of Giemma's livestock."

These are all short sentences. Try combining some information, using compound/complex sentences.

  • Thanks. I combined them.

"Bok began a ten year period of slavery at the hands of Giemma and his son Hamid. He was forced to tend the family's herds of livestock.[14] He had to take them to pastures in the area and to local watering holes. At the watering holes, Bok saw other Dinka boys who were also forced to tend herds of livestock."

Again, these sentences are rather choppy and short.

  • Thanks again. Combined some more

"Care of the cattle, horses and camels was passed to Bok and he was able to spend more time alone with the animals. Previously he had been under the careful supervision of Hamid and sometimes Giemma."

Is is relevant to know that "he was able to spend more time alone with the animals"?

  • Yes. Shows that Francis was given time alone to escape

"Giemma's peer returned Francis to the Giemma's compound where he was beaten with a bullwhip."

Comma is needed after "compound".

  • Taken care of.

"Bok attempted to escape once again just two days later. This time he fled in the opposite direction of his previous escape. He once again fled for several miles, this time keeping to the forest."

These sentences are too choppy.

  • reworked

"Francis was beaten again but Giemma chose not to kill him as Francis had become too valuable to the family as a slave."

Comma needed after "again" and after "him".

  • comma placed

[edit] Escape

"He was forced to work at the police station, cleaning and cooking for the men who were supposed to provide protection to people like Bok. He had no intention of escaping one form of slavery for another."

The first sentence seems like a personal comment. The second needs a reference, if it needed at all.

  • Personal comment deleted.

"Bok escaped from the police by simply taking their donkeys to the well, tying them and leaving them behind as he walked into the crowded marketplace."

You should put a comma after "tying them".

  • comma was placed

"Ultimately Abdah bought a bus ticket to Khartoum for Bok."

This sentence is terse, try combining it with something else.

  • combined/lenghtened

"After being enslaved for 10 years, he was freed by a Muslim who believed that what some of his fellow Muslims in Northern Sudan were doing was wrong."

Again, this seems like a personal comment.

  • Left it in, shows Abdah is quoted in the book saying this.

"Francis Bok arrived in Khartoum with no money and no place to go. In less than a year, he made his way from slavery to the capital city of Sudan."

The first sentence is too short, so try combining it. The second sentence again seems like personal commentary. In any case, it's redundant, as it's a rather obvious statement.

  • Elimnated personal comment

"Francis Bok arrived in Khartoum with no money and no place to go...He was hungry, tired and did not know where to turn. Fortunately for Francis, another stranger helped him find his way to his fellow Dinka tribespeople in Khartoum."

The first two sentences are rather short, and it is probably unnecessary to say that he was hungry and tired. You should probably just eliminate the second sentence altogether and combine the first sentence with the third.

  • Combined sentences

[edit] Journey to the United States

"Francis Bok arrived in Khartoum and eventually found his way, with the help of a stranger who spotted him at the bus station, to a large settlement of Dinka refugees called Jabarona."

I think you are repeating what you just said in the last part of the above section.

  • Thanks sentences have been removed

"Bok settled among people who were from the Aweil area of North Bahr al Ghazal and began using his Christian name of Francis one again."

"one again" is a typo.

  • fixed

"Francis was interrogated numerous times while he was imprisoned. Each time he denied that he was a slave. He was finally released from prison after seven months. Once he was released Bok decided that he must leave Sudan."

These sentences are rather short and terse.

  • combined

"Once he was released Bok decided that he must leave Sudan. Through the help of some Dinka tribesman he was able to acquire a Sudanese passport on the black market and obtain a ticket for passage to Cairo by way of bus to Wadi Halfa and finally a boat on the Nile River to Cairo."

Do we need to know exactly how he got to Caire, and all the different forms of transportation he took?

  • Changed it.

"Bok flew from Cairo to John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City on August 13, 1999. From there he flew to Fargo, North Dakota by way of Chicago. His journey was sponsored by Lutheran Social Services."

1. These sentences are rather short, try combining them someway. combined. 2. Do we need to know that he stopped over in Chicago? No

[edit] Work as an abolitionist

"Jesse Sage and Charles Jacobs persuaded Bok moved to Boston to work with the AASG."

Who is Jesse Sage? You did not mention him/her anytime before, so clarify who the person is.

  • Fixed

"He arrived in Boston on May 14, 2000. AASG helped him find an apartment near Fenway Park. A week after moving to Boston, he was invited to speak at a Baptist church in Roxbury. He was also interviewed by Charles A. Radin of The Boston Globe. Two days after his speech in Roxbury, Bok was asked to appear on the steps of the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C."

These sentences are all rather terse, try to improve the flow. Also, is it necessary to say that he had an apartment near Fenway Park?

  • combined and eliminated Fenway Park

"Francis Bok has spoken at churches and universities throughout the United States and Canada. He has helped launch the American Anti-Slavery Group's website iAbolish.com at a Jane's Addiction concert before an audience of 40,000 on April 28, 2001."

First of all, you changed the tense from the past to the present in the middle of the paragraph. Either keep the tense consistent or make a new paragraph. And, try combining the sentences.

  • New paragraph sentences combined.

"His autobiography, Escape from Slavery: The true story of my ten years in captivity - and my journey to freedom in America, was published in 2003 by St. Martin's Press."

The subtitle for the book is different than the one in the lead section. Which one is correct?

  • fixed

[edit] Comments 3

[edit] Lead

"He stayed with the Muslim family for two months and provided him a bus ticket to Khartoum. Upon arriving in Khartoum..."

"And provided him..." That's not grammatical. Provide a subject for that clause.

  • Fixed. hopefully. Dincher (talk) 14:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Childhood and abduction

"Bok went to the market, where he heard adults say that they had seen smoke coming from nearby villages and had heard gunfire in the distance. People had begun fleeing the market as Francis saw horsemen with machine guns. The gunmen had surrounded the market and were shooting the men in Nyamlell."

As this is a past event, keep the tense in the past as well (as in "people began fleeing", "gunmen surrounded", etc.)

"The raiders were part of an Islamic militia from the northern part of Sudan, that conducted periodic raids on the villages of their Dinka neighbors who are Christians or animists of Sub-Saharan African descent. The militia conducted periodic raids into Dinka territory during the Second Sudanese Civil War, killing many Dinka men and capturing women and children."

The two sentences basically say the same thing. Eliminate one or the other.

  • Eliminated and added to previous paragraph. Dincher (talk) 14:08, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Life as a slave

"Upon arriving at Giemma's residence, Francis was beaten by his captor's children with sticks and was called abeed, which literally means "slave" and the stereotype is that of an inferior, demeaned, Negroid race."

OK, this sentence is a run-on. Maybe try splitting it up after "slave".

[edit] Escape

"He regularly praised Bok's work with the animals yet still forced him to live a life of slavery."

"He" doesn't really have a clear noun before it. So clarify who "he" is.

  • He has been identified. Dincher (talk) 14:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"Instead of helping him, the Muslim police made him their slave for two months. He was forced to work at the police station."

These sentences are short, try combining them.

"After being enslaved for 10 years, he was freed by a Muslim who believed that what some of his fellow Muslims in Northern Sudan were doing was wrong."

If this is a quote, then use quotation marks and a reference. If you don't do that, then it's plagiarism.

  • It is not a quote and it is referenced. Dincher (talk) 14:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"Francis Bok arrived in Khartoum with no money and no place to go, he was hungry, tired and did not know where to turn."

This sentence is a run-on. And, as I said before, try to eliminate the "hungry and "tired" part.

  • Okay. Eliminated. Dincher (talk) 14:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Journey to the United States

"Here they were forced to live together in sub-standard conditions with filth running through the streets and secret police eavesdropping on their conversations."

This sentence seems rather sensational. Try to tone it down to a professional look (i.e. shorten and/or drop the part about filth and secret police eavesdropping).

"Francis was interrogated numerous times while he was imprisoned, each time he denied that he was a slave. "

Add a conjunction for the second clause.

Conjunction added. Dincher (talk) 14:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"Bok applied for and received UN refugee status on September 15, 1998, after several months of waiting. The United States Immigration and Naturalization Service agreed to allow Francis to move to the U.S."

Maybe combine these sentences with an "and".

Combined. Dincher (talk) 14:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"Bok flew from Cairo to John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City on August 13, 1999, from there he flew to Fargo, North Dakota."

Maybe just eliminate which airport he flew into. Also, use an "and" before "from.

  • Eliminated airport and added. Dincher (talk) 14:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"His journey was sponsored by Lutheran Social Services. The Lutheran organization provided an apartment for Francis in Fargo and helped him find a job."

Maybe say something like "His journey was sponsored by Lutheran Social Services, which also provided..."

[edit] Work as an abolitionist

"Jesse Sage, associate director of the American Anti-slaver Group, and Charles Jacobs persuaded Bok moved to Boston to work with the AASG."

After referring to Jacobs already, use just the last name.

  • Taken care of Dincher (talk) 14:27, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"He was initially hesitant to leave his new friends in Ames, but according to Bok the people at AASG were persistent."

Use a comma after "Bok".

"Two days after his speech in Roxbury, Bok was asked to appear on the steps of the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C."

What does it mean, he appeared on the steps? Did he just stand there? Clarify the meaning.

"Francis Bok has spoken at churches and universities throughout the United States and Canada, he has helped launch the American Anti-Slavery Group's website iAbolish.com at a Jane's Addiction concert before an audience of 40,000 on April 28, 2001."

Use an "and" to connect the clauses.

  • added an and. Dincher (talk) 14:27, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, you say a lot about his early life, slavehood, and escape and journey to the US. But there is only a small section on his current work as an abolitionist. What is he doing now? Any more info?

  • I have included what I could find in my resources. Dincher (talk) 14:27, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Noble Story (talk) 13:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comments 4

[edit] Lead

"He stayed with the Muslim family for two months, that provided him a bus ticket to Khartoum."

You already said they were Muslim in the last sentence. Also, it should be, "...and they provided him..."

"Upon arriving in Khartoum, Bok was aided by fellow Dinka tribesman and members of the Fur people and his trip to the United States was paid for by members of the Lutheran church."

Comma after "people".

[edit] Childhood and abduction

"People began fleeing the market as Francis saw horsemen with machine guns. The gunmen surrounded the market and shot the men in Nyamlell."

Try combining the sentences, as in "People began fleeing the market as Francis saw horsemen with machine guns surround the market and shoot..."

  • I can't make the change requested. I believe that this is worded properly. It shows that the raiders were on horses and armed. Dincher (talk) 16:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

"The raiders were part of an Islamic militia from the northern part of Sudan, that conducted periodic raids on the villages of their Dinka neighbors who are Christians or animists of Sub-Saharan African descent."

Eliminate the comma after "Sudan", and put a comma after "neighbors". Also, use the past tense in this sentence.

[edit] Life as a slave

"Which literally means "slave" and the stereotype is that of an inferior, demeaned, Negroid race."

Replace the word "which" with "The word".

  • Change made. Dincher (talk) 17:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

"His attempts to speak to the other Dinka boys were futile, as they were speaking Arabic which he could not understand; and they also seemed afraid to speak to him."

Put a comma after "Arabic" and eliminate the "and" after the semicolon.

[edit] Escape

"Bok asked a man with a truck to give him a ride to any place other than Mutari."

I think it would be good just to say he asked him for a ride, and not add the extra info.

  • Disagree. This shows that Francis wanted to leave Mutari. Saying that he just wanted a ride doesn't give enough detal. Maybe the ride just goes to the other side of town. I chaged it to Bok asked a man with a truck to give him a ride out of Mutari Hope this works. Dincher (talk) 17:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Journey to the United States

"Jabarona was filled with Dinka refugees who had fled the fighting in the south of Sudan. Here they were forced to live together in sub-standard conditions."

Maybe you could combine the sentences ("Jabarona was filled with Dinka refugees who had fled the fighting in the south of Sudan, and were foreced...")

[edit] Final GA review

Review of Francis Bok

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

After making the necessary changes, this is now a GA. Noble Story (talk) 02:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unreliable sources

This article still contains a bit of unreliable sources. I'll be removing/replacing them over the next while. Examples are: [1] (a non-objective source that appears to be a missionary site), any link from FrontPage Magazine, http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Igpress/2000-07/wsudan.html] (another missionary website whose objective is to "evangelize the social world by building up the Kingdom of Christ"). If you beleive any of the sources is reliable, then perhaps you are correct and I'm mistaken. Please give your explanation below.Bless sins (talk) 14:57, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I changed the reference for the material that you removed to the book reference. Please don't remove anything else without checking the references first. Front Page Mag got their material from the book.Dincher (talk) 15:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
What is unreliable about the interview? Francis Bok is the source of the information. His story has been published and vetted by a notable and major publishing company. Dincher (talk) 15:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I have asked User:Ealdgyth, who checks all the sources at WP:FAC to look at the sources in this article and weigh in on their reliability. I also found this from the New York Times, which is definitely a reliable source: [2] Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Ealdgyth will take a look in the next 24 hours or so - she is travelling and has limited access to the internet. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Please proceed with adding NYT (and other reliable sources) to this article. Please refrain from adding unreliable sources (such as FPM).Bless sins (talk) 06:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Done for now. Will fix more hopefully soon. Dincher (talk) 19:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay. I have made some more changes. The Dick Staub Interview is out as a reference is moved out and to External links and the PBS and NY Times work has been moved to references. Dincher (talk) 00:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)