Talk:Francis Bacon (painter)

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Contents

[edit] What movement was Bacon really a part of?

In "The Colony Room" section, the sentence that David Sylvester was wrong in..."but had erroneously perceived it to be a form of Expressionism" needs to be cited. The MoMA, where Painting is located, refers to Bacon as a Post-War Expressionist.* In this article, he is cited as a figurative painter, which doesn't describe his work well enough. Searching around, too, he is repeatedly referred to as either an Abstract Expressionist or a Post-War Expressionist.

  • Here is the PDF from the MoMA:

http://www.moma.org/about_moma/press/2004/P_S_Main.pdf

Jeni Mc 16:14, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A note on title/date forms

I have used the title form

Painting. 1946

throughout. This is preferable to

Painting (1946)

since (although not part of the title) the date is crucial in distinguishing it from

Painting. 1950

for instance, and is not a mere adjunct.

Painting, 1946

is wrong as the title is "Painting". The forms

Painting, 1946

and

Painting 1946

are also correct but less clear. If applied it should be done throughout the article to avoid confusion. -- User:82.43.154.23 03:21, 27 September 2005

Well I agree that the style should be consistent. I suspect that it isn't something that is covered by the Manual of Style yet. In general I prefer the second form, however, it is a subject that is better discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts, since this would apply to many arts related articles. -- Solipsist 08:47, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
The second form seems to be the 'house style' here. I would argue for a special case to be allowed for the MoMA painting, which is spoken of as "Painting 1946" even though the title is "Painting". I propose that the last form, which is that of the 1964 catalogue raisonné, be used in this case. 82.43.154.23 13:46, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

On reflection, I have brought Painting (1946) into conformity with the rest of the article. 82.43.154.23 12:39, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

There could well be a case for making an exception for some paintings with generic names. It can be particularly tricky to identify the work of some modern artists who steadfastly refuse to title their work anything other than 'untitled' — especially when they are likely to have done several 'untitled's in the same year. I often see Roman numerals being applied in such cases, for example
Untitled IX (1992), oil on canvas.
but I have never been sure whether its the artist or the gallery who added the Roman numerals.
Similar problems occur with many medieval canvases where several titles might apply (most of them derived from different sources at much later dates). In those cases the size of the painting is also usually used to help identify a specific painting.
My impression is that the most common long format when refering to works of art is;
Artist, Title, (date) width x height, medium, collection.
but you still see plenty of variations. -- Solipsist 15:59, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Title

When I entered Francis Bacon in Wiki search, only the 17thC. philosopher came up - needs disambiguation.--shtove 23:24, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hmmmm

I think the Biographical detail is fantastic, but it abruptly stops in the early 50's, and I don't think that someone learning about Bacon for the first time would want to wade through the words that lead up to influences...he was an artist...and there is little discussion of technique... User:Gareth E Kegg 22:49, 19 October 2005

Thank-you for my share of the compliment, but I have only been revising this article since 21/9/05. I do plan to go on into the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s, and summarize the 1980s and 1990s as well; I plan to have a section on his technique, one on the interviews with Sylvester, and a separate article on the estate. Please do go ahead and start any of these you are able and willing to. The point is well made about a neopyhte coming to this article, but, a few pictures of major works, of Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion and Painting (1946) in particular, would help. Copyright is with the Estate but may be judged 'fair use' in this context(?). The 'Contents' near the top of the article allows anyone to skip the earlier sections without the need to wade.(82.43.154.23 01:47, 20 October 2005 (UTC))

At some point in the early/mid 50s, Bacon bought a house in Queen's Road in the village of Wivenhoe, Essex. I recall Nicholas Butler writing about this in his book, "The Story of Wivenhoe", but unfortunately my copy has gone walkabout. Does anyone have further details? Daen 15:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I found it - it was a one-line reference from the Wivenhoe Town Council guide to the village from 1993, not Nick Butler. Wirth-Miller lived in the village in the early 50s, and Bacon spent time in a "holiday cottage" in Queen's Road. Daen 13:56, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I was surprised there was no mention of Bacon's homosexuality, save an oblique reference in a footnote, in this article. Perhaps this would be an appropriate area to expand upon, at least in passing in the painter's basic history.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Catachrestic (talk • contribs) 00:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC).

There is a mention of his relationship with George Dyer in the "Later Life" section. Jeni Mc 15:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feature article?

I think this is a great article. Though "Bacon's legacy" could be expanded... Selfinformation 17:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Theres one thing as too much info and optimal infomation, after a quick review i find the article to be a little indulgent and giving perhaps too much info that is not properly placed or ordered. Certainly not optimal information me thinks.

[edit] Restructure

I'd like to move the discussion of specific painting to dedicated articles, leaving this page for purely biographical info. I think this is a great article as is, but perhalps could be expanded into an excellent FB category. --Coil00 23:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about grammar in intro paragraph

He also created "an" portrait of Michele Leiris? Surely this is incorrect, or is there some obscure "an" rule I am overlooking?

[edit] "Anglo-Irish"

I object to the term Anglo Irish being used in the opening paragraph.By that logic Oasis and most members of the Beatles should be classified as Hiberno-Saxon.Ireland has suffered enough devision and fragmenation.A note in the biographical section stating that Bacon was of English parentage should suffice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.101.222.28 (talk) 21:15, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

I think its fine, by every definition of the term Bacon was Anglo-Irish. He was born in Dublin to Protestant English parents who often travelled back and forth between the two islands. The term is widely used, and not in the least derogatory. Ceoil 19:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


Let's call him British and everybody will be happy on the other side of the island!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.15.81 (talk) 21:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Being Irish"

The article indicates that Bacon was born to English parents, but then states later that Straffan Lodge in Naas, County Kildare, was the birthplace of both parents. Unless I misread it, the article supports the theory that someone born in one country of parents, both of whom were born in that same country is actually partially of a different country. Does the writer know how far back one has to go into Bacon's family history to actually find someone born in England?

I think they'll try to do that soon!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.15.81 (talk) 21:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar?

In the 3rd paragraph in the "London, Berlin, and Paris" section, it says:

"...One of the men was an ex-army friend of his father, another breeder of race-horses, named Harcourt-Smith. Bacon later claimed that his father had asked this friend to take him 'in-hand' and 'make a man of him'. Francis had a difficult relationship with his father, once admitting to be[ing] sexually attracted to him...."

This makes it sound as if Francis was sexually attracted to his own father (which I can understand would make the relationship difficult). Should it say, instead, that he was attracted to Harcourt-Smith? Z Wylld 20:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

No, you were right the first time. See his "Screaming Pope" series from the early 1950s. Ceoil 20:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Delezue

"The philosopher Gilles Deleuze has contributed greatly to the interpretation of Bacon's work." This line seems to me out of place in the opening paragraph of the entry. Is there some special connection between Deleuze and Bacon that merits this? In what way is Deleuze contribution any greater (in some objective sense) than any other critic? Axamoto 20:23, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree its out of place in the current form of a very short and weak lead. Several heavyweights wrote extensively on Bacon, Deleuze was paticularly insightful, but so were Leiris, Sylvester etc. Ceoil 20:30, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Interviews with Francis Bacon (1993).jpg

Image:Interviews with Francis Bacon (1993).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External links section

It's too long. Probably some of the links to images are to sites where the image is a copyvio. Some of the links are actually wikilinks and should be in a "See also" section, if not linked in the main text. Ty 02:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)