Talk:Fourteen Words

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This article was nominated for deletion on 12 November 2007. The result of the discussion was No consensus..

Contents 1 Terminology 2 Anarchist 14 words? 3 Stub? 4 ADL 5 I'm not a Nazi but 6 The Order was a Supremacist group?

[edit] Terminology

The Fourteen Words are a Neo-Nazi slogan which was coined by formerly imprisoned The Order member, David Lane. They state "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children." It is often used as a recruiting tool at places like gun shows and is commonly used as a greeting by fellow Neo-Nazis to affirm ones affiliation with White Pride. It is also often spraypainted or used to deface property in order to mark "turf" in prisons and other urban areas so it is also considered a gang symbol.

Changed from neo-nazi to white nationalist. If someone say 'Future for black children' is he a black neo-nazi ? AlV 09:23, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't know but I think you're a white neo-nazi or at least a nazi sympathizer.

No, I think he's just enforcing the NPoV. I too hate these people, but the correct term for these racist freaks should be used.

agreed. In normal discourse I'd call them nazis, but for an academic article white nationalist or supremacist should be used. The Ungovernable Force 05:28, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Black Entertainment Television, Black Panthers, Black Pride, Global Black Forum website, One Hundred Black Men in Law Enforcement organization, Historically Black Towns and Universities, Black History Month etc. Black nazis?

Oh, poor whites being discriminated against. "Boo hoo, we aren't allowed to talk about race but the blacks can. It's just not fair. Waaah." C'mon, there's a big difference between an oppressed group showing pride in the face of discrimination and a dominant group attempting to portray themselves as victims who need to fight to "secure [an] existence" when they already have authority and power over the other groups. Especially when the people in the latter group often use their supposed oppression as an excuse to further oppress minorities. The Ungovernable Force 04:24, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

The Unthinking Force: Discrimination is discrimination in any format, racism is racism in any format. As far as I'm concerned the "blacks talking about race" can be heard on any contemporary rap album from these so called "artists". How many times have they used the word nigger or other such terms? More importantly, would you say that such albums or even the earlier writings of Malcolm X are anything but unabashed racism? Racism comes in many forms and it affects everyone. I strongly suggest you disassociate yourself from this article, you show a startling inability to stay NPOV for such a sensitive topic.

Did you not see me say that even though I personally think "white nationalists" are Nazis, that we shouldn't say that in an article? There is a big difference between staying NPOV in real life and doing it while writing an article. Bias is allowed on talk pages. As for rap albums, I personally find most hip-hop music (and most popular music in general) to be incredibly distasteful. In fact, mainstream rap and hip-hop is probably my least favorite genre, mainly because of the sexism, homophobia, apathy, and materialism gushing from it. I'd guess there is probably some racism towards whites in some of it as well, but I haven't really spent enough time listening to it to pay attention. I only listen to a few rap artists and they are all underground and/or conscious hip-hop artists. I'm not saying there aren't times where non-whites are prejudiced towards whites, but to say that black pride is analogous to white pride is not taking into account the very different situations the groups are in. And as for using the word "nigger," I don't use it and I don't really care. I'm not black and it isn't my place to say whether a black person should be allowed to use a word like that. If they want to, that's there perogative. Just like if I want to use the word "queer". I'll be ready to fight if someone calls me queer as an insult, but there is a big difference when queers use it in a way to affirm identity. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 07:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

'oppressed minority group showing pride'? That's great but we all know what will happen when (not if) they become the majority, the doublespeak will just call them a "majority minority" and they'll still be allowed to behave the same way, and when the last white person dies they'll disolve all their black organisations and do a song and dance but how much more tolerant they are than these bad whites. I'm sure it will be really easy to be tolerant and fair when everyone's black, it's like the Nazis killing all the Jews and other minorities and then bringing in equality laws!

This page should remain here permanently, as the 14 Words are the centre of White Nationalism, a cause supported by many thousands of white people. It is all about the survival, and quality of life of, white people. The number of whites in the world is falling due to mass ethnic immigration into white countries, widespread miscegenation causing huge numbers of whites to have mixed-race children, the very high birthrates of many ethnic people, and so few white babies being born that, if current trends continue, whites will become extinct. The proportion of the World's population that is (pure) white has plummeted in recent decades, and continues to do so. Whites aren't 'dominant' any more, they suffer as a result of 'positive discrimination'/'affirmative action' in many countries. Many whites do not want to be a minority in their own lands. In many parts of the white world, including England, most muggings are committed by blacks; most mugging victims are white. This situation (being robbed at knifepoint every day), does not provide white children with a future!

[edit] Anarchist 14 words?

The Anarchist Fourteen Words is an Anti-nationalist phrase used by Anti-fascists. The slogan was coined by Tony Blackplait, a member of Vennaskond. It states: We must secure the existence of Earth people and a future for all children. It is often used as a greeting to affirm one's affiliation with Anarchism, and is a parody of the 'Fourteen Words' attributed to White Power. Um, I'm an anarchist and I've never heard this, and I sure have never used it as a greeting to affirm my anarchist beliefs. Is there a source for this? I do think it is funny, and I think this is a clever way to insert a pro-anarchist message in a neo-nazi page, but it should be sourced because I'm doubtful of the validity of this. The Ungovernable Force 05:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I can't find any trace of their usage on the Internet. -Will Beback 06:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, the guy who coined it was apparently Estonian, so perhaps it's an Estonian phrase translated into English for this article. But I think that's a stretch, as it would be strange to make an Estonian pun on an English phrase and end up with the same number of words in both translations. Google searches for ""Tõnu Trubetsky", "Tonu Trubetsky" and "Tony Blackplait" combined with "fourteen words" turn up zilch. I've removed it for the moment, erring on the side of verifiability, and I'll ask the guy who put it in (RobotF [1]) where he heard it. You'd've thought anything used by anarchists would turn up at least once on Google. --Malthusian (talk) 09:18, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

The Anarchist 14 Words are in his book "The Anarchists".--Munn 11:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I've referenced the paragraph. --Malthusian (talk) 12:22, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stub?

Since we have the phrase's definition, its inventor, its origin and two examples of use, is this really still a stub? --Malthusian (talk) 09:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Now that we've got the Anarchist section back in, referenced, I'm removing the stub template. I'm not overly familiar with stub usage but it does seem that we've expanded this beyond that point. --Malthusian (talk) 12:22, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ADL

Why is ADL link here? They are not an authority on anything. They are just promoting racial interests of their own group.

Worse, it's completely biased. They don't seem like a credible, factual, information giver anyway. Their website reads like a tabloid.

[edit] I'm not a Nazi but

OK this page needs a rewrite to look less shitty and povved. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.97.211.4 (talk) 01:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The Order was a Supremacist group?

Was it a supremacist group or a nationalist group? MichiganLake (talk) 23:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

• See The Order (group). Spylab (talk) 14:23, 25 January 2008 (UTC)