User talk:Formation

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's very interesting to note how this author editted the following page:

[Internet Explorer box model bug]

He is a proponent of the IE box model, and so he rewrote the entire article giving it a pro-IE slant. Granted the previous article had an anti-IE slant, but [the solution is a balanced article].

I hope that the current version is to everyone's liking.

  • Response to 70.20.51.91: I suspect by your recent edits at the page noted above that you are the author of this comment here in my Talk page. It's true I'm a proponent of the IE box model although I use the "content-box" option frequently also. I also admit that I gave the article a decidely pro-IE slant which I did more out of spite towards the ignoramusus who first called the MSIE box model behaviour a "bug" and then carried on with their favourite list of hacks and workarounds (when better solutions are much simpler).

    Having said that, [your alterations are all great] and I agree that it's now a much more balanced article. The only problem is that the title of the page is NOT balanced -- the word "bug" in the title is in itself biased and misleading.

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Keyano.Logo(BlueTransparent)(500x367).gif)

Thanks for uploading Image:Keyano.Logo(BlueTransparent)(500x367).gif. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 05:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits to music

I don't like the removal of most of the music article's lead section. People have been working hard on this article for years, and it's very easy for a whole section to get lost if you remove it and nobody reverts. A lead section for something the size of music should be 3 paragraphs minimum. To cut it down to a couple of lines, making comments like 'silence is sound' (?) is somewhat disrespectful - please talk about major changes like this on the talk page first.

I have restored the lead section to its former condition. If you wish to alter the lead section please make a proposal on the talk page. Thanks. Richard001 01:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Response

The lead section of the Music article was (before [my edit]):

Music is an art form that involves organized sounds. It is expressed in terms of pitch (which includes melody and harmony), rhythm (which includes tempo and meter), and the quality of sound (which includes timbre, articulation, dynamics, and texture). Music may also involve generative forms in time through the construction of patterns and combinations of natural stimuli, principally sound. Music may be used for artistic or aesthetic, communicative, entertainment, or ceremonial purposes. The definition of what constitutes music varies according to culture and social context.

I believe that this paragraph is so entirely misleading and contradictory that it would be more meaningful to delete the entire thing and say nothing at all. Every sentence is verifiably wrong...as follows:

1st sentence: Music is an art form that involves organized sounds.

Music is artistic, I'll give you that. But...I believe that using the word "organized" without clarification is misleading. That word dangerously implies that some person has organized the sounds -- but that implication excludes the possibility that musical events may occur naturally without human intervention.

2nd sentence: It is expressed in terms of pitch (which includes melody and harmony), rhythm (which includes tempo and meter), and the quality of sound (which includes timbre, articulation, dynamics, and texture).

The only musical elements are sound and time -- in a single word, that means "rhythm". Why?

  1. First, because rhythms are simply gestures in the time dimension. So both 'sound' and 'time' go without saying.
  2. Pitch is rhythm. Any vibration played with a frequency greater than (approximately) 40 hertz will be perceived by the human ear as a "pitched" sound. Play a snare drum 440 times per second and you'll have a noisy 'A' above middle 'C'.
  3. Melody and harmony? Really? Is that to say that a snare drum solo is not music? To quote a rhetorical question by John Cage, "Is music music? Or is music Beethoven?" As well, both melody and harmony are illusions created by "pitched" sounds...and in the previous note I've explained (albeit briefly) that pitch is merely rhythm. So...by transitive properties both melody and harmony are actually just rhythms.
  4. Quality of sound, articulations, dynamics, textures...these are not the terms by which music is expressed. The quality of sound is irrelevant (when saying that music "is expressed in terms of..."), so too is the dynamic, the texture, and the articulation. These phenomenon are by-products of sound; not the defining elements of music.

3rd sentence: Music may also involve generative forms in time through the construction of patterns and combinations of natural stimuli, principally sound.

What does that mean exactly? Anybody who once thought they new what music is certainly won't have clue after reading that sentence. Music 'IS' a form generated by sounds in time -- the word "may" is not necessary; sound 'IS' natural; and patterns have nothing to do with anything -- unless you're really tied to Beethoven's definition. Principally sound? That phrase suggests that there may be an alternative natural stimuli which can be constructed in time to produce music? The word "principally" can be discarded. Apart from the wordiness of the sentence, it's on the right track. I'd suggest it could be rewritten as, "Music involves 'sound' in 'time'". Period.

4th sentence: Music may be used for artistic or aesthetic, communicative, entertainment, or ceremonial purposes.

Again, the word "may" isn't necessary. I'd suggest "Music 'is' used for artistic ... etc."

5th sentence: The definition of what constitutes music varies according to culture and social context.

Yep! And the context of this article currently published is obviously bent towards the Anglo-Euro-American social context. My suggestion is that the definition should be approached scientifically. What, exactly, is music? It is "space-time" plus "sound" -- that's it. Any other suggestion is mere point of view.

My last note here is a response to your suggestion that my saying "silence is sound" is disrespectful. Well, let me break it to you: silence is a sound.

  • That's not disrepectful, it's rational. Have you ever heard silence? I mean, have you ever heard nothing? I mean, have you ever 'not' heard something?
  • Your human ear will never exist in a perfect vacuum, therefore your human ear will never percieve absolute silence.
  • Where there is no sound, there is also no time. (i.e. no music...just simultaneous nothingness and infinity.)
  • Therefore, all things considered, it's reasonable to conclude that silence must be a sound. Only in concept, in the wishfullness of our thinking, is silence actually devoid of sounds. But in music, in reality, there's no such thing as silence.

Welcome!

Hello, Formation, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! Hyacinth (talk) 01:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC)