Talk:Former toponyms of places in Kavala Prefecture
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[edit] one biased and nationalist source was used
refer to the talk page of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Slavic_toponyms_for_Greek_places Seleukosa (talk) 19:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
How on Earth the name of my village has a "former" bulgarian name since the only time that we had bulgarians was during the WWII occupation of Greece from Germans and their puppies, the bulgarians? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.16.181.75 (talk) 12:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Can you please provide more information. We will be more thatn huppy to corect any mistakes! Which vilage do you mean? Seleukosa (talk) 11:42, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
My village is Νικήσιανη. We never had any bulgarians and this provocation by the Bulgarian of Skopjie is unacceptable! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.140.116.92 (talk) 11:53, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
I think that it is important to not forget the past and therefore I would like to see whatever information is present in this entry to be preserved. Nevertheless, in its present form the article is both confusing and misleading.
First it notes (correctly) that there was an effort by the Greek Government to rename villages so thatTurkish and/or Slavic names would no longer be used. Then it follows with a list of villages giving their Slavic and Greek names. Even when the content is technically accurate, the information conveyed to the casual reader is not. Let me explain by examples:
1) Slavic name Bel Pesok versus Aspri Ammos. Both names mean white sand. The text does not tell us what (if any) the original name was or if both were used concurrently when the area was under the Ottoman rule.
2) Badem Chiflik (or Bademli Chiflik) versus Amygdaleonas. Badem chifkik and Bademli Chiflik are Turkish names that literally mean the almond farm. Amygdaleonas means exactly the same in Greek (katharevousa). In what way was the name Badem chiflik Slavic? At the very best the Slavic population of the area had accepted and used the Turkish name and, possibly, wrote it in some language using the Cyrillic alphabet. But since the Turkish name and the Greek name have the same meaning, we do not know which name predates which. Maybe Badem chifkik was at some time known through the (Greek) demotike equivalent of Amygdaleonas.
3) Zhigos, Zigosh versus Zygos. The name has an unmistakable meaning in Greek. The Slavic name appears to be the transcription of the Greek name into a different alphabet. If so, in what way was the name Slavic and in what way it was changed? By being written in the Greek alphabet?
4) Paljo Chiflik, Star Chiflik versus Palaion Tsiflikion. Paljo (demotike) or Palaion (katharevousa) mean old in Greek. Star=old in Slavic. Chiflik=farm in Turkish. All three names mean Old farm. But the use of both Paljo and Star in the Slavic names implies that Paljo chiflik probably predates the Star chiflik. If so, in what way is the change from Demotike (Paljo Chiflik) to katharevousa (Palaion Tsiflikion) relevant?
5) Vlakhika versus Neo Sirako. The original name (the place of the Vlachs) is Greek and the village was later renamed. In what way was Vlakhika a Slavic name?
6) Tuzla versus Touzla. Here is another example of transcription. The names are phonetically identical and both derived from the Turkish Tuzla= saltpan, salt mine. Tuz in Turkish means salt and in Turkey there are 13 Tuzlas as well as quite a few village/city names in which Tuzla is a recognizable component. In what way is the “Greek Tuzla” a change of name? Because the sound is transcribed through the Greek alphabet rather than the Arabic in use by the Ottomans when they lost control of the area?
7) Arapli versus Eklekton, Araplion. The Arapli is Turkish and a rough translation would be the village of the Arab(s). Eklekton is a renaming but Araplion is essentially the same name augmented with an ending (on, an ending favored by katharevousa) that makes it sound official. I suspect that it is the handiwork of some not fully informed bureaucrat. Whatever may have happened, in what sense is Arapli Slavic and the transformation of Arapli to Araplion a change of name?
It is not my contention that all the data are worthless and that every entry is in one way or another incorrect. On the other hand I did not list each and every error I believe to have identified.
In my opinion, the list as it is betrays laziness, ignorance, bad faith, or a combination thereof. Those informed (or even marginally informed such as I) will know better than take it seriously. But those thoroughly unfamiliar with the history of the area, with the claims and counterclaims, and with the languages in question (Slavic/ Greek/ Turkish), risk being misinformed.
In short, by maintaining the list as it is you are performing a disservice to your readers and to your reputation.
Note: Up to 1981 the Greek language had two distinct forms which crudely, but adequately for the purpose of clarifying their use above, I would define as:
1) Demotike: The language as spoken in the street. 2) Katharevousa that sought, as much as it could, to imitate the structures of ancient Greek and to return to the vocabulary of same. It was the official language and the language in which scientific texts would be written.
After 1981 a somewhat modified Demotike became the official language
Dolapci (talk) 23:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The existence of this topic is misleading and unacceptable. E.g. Touzla is a fairly-recently built resort unrelated to any Tuzla in Asia Minor. How does it have a Bulgarian name as it didn't even exist in 1913 or 1941-1944? If this topic does not exist for extremely irredentist propaganda purposes, why not also create a similar article for Greek names of US, British, Chinese and Outer Mongolian cities? --Irlandos (talk) 12:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
