Talk:Folk rock

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Contents

[edit] Change article name

The proper way to spell "folk rock" is without the hypen. This is the only place where I have seen it spelled "folk-rock." I propose that we rename the article. KitHutch 01:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Agree - just some of the links like electric folk and folk music are without the dash. To be consistent, the word should be "folk rock"; therefore, move the article and rename the usage of the word. --Supercoop 22:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other discussion

Hmm. None of that list are what I would classify as "Folk-rock" and the list excludes Fairport Convention who are argued to have created the genre with Liege and Lief -- SGBailey 22:05 Jan 12, 2003 (UTC)

Feel free to edit as much as you like. Take off what you don't like, or better yet, explain why those don't fit right. What's Paul Simon classified as? or Joni Mitchell? I would have a hard time saying that these artists didn't make at least a couple of folk-rock tunes, but sure, to classify their whole career as folk-rock is more difficult. A better definition of the term is in order.
- Tubby

Why is there a hyphen in the name? -- Zoe

Cos it isn't folk and it isn't rock but is a combination of the two and is a standard way of writing it. ? -- 217.24.129.50 11:51 Jan 13, 2003 (UTC)

Shrug. That's just the way it came out. Feel free to change/move it. -Tubby 23:44 Jan 16, 2003 (UTC)

It is very poor linking style for the article to read:

See Turkish Music Genres and Artists for detail.

...if there are no details in Turkish Music Genres and Artists. I'm going to wait and see what happens to that link, even though it is presently going to waste the time of anyone looking for information on "Turkish folk-rock."

Update: somebody has wikified the destination as " Turkish music ". The present link will be redirected there. Two16

O'88, with all respect, The Turtles are kinda of grey area. Yes, I agree with your comment, and yes, they did all sorts of folk-rock songs (i.e.: Let Me Be, House of Pain, All My Problems) BUT, they had very diverse influences, and to catagorize them as a folk-rock is somewhat limiting in describing The Turtles. After all, they started as a surf band, worked with Ray Davies and sort of with Frank Zappa, and had pop hits (She'd Rather Be With Me, Happy Together). Just my small amount in your local currency -- Two Halves

But they broke out nationally doing Dylan. Their diversity is why I added the introductory paragraph before the list. What about The Animals? Ortolan88
As I said before, it's a grey area where one could side with one shade as well as the other. I think that this just happened!!! (BTW, with which Dylan song? I can't remember the one you are talking about.) As for The Animals, well we all know that The House of the Rising Sun is a folk song. I'm not familiar enough with their non-top 40 songs really to make this distinction. Someone will make it, however... Two Halves
    • please don't let me be, misunderstood danana

"It Ain't Me Babe" was a Dylan tune that was one of the Turtles' early big hits, if not their first. soulpatch

Just for the record, allmusic categorizes the Lovin' Spoonful in this category. I just removed the Turkish guy because he may have mixed Turkish folk and rock, but the term as used and described in the article refers to Appalachian folk (esp. bluegrass) being mixed with rock. Unless he actually mixed this kind of folk with rock and roll, he doesn't belong on the list. Of course, a discussion of other kinds of folk being fused with rock would be interesting, both here and on a separate article -- when that occurs, he should be re-added appropriately. Tokerboy
Too elaborate, folk music refers to a large category of musics; virtually all popular music today fuses rock and roll with some kind of folk music. Even the hardest death metal is a whole lot of rock and a tiny bit of blues (blues is folk). Tokerboy
"All music is folk music. I ain't never heard a horse sing a song." Louis Armstrong. Ortolan88

[edit] Undoing the laundry list

I'm not sure the laundry list of groups was useful as it stood, so I've decided to be bold. The Pogues have not got much in common with Renaissance, to put it mildly. I think we need to make some distinctions here. I've plunged in to try to make them, though I'm sure it will not be without controversy. Some of these bands I don't know enough to really classify, can someone else try to follow through? Also:

  • Does Gordon Lightfoot really belong here at all? I hear almost no rock elements in his music.
  • Similarly, are there enough folk element in the Corrs to qualify? If them, why not the Cranberries? or even Sinéad O'Connor? Anyway, I've tried to be charitable in where I've placed them.

Anyway, the restructure I think provides a better basis for talking about parallel developments outside of North America and the British Isles, although doubtless some of these should be little more than single mentions or see-alsos. -- Jmabel | Talk 09:01, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I've decided to be even bolder. I've done a complete rewrite (and major expansion) of the narrative portion of the article, giving it a structure I believe we can build on. I think the lead and the section about the roots of folk-rock are pretty solid.

My suggestion for further developing the article is that we abandon having a long list of artists at the bottom of the article. Instead, we should try to work them into the narrative as appropriate and that any lists go at the end of the section to which they are relevant; at worst, a list at the end can be a catch-all for blendings of folk and rock that don't fit our narrative.

I know I came into this out of nowhere and did a major edit; I was working on Fairport Convention, stumbled across this, and felt that there was a lot more I could do to rapidly improve this article than that one. Anyway, I will now stay mostly out of editing this one for a couple of days to give others time to react/respond. -- Jmabel | Talk 16:12, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Notable or not?

Would someone else take a look at the recent additions by User:66.185.85.81? To the best of my knowledge, neither Nathan Bishop nor Celtae are particularly prominent, influential, or otherwise meriting discussion in this article, but I'll admit to not being expert on contemporary Canadian folk-rock. (I'm not Canada-bashing here: Spirit of the West certainly merit mention.) -- Jmabel | Talk 22:33, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gundula Krause

Is Gundula Krause well-enough known to merit mention in this article? I will readily admit to never before having heard of her. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:41, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, in Germany she´s wellknown under the name "göttliche Teufelsgeigerin" (divine fiddler of devil). Audax 12:11, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Renaissance folk-rock

I'm toying with the idea of adding "Renaissance Folk-rock" to cover Gryphon, Amazing Blondel, Blackmore's Night and Phillip Pickett's "The Bones of All Men". Maybe some of John Renbourn would fit in, but I'm not sure, since the rock element is negligible. Would you want it appended to this article, or put somewhere separate? Would you prefer the name "Medieval Folk-rock", or some other title?

A separate article would be fine, but there should be a summary here, written in Wikipedia:Summary style. The title should be whatever is most common; if there is no terribly common name, then just pick whatever seems most reasonable and make redirects from other titles. Tuf-Kat 20:53, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
As far as I know, there is no particularly common name for this subgenre, but yes, there is a reasonably distinct style here. Renaissance folk-rock seems like an appropriate article title. I agree with Tuf-Kat about a short summary here, linking to an article elsewhere. I think the article should include Renbourne: it's true that the rock element was minor, but conversely it's almost impossible to imagine anyone having taken his approach to this music before the rock era, and he performed in rock venues. Similarly to Renbourne in that respect, you might also mention City Waites.
It would be nice to find an authority to quote on why Renbourne and City Waites are distinct from straight folk revivalism or "early music" consorts. I think the case is pretty clear, but not so self-evident as to lack any need for citation. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:52, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Is there any recognition of the title Renaissance folk-rock or Medieval Folk-rock outside this discussion? Blackmores Night are widely known as a folk rock band. --Paulw99 13:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

There is a big growth of artists that are including Mediaeval/Renaissance stylings to their music that are coined as "Mittelalter Rock" in Europe, and "Neo-Medieval" in the US. These artists span from traditional to incorporating the formentioned stylings to Rock, Metal, and Gothic/Darkwave music. Although it is generally agreed upon that this form of "Neo-Medieval" Metal differs from the Folk Metal that associates itself within the Black Metal genre. JanderVK (talk) 03:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Steeleye Span

Kalimac, with reference to your edits on Steeleye Span: do you know their earliest albums (especially Hark! The Village Wait)? I don't have it handy as I'm writing, but I don't believe there is anything electric on that album. I'll check if you think I'm wrong. -- Jmabel | Talk June 29, 2005 02:12 (UTC)

Jmabel, I'm sorry I never noticed your query earlier, but the early Steeleye was amplified up the wazoo, infamous for their very loud noise. Even if one queries whether amplified music is electric music, Ashley Hutchings always played electric bass, and the first album credits also list an electric dulcimer and electric guitar played by Tim Hart and Terry Woods. Kalimac 19:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

My record collection is in storage at the moment, so I can't check credits and dates, but what are you counting as their "first album"? Hark! The Village Wait? Or something else? - Jmabel | Talk 04:09, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Jmabel, yes, the first album is Hark! The Village Wait. It is both amplified and electric. Kalimac 25 June 2006

[edit] Possibly inappropriate illustration

I see someone has added the jacket of The Times They Are A-Changin' as the lead illustration in the article. This seems wrong to me: the album isn't folk-rock at all, it's a singer-songwriter album solidly in the folk revivalist tradition, and almost devoid of rock influence. Many songs on the album were covered by folk-rock artists, but the album itself is not folk-rock. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:14, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kazuki Tomokawa?

Judging by the article on Kazuki Tomokawa, he doesn't belong here. If anyone from Japan deserves to be mentioned, I would think it was Osamu Kitajima for his work around the time of Benzaiten. But I don't know Japanese music all that well, and won't do this unilaterally: would someone else please weigh in? -- Jmabel | Talk 19:01, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] poor choice for album...

I don't think Blonde on Blonde should be used to exemplify folk rock. Essentially, it's a rock album. I would choose something like Pentangle's Sweet Child....Image:Sweetchild.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michaelmross (talk • contribs) 14 Nov 2005.

Concur. But that image needs an image copyright tag or it is liable simply to be deleted. Once you deal with the appropriate copyright notices, I would gladly agree to the substitution.
A Byrds album in addition would also be good; betwen those two we would cover the two most prominent streams of folk-rock. Any objections? -- Jmabel | Talk 05:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Simon and Garfunkel

What about Simon and Garfunkel? Why are they not listed on this page?

--Seficity-- 27 Feb 2006

[edit] Dubious recent edits

I just compared the current state of the article to one from 40 days ago; I can't say it's encouraging:

  • "…Fairport Convention" ==> "…Fairport Convention(Richard Thompson)"
    • Why? Nothing against Thompson, I'm a fan and all, but Fairport in its heyday wasn't any more his band than, say, Sandy Denny's. And Ian Matthews, Simon Nicol, Ashley Hutchings, and Martin Lamble were no slouches either. Why single out one member? FWIW, Thompson's name was also added to two other lists in the article. Thompson certainly deserves a mention in the article, but three?
  • "…veteran Breton Celtic harp soloist Alan Stivell" ==> "…veteran French Celtic harp soloist Alan Stivell".
    • Ridiculous. What matters in respect of musical tradition isn't his citizenship, it's his ethnic cultural background. (BTW, remarkable that we have no article on Celtic harp.)
  • + "Another folk-rock band is Gåte from Norway who combines Norwegian folk songs(stev) and rock."
    • Might be fine. I don't know them, can someone weigh in on why they are significant enough to be mentioned? Nothing in our article on them suggests that they are particularly notable. Stev lacks an article.
  • + a mention of Blaggards
    • A not terribly notable band from Texas whose entire recorded output appears to be one song on a compilation album.
  • + "The best radio source for this style of Celtic Rock is through the weekly streaming radio show with the largest international audience of this genre at Paddy Rock Radio."
    • Who says it's the best? Barring a citation to that effect, at most this belongs as an external link.

Unless someone weighs in with a good defense of some of these, I'm pretty inclined to revert/delete the lot (except a mention or two of Richard Thompson). - Jmabel | Talk 06:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

3 weeks, no answer. I've dropped the spare mention of Thompson, reworded the Stivell remark so that both Breton and French are mentioned, dropped the Blaggards, and demoted Paddy Rock Radio to an external link. - Jmabel | Talk 20:51, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nick Drake

"Nick Drake's music has had a large impact on modern folk-rock." Has it? I respect his work enormously, and he certainly has had an influence on a certain type of folk-influenced popular music, but is it really folk-rock? -- Jmabel | Talk 23:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category

Should there be a Category for folk rock musical groups? Nareek 18:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I would think so. - Jmabel | Talk 00:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Would "Category:Folk rock musical groups" be the proper phrasing? Nareek 13:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Sounds sane to me, but I'm not expert on the category system. If you get it wrong, someone will bring it to WP:CFD, come up with a better name, and fix it with a bot, so don't get too hung up on naming exactly right. - Jmabel | Talk 22:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Whoops--there's already a Category:Folk rock groups. Maybe that category should have its name changed, to fit in better with the other musical categories, but for now I'm trying to speedy-delete the new category I made. Nareek 03:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Folk rock artists

i've moved most of this section to list of folk rock artists. If it's better, please delete this section (or the newly amde article).--sin-man 07:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It would've been better if this was done striaght away. I've merged the two lists (hopefully correctly), and removed the one in this article -- lists don't belong in an article
-- TimNelson 12:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Italian section

I'm glad there's an Italian section, but its translator seem to have had a little trouble with English. I've corrected it where possible, but there are a few that will need attention from someone else:

  • "flag of Sardinia in the world" -- I can think of a few meanings for this. If anyone knows what it means, please disambiguate.
  • If anyone knows what "rinascimental" means, can they please either add an explanation or replace it with something a bit more common?
  • "A record that was out of market rules" -- not sure what this means either

-- TimNelson 05:28, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additions

I think there should be additions to the page to include brief paragraphs for the Neofolk (Apocalyptic, Folk Noir etc.) and Folk Metal genres. JanderVK (talk) 03:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "s. Earthy "unplugged" musically simplified sound of the music and common presentation reflected the genre's connection to a more earthy look at society's state of affairs."

i am unable to make any sense of the preceding —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 21:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Accoustic Rock?

Why Accoustic Rock redirects to Folk Rock? They are not the same thing and if you're looking for information about Accoustic Rock this article will not be usefull for you. I think that this redirection should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.7.20.163 (talk) 02:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, find a writer who makes the distinction and post it here. It must be sourced. Meanwhile, I'd be interested to hear what you think the difference is? Byrds vs Fairport Convention? Guns n Roses vs Steeleye Span? Up to you. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 02:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Byrds-MrTambourineMan.jpg

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --01:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)