Talk:Folk hero

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Folk hero article.
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[edit] Current folk heros

I have removed the following entries from the article:

All of these entries are public figures who are documented in the international media. This makes them unlikely to be "folk heros" in the sense of someone who is likely to become the subject of folk tales and to achieve mythic qualities similar to the other folk heros mentioned in the article.

The individuals listed above may be popular "heroes of the people" but that is, IMO, another category that is quite different from the concept being presented in this article.

--Richard 18:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why Marvin Heemeyer should be mentioned in this article

I can see arguments for and against including Marvin Heemeyer in this article. The major argument in favor of inclusion is the fact that so many people seem to want to recast his Wikipedia article into a hagiography of him as a popular hero. The major argument against inclusion is the question of whether his status as a folk hero has been documented outside of the Internet. Here is a mention of his "Internet folk hero" status in the Boston Globe. [1]. Note the sentence: "Websites sprung up celebrating Heemeyer as a folk hero and patriot." Nonetheless, the question is whether Heemeyer has made enough of an impression on the popular consciousness to warrant an entry here. I'm open to debating this question.

--Richard 19:01, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem is not so much him being a "folk hero" but that it then starts to open up list to anybody putting in all kinds of people. Already this is starting to look like getting back to Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of heroes. At the very least I think that "...current international media." is perhaps a bit much. Was he described that way in countries outside of the US? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Re: CambridgeBayWeather's comment about this looking like "List of heroes". I agree. It's more justifiable to have this article than an article which is a List of heroes but this article could get to be problematic. As I was adding entries to the article this morning, I started thinking... "You know, this really ought to be a category." Unfortunately, I've never created a category before so I want to read up on it before giving it a try. If anybody knows how to do it, go ahead and get it started.
If we get the category started, then we can drop the list of folk heroes from this article and just keep the intro which is the part that is worth keeping.
Re: Marvin Heemeyer. This is the problem with dealing with a "current" folk hero. Clearly he's a controversial figure and, at best, a folk hero among a limited number of people. Nonetheless, he fits many of the characteristics of a folk hero. I would lose the "international media" part in the intro to the section.
--Richard 00:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
As an aside why is Calamity Jane in the fictional section? She has a bithdate, deathdate and a picture in her article. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Good point. I fixed this. I had contemplated adding Wyatt Earp, Wild Bill Hickock, Jesse James and Billy the Kid but was concerned whether these would qualify as "folk heroes" or something else. I would like to hear some opinions about whether or not the list part of this article should be converted into a category.

I've removed Heemeyer. He is repeatedly being pushed as a "folk hero" on various hero-related Wikipedia articles. However, it's not Wikipedia's place to make such a call, and this will really need the test of time to see if he is ever really considered a folk hero. Thoughts? --Ckatzchatspy 00:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I endorse the removal. --Richard 06:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Propose converting the list part of this article into a category

At the very least, we could have this article and one or more lists (e.g. List of American folk heroes. Alternatively, we could have one or more categories. In any event, the intro paragraphs would stay here as a definition of what a folk hero is but it seems to me that there are better ways in Wikipedia to build lists. --Richard 19:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Johnny Appleseed and John Henry

This article lists Johnny Appleseed and John Henry as "folk heroes known to be fictional". Johnny Appleseed was a real man who had become a legend even before he died. His real name was John Chapman. Although it's not as clear with John Henry, I've found research arguing that he was also a real person and that his race with the steam drill may actually have taken place

Perhaps they should be moved to the first category? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ksher712 (talk • contribs) 09:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Great article

This is a great article! I'm very fond with it! -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 07:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I'm not sure why there is a need for a seperate article on US folk heroes. Are they not good enough for the main article? The lists are duplicated in places and could easily be merged into this. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:Pier Gerlofs Donia-statue, Frisia.jpg
Pier Gerlofs Donia, a great Frisian warlord and folk hero.

[edit] Why not Jack Sheppard?

From what I can tell, Jack Sheppard was an 18th century British burglar who became famous for jailbreaks and wildly popularized with the poorer classes, becoming both a notorious public figure and a folk hero at the same time. Of course, the actions of his nemesis, criminal overlord and fraudulent "Thief-Taker General" Jonathan Wild, made Jack seem like a martyr because he was non-violent and had a slight build, a pale, gentle face and an innocent smile. Why not add Jack to the "Folk Hero" list? --Angeldeb82 21:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Illustration

I've illustrated the page with the image shown here, depicting a large statue of the Frisian folk hero, giant and warrior Grutte Pier (Pier Gerlofs Donia). -The Bold Guy- 11:06, 10 August 2007 (UTC)