Talk:FN Five-seven

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Please add encyclopedia content, so that this is more than a catalo entry or ad. Thank you. Wetman 22:32, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I attempted to add some more content, but you must understand the 5-7 is a fairly new weapon and has not been proven "on the streets". There's certainly not as much information available on its performance, design, history, etc. as there is on, say, the M16. Tronno 17:39, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Can anyone explain to me exactly what the strangely shaped trigger guard is for? I suppose one could use it with two fingers, but I just can't figure it out. Also, isn't "plastics and polymers" redundant? Lostchicken 23:29, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Added info for unique trigger guard shape. (I have read on FN's old site it was for gloved use, and have seen one or two 'promo' shots showing gloved use.) Yes "plastics and polymers" is redundant and should be changed. The Deviant 20:53, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Added external link and Variants info 2 Added Sentence 3 This Article Already Needs a Rewrite 4 Templatize? 5 Battlestar Galactica?!? 6 Five-SeveN and the 5.7x28 cartridge 7 Five-Seven production year 8 Five-seveN Image 9 Requested move 9.1 Survey 9.1.1 Survey - in support of the move 9.1.2 Survey - in opposition to the move 9.2 Discussion 10 Controversy section 11 New Variants

[edit] Added external link and Variants info

I've added an external link on the Five-seveN page (also the FN P90 and 5.7x28mm pages) to point to my blog, where I have been collecting information about the 5.7x28mm weapons system. My hope is to distill/sanitize much of the information that I've been blogging into the Wikipedia entries.

I also added information on the IOM and USG models and a parenthetical note that 10 round magazines are available.

Esteves 21:46, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Speaking of external links, maybe someone could fish up a link to the Gemtech suppressor and LDI laser "made specifically for the Five-seveN", because I've been able to find any information of either (not that I've thouroughly researched it).--Seven11groove 20:23, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added Sentence

I added "(written Five-seveN to accent Fabrique Nationale's initials)"

The Five-seveN capitialization format is non-standard. The firearm is simply, the Five-Seven.

Wrong. The pistol IS called "Five-seveN." Try checking FN's websites.

This seems to be correct [1], is it worth moving the page to FN Five-seveN? Riddley 00:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This Article Already Needs a Rewrite

There is too much information in the first few paragraphs with regard to the cartridge (already discussed in the 5.7x28mm page) that has little to do with the handgun itself.

There are also too many "this gun can do this" references, again, which should be (and probably are) in the 5.7x28mm page, as the handgun itself can not do these things, the cartridge, however, can (certain ones, at that).

Anyone have a comment?

Your complaint should be lodged with User:67.64.40.86, who wrote over everyone's contributions on August 11. I vote for a total revert, while keeping in mind that he did add a few bits of new information. Anyone else? Tronno 14:29, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Ah. I see now. Maybe some of that could go to the round's (5.7x28mm) page, and the corrected info stick around on this one... I dunno. The Deviant 20:49, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

---I am the user who wrote over the previous description. I felt the previous overview was too short, so I pasted in a lengthened description containing some more new info. The 5.7x28mm has everything to do with the handgun itself. The entire design and characteristics of the pistol revolve around the rifle-like ammunition. I included the info on what the Five-seveN will do, because it is necessary to distance the capabilities of the 5.7 ammo when fired out of the Five-seveN from the capabilities of the ammo when fired out of the P90. That can only be done if you give unique figures in both the Five-seveN and P90 sections. I also edited the contents of the Variants section as much of it was entirely incorrect. (there has never been a DA version of the Tactical, IOM, or USG versions.)

I understand your motivation, but the next time you feel information in an article is missing or incorrect, edit it selectively instead of doing a complete rewrite out of the blue (rewrites are also discussed on the talk page well in advance). Moreover, I agree with The Deviant that you went off-topic on the ammunition - we already have a separate page for that. Tronno 01:25, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

--Sorry about the rewrite. Feel free to edit or remove any unnecessary references to the ammunition.

I take issue to the comment about the bullet entering and then tumbling, end over end. I'm sorry I don't remember the source but I remember reading recently that there was a controversy over that tumbling concept, and it was studied and determined that the bullet does not tumble. It in fact does one half turn after impact, causing the heavier trailing end of the bullet to end up in front due to the momentum. It didn't tumble repeatedly.

The image needs to be updated as well. That's the first generation model, and the newer ones don't have that bulb on the front of the trigger guard. 206.103.66.134 06:27, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

All are still Five seveNs, regardless of "generation", however, I think a pic of each of the generations would be a good idea. The Deviant 15:17, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Templatize?

Anyone have an objection to me templatizing the insert on the page to the wikipedia firearm template? The Deviant 15:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Battlestar Galactica?!?

I don't think I've EVER seen a Five-seveN (or a P-90) on BSG... Was the person who put that in there thinking of Stargate-SG1 maybe? It (and it's spin-off, SG:Atlantis) uses the P-90 regularly, and the Five-seveN occasionally. MyrddinEmrys 02:45 March 9, 2006 (EST)

I havent seen every episode of BSG, and it is a sci-fi Channel show (home of SG-1, definate P-90 users.) However, the long arm ive seen used most often is the Beretta_Cx4_Storm Cmschroeder 23:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Originally they used a modified revolver for the Colonial sidearm. But obviously it had only a limited amount of ammo despite appearing to be semi-auto. Later they switched to the Five-SeveN to get some real semi-auto action. The newer pistols can easily recognized by their black grip instead of the wood. They feature in "Home, Part" and very prominently in "Flight of the Phoenix" on the firing range 15:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

See http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/KEW#Small_Arms . --CalculatinAvatar^(C-T) 21:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

They definitely use Five-seveNs in BSG. The newer episodes have more of them. They often have some type of attachment on accessory rail to make it look more ..uh.. futuristic? Just look for ugly pistols, and a closer look will likely reveal a Five-seveN or a disguised Five-seveN (don't get me wrong, I love this pistol, I even own one...it's just not the prettiest thing to look at). -user:Bobbfwed 17:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Five-SeveN and the 5.7x28 cartridge

The handgun known as the "Five-SeveN" was, indeed, designed around the 5.7x28mm cartridge. Unlike weapons like the Glock or a Mac the Five-SeveN was never conceived of outside of the context of the round that it fires. It was made to compliment the P90 'PDW' and to be marketed to security forces to compliment the purchase of the P90. In other words, FN created the Five-SeveN entirely because they wanted to sell the P90 to NATO as the PDW of choice. Obtaining that contract was the reason they created the handgun, and the gun is very different from other handguns because of that, as opposed to having peculiar characteristics for the sake of being innovative.

IMHO you cannot discuss the gun without first discussing the 5.7x28mm cartridge.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by W3bj3d1 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 2006 August 8 (UTC)

[edit] Five-Seven production year

Would it be safe to say if the Five-Seven was made back in 2000? 70.68.143.168 03:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Five-seveN Image

I added the latest image to the article, and we have had some controversy on whether it is a USG or IOM model. I bought the gun about 2 months ago (so I assumed I was getting the USG model), but the box it came in had IOM as part of the SKU (or some other series of numbers and letters), and the manual which was in the box also said it was a manual for the IOM model. Is there anyway to prove what model it is? Bobbfwed 16:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The image used at the top of the page is of the USG model, not the IOM model. You can tell by the design of the trigger guard and the hand grips. As you can see on the official FNH USA site (see the link at the bottom of the wiki page), the USG is identical to the one shown in the picture shown here. Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge, the IOM is not available to civilians — only the USG is. JGoodman 22:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

How about some description of how the thing works? I agree that a lot of the terminal ballistics info should be on the cartridge page, the gun is the means of delivery, so lets have something about it, for example a description of the delay system? someting about the trigger and striker mechanism? how about some pretty pictures of the parts? by all means stick something over the serial numbers for anonymity's sake

[edit] Controversy section

Its unfortunate that the words "cop killer" have made it on this page, when in fact the phrase itself is a lie. There is not certain weapons that kill police officers, unfortunately they are just as vulnerable as the rest of us. I was thinking of adding this to the end of the controversy section:

"The term "cop-killer" was coined by anti gun enthusiasts in an attempt to demonize certain weapons and ammunition. Armor piercing is the correct term for most of these weapons. Unfortunately, just like any human, a cop can be killed by a .22 caliber hand gun (when shot in a vulnerable area) which is considered the weakest of the widely distributed low power guns."

I can back all of that up with references but I was concerned about editors thinking it was all opinion, so I posted it here first. Viperix 22:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The first line of the overview is bogus, it could actually be the subject of a whole essay discussing whether any handgun cartridge is adequate for stopping an armed assailant at reasonable range. Massad Ayoob (firearms instructure, expert witness, author and cop) writes that a man bringing a handgun to a fight should always consider himself underarmed. Handguns come in many many calibers and none can be considered typical. Many of those won't reliably stop anyone or anything. Chann94501 06:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

This entire section appears to be a political statement about the nature of "cop killer" ammunition, and is lacking in sources for several important claims, particularly that the Five-seven has not been "used in any recorded crime". Objective presentation of controversial information requires both sides of a debate, properly sourced, and treated with neutrality (See: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view). Not being an expert on this firearm, I won't attempt to re-write this section, but I'm highly skeptical of some of the unsourced statements and frankly they come off as biased, which is not in keeping with the purpose of Wikipedia. I'm not arguing the truth of any particular statement or suggesting that the author is incorrect, merely advocating for a more objective article. Additionally, parts of this section aren't specific to the Five-seven firearm at all; perhaps presentation of the larger debate over armor-piercing bullets more properly belongs within the Armor-piercing article; it would probably attract more attention there from knowledgeable users on all sides of the debate and thus give us a richer understanding of the different points of view (and hopefully better sourcing too). -- Daqron 19:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Tagged as NPOV and with a few {{fact}}s. If the AP ammo isn't available to the public, why is it a "cop killer" weapon? I agree; the entire section looks POV - I'll add a link to Armor-piercing as a "main article". OSborn^arf 22:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC) - update: I couldn't find a section in armor peircing round about "controversy", if someone can find that, please add a {{see}}-also tag. OSborn^arf 22:36, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

This BBC article mentions the Five-seveN (though not by name), and its increasing popularity in Mexico with drug cartels, and includes this: "Newell says the round has a special nickname in Mexico. "It's called 'mata policias,' or 'cop killer,' " he says." I'm not sure how this factors into this debate, just wanted to point it out. Fogster (talk) 16:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

See WP:GUNS#Criminal use. I would be careful, that article you just cited has a rather glaring error, calling the 5.7 round a "rifle" round. I also question the nickname, though I have no evidence disproving it, just doubts when it comes to the reporting of nicknames by the media. The Five-seven being found in Mexico is true, though.--LWF (talk) 22:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Variants

The FNH USA site includes two new variants, the ODG, which appears to have a greenish handle and the FDE, which has a more tan handle. As astute as these observations are, it would be better encyclopedic information if we could gain insight as to why these new variants have been made, and what (besides the color change) if anything, has been changed. edit: The site has no information to this end, seek other sources of information. LIMEY (talk) 07:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)