Talk:Flyover country

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My girlfriend is from a red state, but its a blue county--is that good enough? CoolGuy 03:22, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] San Francisco?!

How on earth can San Francisco be considered "flyover country"? It's not only in California and probably considered the most liberal/colorful city in America (not to mention a hotbed of Green politics), but it's right on the coast. I guess the author considers only SoCal to be included in non-flyover territory, but I'm taking this out. NTK 04:37, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Ah, this was added by an anon. I'm reverting another poor edit by this anon as well.NTK 04:37, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

San Francisco is definitely not considered part of "flyover country". I deleted both it and a reference to Houston. Listing cities is just asking for a "is/is not" edit war. Leaving Chicago makes sense since it is the 3rd largest city in the U.S. --TruckOttr 07:12, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Attitudes

This article addresses some interesting sociopolitical issues but is disappointingly bare. Here are some thoughts:

• One thing I think you are alluding to but don't explicitly state is that, in recent years, much of the northeast as well as the west coast have become much more liberal/Democratic in their leanings whereas much of the rest of the country has become more conservative/Republican in its leanings. So the "flyover" expression has been used by some to symbolize (in particular because the term is especially popular among socialites in these areas who are often see liberal viewpoints as "fashionable"). It should be noted, however, that this was not really how the term originated.
• I'm not an expert in this but my understanding of how the term really originated is the following (someone who actually is a socialogist should write this up as this is just an uninformed understanding from things I have read here and there). California in a general sense has always had somewhat of an identity crisis. In particular at the time Hollywood was established California was still somewhat seem as a minor desert oasis characterized by tales of cowboys and gold. Hollywood was established by New Yorkers and others from urbanized areas in the middle of what was otherwise a relatively backward set of towns. From the beginning the people "outsiders" in Hollywood tried to differentiate themselves from the rednecks around them (one noteable example of this is the fact that the credits to hold movies often say "Hollywood, USA" instead of "Hollywood, California"). As Hollywood (and the World Wars) brought development to Southern California, the attitude that "We're like the people in New York, not all these other people" spread throughout the region and eventually the state. And with the advent of air travel, the rich and famous in Hollywood could travel between the two centers of movies and broadcast without ever setting foot in the rest of the country. The term "flyover country" came about as a general attitude of "I know I'm somebody because I'm better than them" that developed in California (as exemplified by the "Beverly Hillbillies." If you think about it the whole point of the show is to say that these uncultured people moved from not-California/New-York/New-England to California and could never become cultured because they were from not-California/New-York/New-England).
• The term really did originate as an insult although its precise meaning has varied over time and between users. Although some people may use it not intended it as a slur, to suggest it did not originate this way and is not currently mostly used in that sense would be wrong.
• One interesting thing this topic brings up which could either be expanded upon here or else in another article is the fact that, throughout virtually its entire history California has had an identity crisis. First it started with the fact that the state was so far removed from the other states that it was difficult to even establish an identity outside the state. At the same time, although the original anglophone settlers were largely Texans, the gold rush brought people from all over the country leading to the whole debate over whether the state was Northern or Southern (its admission as a free state did not settle the question internally). And throughout the rest of its history California has struggled with competing images of itself from the Mexican Latino culture to the Western cowboy culture started in its early days to the cultures of the many groups that have come in over the years. Indeed, it was interesting to me when I lived in California to see how often Californians regard other Californianss that live only a few miles away as "foreigners" (exemplified by the fact that there are very large parts of California where "y'all" is a common expression and yet many people in California would consider that an expression that only people in FlyOver Country use). --20:25, 11 August 2006 User:Mcorazao

[edit] Chicago

The fact that Chicago is in fact the third largest metropolis in the U.S. and is in Illinois, which is as blue as a state can get, it should not be included. Chicago was only surpassed in population by L.A. in the 80's. Until then it was always the second largest, thus the nickname 'The Second City'. It also happens to be much more of an actual "city" than L.A. Barack Obama calls Chicago home, and Hillary Clinton was born and raised there, so to include it as "flyover" when you consider that it's usually a derogatory "red state" reference is ludicrous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goveart (talk • contribs) 20:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)