Talk:Flybe

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AVIATION This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Aviation Portal
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

Johnwalton has stated that the ERJ-195s are not being delivered until August 06, yet FlyBe showed them off and flew them at the Paris air show this year. Ben W Bell 18:49, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Okay I see where he is coming from as that is what the press release on the Embraer site states. Odd then that there was one flying at the Paris Air Show in FlyBe colours. Ben W Bell 28 June 2005 06:59 (UTC)
The ERJ-195 aircraft displayed at Paris was an Embraer demonstrator in Embraer's corporate colours. Only a small Flybe logo was added mid-fuselage as a nod to the large order that had just been placed by the airline. --Ayrshire--77 28 June 2005 13:43 (UTC)
is the software problem due to the fact the 195 runs windows???

Contents

[edit] Air France Codeshare

Why do people keep removing the Air France codeshare? To my knowledge it does still codeshare with Air France on flights in and out of Belfast at least. Ben W Bell 08:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

It was removed yet again, yet FlyBE still codeshare with Air France. Do people have something against Air France? Ben W Bell talk 06:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Destinations

I moved the destinations to a seperate page which worked, however it has now gone! What do i do User:Flymeoutofhere

I reverted it to before your edit. If you wish to try again then feel free but I don't really think that they need to be moved. The information isn't really enough to justify a new page and the main article isn't long enough to justify splitting. As for where the information went the most likely explanation is that your previewed the changes but forgot to then save them subsequently, it has happened to us all. Ben W Bell 18:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I just split them again. There are more than enough to create a separate list. Unless an airline just flies to a few places (preferably less than 20), the separate page helps avoid clutter on the main article. Dbinder 19:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incidents

Just to explain why I removed the incidents sub-paragraph. I dont think we should include every incident when an inflight problem caused the aircraft to land safely - they are a lots of them !!. Dont think they are relevant to wikpedia unless they are noteworthy in some way MilborneOne 11:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article title

Why does the article first line say that "the initial letter is shown capitalised due to technical restrictions"? Yet the airline calls itself "Flybe" (with a capital F) throughout its website. I know that their aircraft say "flybe" but the heading of the article is meant to be the name of the company not what's written on the aircraft. So the article's heading of "Flybe" is correct and needs no comment! Am I right? - Adrian Pingstone 16:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

You know, he's right. Looking on their site they only ever use Flybe to refer to themselves. Only their actual logo is all in lowercase. Ben W Bell talk 16:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Companies House has FLYBE LIMITED in uppercase ! (but it has all companies as uppercase). I suspect the lower case flybe is just a marketing name or trademark. MilborneOne 23:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cardiff 'hub' status

Cardiff Airport has been added as a Flybe 'hub' in the infobox of this article, on the basis that their marketing department described it as such in a press release [1]. The problem with this is that Flybe's operation at Cardiff is very small relative to their other UK bases which are not described as 'hubs' in this article, for example Edinburgh, Glasgow, Jersey and Norwich (which are all bigger bases than Cardiff and described as 'Focus Cities'), and Newcastle which is a similar size to the Cardiff base but is not mentioned at all in the infobox. I suggest therefore we stick with the wikipedia definition rather than relying on Flybe 'marketing speak' when listing the hubs on this page and would appreciate the views of other editors on this so we can reach consensus. SempreVolando (talk) 14:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It it doesnt qualify as a "hub" or a "focus city" for the airline, fancy telling me how the Isle of man, and norwich both count as focus cities? Both have a similar level or operation. If it isnt a hub, then it certainly qualifies to be a "focus city". Sure it may be marketing speak, but it comes directly from Flybe themselves. Keep it as a hub. Shazz0r (talk) 16:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
They certainly do not have "a similar level of operation", Isle of Man has 62 Flybe departures a week (more than double what Cardiff has), while Norwich has 40 per week (two thirds more than Cardiff's 24). Cardiff qualifies neither as a Hub or a Focus City on this basis, it doesn't even have a based Flybe aircraft. I have attached a breakdown of Flybe flights by airport below to illustrate this.
Flybe departures / week by UK Airport
Airport Departures

per week

 Article

Status
Manchester 308 Hub
Birmingham 304 Hub
Southampton 282 Hub
Belfast City 235 Hub
Edinburgh 181 Focus City
Glasgow 130 Focus City
London Gatwick 127
Exeter 108
Jersey 106 Focus City
Guernsey 78
Isle of Man 62 Focus City
Newcastle 50
Norwich 40 Focus City
Leeds Bradford 38
Cardiff 24 Hub
Can you see the stupidity of having Cardiff with the other 'hub' airports? It's nearest 'hub' airport in size has 10 times the number of flights. On another note having looked at the number of flights Gatwick and Exeter deserve 'Focus city' status, while Isle of Man and Norwich do not, but the main point is that Cardiff being in the infobox at all is utter nonsense. SempreVolando (talk) 21:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree, if the airline said that then you can hardly disagree Welshleprechaun (talk) 19:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Dont think the airline did say it was a hub - if you read the link it is a Cardiff Airport press release not a Flybe one. MilborneOne (talk) 20:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
In that case I think we can safely discount the remark made by the Cardiff Airport press department; by their logic KLM also have a hub at Cardiff (more flights than Flybe, and also no based aircraft!). SempreVolando (talk) 21:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
You're also ruling out the fact they have several more routes in the next few months. Bringing it up to a service level roughly the same as norwich, and i believe some aircraft are being based here (dont have the citation to hand). So by your logic Cardiff should be counted as a "Focus City". It might not be a flybe press statement. Unfortunatly i cant get to the flybe press release. But this also said the same thing.
Granted I had not taken account of the increased level of Flybe flights at Cardiff this summer, however this will still only increase weekly departures to 64, with no CWL-based aircraft for the summer either. Of course all Flybe bases also see an increase in flights during the summer so Cardiff's position on this list doesn't really change. In essence, Manchester, Birmingham, Southampton and Belfast City should be listed as 'Hub' airports and Edinburgh, Glasgow, London Gatwick and Exeter should be 'Focus City' airports. Alternatively, the Focus City list could be expanded to include Jersey, Isle of Man, Guernsey, Newcastle and Cardiff (Cardiff being the smallest there by flights on the summer figures), but 9 focus cities strikes me as a tad excessive, particuarly when we are getting down to airports with no based aircraft. SempreVolando (talk) 15:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
As far as i'm aware those flight are here to stay, as part of flybe's long term "expansion plan" for Cardiff, especially as they're now going into competition on many of those routes with bmibaby. Shazz0r (talk) 15:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
That's all well and good, but the discussion here is whether Cardiff Airport should be listed as a Focus City of Flybe. This has to be based on the airline's current size of operations (and possibly looking forward to this summer). It's certainly not a hub, and including it as a focus city would require eight other larger airports to be listed as such (using my proposed listing order, by # of flights). So what shall we do? SempreVolando (talk) 15:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Put it as a focus city, because of the proposed expansion that will be happening in the next few months etc. It doesnt mean you "have to" list the others as a hub/focus... Shazz0r (talk) 18:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Y Done I have revised the lists appropriately on the Flybe page. Included all 9 focus cities so that Cardiff (the smallest, even by the summer 2008 schedule) can be included. It doesn't look as bad as I thought it might. SempreVolando (talk) 20:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Largest hub

Southampton has more routes but Manchester has more departures, so which do we go by? Welshleprechaun (talk) 18:56, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Since several routes have only a few flights a week, my opinion would be to stick with the number of weekly departures at each airport. For example, Southampton to Berne (1/wk), Salzburg (1/wk), Palma (3/wk), Faro (3/wk), Nice (4/wk), etc... should not really swing it in Southampton's favour because more routes in this case does not make a larger operation, which I feel should be judged on flights. SempreVolando (talk) 19:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
So say an airline had thirty flights a week to one destination from airport A and one flight to thirty destinations a week from airport B, you'd say airport A is the the largest hub? Anyway I'd have to disagree andd say destinations. Welshleprechaun (talk) 19:09, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Well in that example both airports A and B would have 30 flights per week and therefore be the same size, but say airport B had 1 flight per week to 29 destinations they yes airport A is bigger, because the airline's operation there is larger since there are more flights operating there. Where the aircraft fly to and from is not really relevant in my opinion, how large a presence an airline has at each base should logically follow from the number of flights. We also have the issue of seasonal variation in the number of destinations (at SOU especially, several routes are summer-only), so if using number of destinations then at what time of year do we take the 'snapshot' to agree this? A third alternative is to base the order on the number of passengers handled by the airline at each airport (over the last year, for example). Food for thought! SempreVolando (talk) 19:15, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok here's some number-crunching based on Flybe summer schedules (week commencing 2 June 2008):

Flybe Hub airport departures / week and destinations
Airport Departures

per week

 Destinations
Southampton 382 32
Birmingham 354 23
Manchester 349 19
Belfast City 276 18

So Southampton is the biggest base both by destinations and number of flights this summer, BHX second, MAN third and BHD fourth. I have therefore updated the article to reflect this. SempreVolando (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Good Work Welshleprechaun (talk) 21:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to decide if this comes under the auspices of original research or not. On one hand it's easily gathered information, but on the other you are collating data yourself and proclaiming a largest hub. Canterbury Tail talk 21:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Well if you're unsatisified, feel free to find a direct reference for the largest hub Welshleprechaun (talk) 21:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not unsatisfied, but it's possible someone else will come along and fact tag it. Canterbury Tail talk 21:49, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
It's fair to say this does probably cross the line of WP:OR, however now that there is no discrepancy between number of flights / number of destinations we can surely agree to maintain Welshleprechaun's original basis for hub ranking (by number of destinations - which is very easily gathered [2])? Otherwise, how can one prove the hub listing of any airline on Wikipedia is not based on WP:OR? SempreVolando (talk) 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)