Talk:Florida International University

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Good article Florida International University has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
November 23, 2007 Good article nominee Listed
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Contents

[edit] Rankings

The rankings are a bit misleading. While there is much written under the headline "rankings", (and it is all conveniently) positive, the US news and World Report, 2008 rankings (which is a major and notable source for ranking colleges) listed FIU as a (National Universities, fourth tier) was omitted. Shouldn't this be included in the rankings to make the article more "balanced"? 24.189.35.249 (talk) 21:01, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong link

The link to Jack Gordon in the text of this article is to a page referencing the wrong Jack Gordon. Senator Gordon was older and not involved with LaToya Jackson.

[edit] More Photos Needed

More photos need to be added to this page. The article is very large and there are not enough photos. If anyone has relevant photos of the campus please add them.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Fiu logo2.gif

Image:Fiu logo2.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Location of FIU

The introductory paragraph states that FIU is in Miami. The postal address may use Miami, but that doesn't mean the campus is in the city limits of Miami. It is west of the city limits. Any decent map can verify this. It would be correct to say that FIU is in Miami Dade County. - Marc Averette 22:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It's clearly in Westchester, as described in other Wikipedia article:

Westchester is a census-designated place (CDP) in suburban Miami-Dade County, Florida, United States. The population was 30,271 at the 2000 census.

Westchester is also the name of the unincorporated community that encompasses both the Westchester CDP and the University Park CDP. The approximate limits of the community of Westchester are considered to be SW 8th Street (Tamiami Trail) on the north side, SW 40th Street (Bird Road) on the south side, SW 117th Avenue (bordering the Homestead Extension of Florida's Turnpike) on the west side, and the Palmetto Expressway on the east side.

[edit] Phi Beta Kappa reference

The intro paragraph included the statement "FIU is also the youngest university to be awarded a Phi Beta Kappa chapter by the Phi Beta Kappa Society, the country's oldest and most distinguished academic honor society." I deleted the phrase "and most distinguished", a subjective judgement not directly supported by the main Phi Beta Kappa Society article. Fenwayguy 04:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with your reasoning, however anyone involved in higher education clearly knows that Phi beta Kappa is the standard bearer for academic excellence. I challenge anybody to mention another honor society that can match it, both in terms of prestige and history? 24.189.35.249 (talk) 20:08, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

There are a few really obvious issues that need to be addressed before this can pass GA. For starters, references 4, 5, 21, and 44 (as they are in this version of the article ) are no longer active links. Please try to find existing sources to back up the claims that the old links were referencing.

Also, while I appreciate the bounty of images in the article, Image:Florida International University Seal.png, Image:FIUGoldenPanthers.png, Image:Fiu logo2.gif, and Image:Panther rage.gif are uploaded with boilerplate fair use templates, but they do not have rationales expressed for why they are fair use in this article.

Otherwise, the article looks pretty good; I'll give it a more thorough look once these issues are addressed. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 08:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC) This has all been taken care of, thank you. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 04:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

:Just one more thing. In the "Superstitions and legends" section, the following is uncited:

Another university legend is that of the grave of FIU's first university president, Charles Perry. Perry had requested to be buried at FIU before he died, and was buried under the old University Tower. However, due to construction, his grave had to be moved and was moved across the lake from the tower. Since then, people have said he haunts the area and crosses the lake late at night to his original grave site. This legend becomes popular around Halloween for Halloween events and the university ghost tours.

Please cite it or remove it. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 04:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

This too has been taken care of. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 04:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

GA review (see here for criteria)

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance: I'm not crazy about the embedded list in the "Academics" section, but in this case it probably is better than a series of run-on sentences.
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources: I might have liked a few more third-party sources, but I feel the article is sufficiently sourced.
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused: Both of these are exemplary.
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions: Again, very well done in this area.
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

I am pleased to pass this article by the GA criteria. Congratulations to the editors who worked so hard on improving it. If you feel this assessment is in error, you may take it to Good article reassessment Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 05:01, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bar passage rates.

The description of bar passage rates is a bit misleading. FIU led the state in the February 2007 Bar, but not in the July 2007 Bar (nor any other general Bar exam). It also lead in the August 2007 MPRE (I think in the 2006 MPRE as well) but not in the Feburary 2007 MPRE. Cheers! bd2412 T 05:05, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I reworded the law school rankings to clarify between the two rankings. Let me know what you think. --Comayagua99 (talk) 05:12, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading Photograph

The photograph of meteorologists at work on the main page of the article says " Meteorologists at work at FIU's International Hurricane Research Center in 1970." Yet if you look at the sign in the photograph it says the location is at the National Hurricane Center, which in 1970 was not located on the campus of FIU. From 1964 to 1995 the NHC was located on the campus of the University of Miami or across Dixie Highway at Gables One Tower (see: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mfl/history/ ) In fact, Wikipedia's own article about the NHC even states it did not move to FIU until 1995. The caption under the photograph and the presence of the photograph so prominently on FIU's page implies FIU had something to do with the photograph which does not appear to be true. Sirberus (talk) 03:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The description also claims the photo is of the International Hurricane Research Center and differentiates it from the National Hurricane Center. Except that the IHRC's own website states that it wasn't created until 1996 ( http://www.ihc.fiu.edu/about_us/history.htm ) 65.2.189.170 (talk) 20:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Independent Sources

  • I find it a bit concerning that most of the citations in this article, especially those that speak about the quality and recognition of FIU's degree and research programs, are to the University's own websites. It seems that citing exclusively to these sources detracts from the article's credibility. Without independent sources, this article seems to be a mere extension of the University's own website and lacks the independence desired of encyclopedic articles. Bpiereck (talk) 01:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I tried to cite all the sentences you marked as "citation needed" with articles I could find online. For most of these statements, there are many websites referring to them, many not University-affiliated. You're free to add more references and replace the ones I've listed if you don't like them. --Comayagua99 (talk) 01:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Metropolitan Miami" or "West of Miami"

Let's settle this here, through rational discussion, not by making edits back and forth in the article. What are the facts? bd2412 T 16:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The FACTS are that the FIU campus is in University Park, Florida. Another FACT is that University Park is located due west of the city of Miami, Florida. This is more specific than saying metro area. Isn't an encylopedia about being the most specific? Miamiboyzinhere (talk) 16:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
FIU is in University Park, Florida in metropolitan Miami. This had been settled a while back, to be worded the same as the University of Miami ("Coral Gables in metropolitan Miami"). University Park specifies its exact location in Miami-Dade County, metropolitan Miami specifies the city it associates with and the area it represents. The university brands itself as "Miami's public research university" and all its addresses list Miami, therefore, I think it makes more sense to leave it as it is. --Comayagua99 (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Is it within the Miami city limits? I always thought that the main campus was in Sweetwater, although there certainly are campuses all around South Florida. Maybe the lead should refer to the general presence of the University, rather than the main campus. bd2412 T 18:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Good point. FIU isn't just at University Park, it's in Downtown Miami, North Miami, Pembroke Pines, Homestead, etc. All of which are in the Miami metropolitan area, therefore, I think it's best to leave it as is, to better explain FIU's range. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Comayagua99 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The first sentence of the article is ONLY talking about the main campus. Which is *more specifically* WEST OF MIAMI Miamiboyzinhere (talk) 16:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Pembroke Pines is in Broward County. It's better to say South Florida metropolitan area. Miamiboyzinhere (talk) 18:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Which is metropolitan Miami. It makes more sense to leave it as "with its main campus in University Park in metropolitan Miami", it's pretty clear and straight forward. It addresses the location of the main campus within the university's larger extent. --Comayagua99 (talk) 03:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't think Broward can really be said to be "metropolitan Miami", but more than 90% of the University's operations can definitely be described as being in metropolitan Miami. Last I checked, 3/4 of students attend the University Park campus, close to 1/4 attend the N. Miami campus, and there are classes offered in both Downtown Miami and on South Beach. bd2412 T 03:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The first sentence of the article is ONLY talking about the main campus. Which is *more specifically* WEST OF MIAMI

Can we see a map, please, with the location of the campus and the boundaries of "metropolitan Miami"? bd2412 T 23:31, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Vote West The main campus is more specifically west of Miami. Anything more specific, like 8th street and 107th avenue, is too much information. Anything more general, like metro Miami, can be further refined. Timhowardriley (talk) 02:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Evidence, please. Where does "Metropolitan Miami" end? bd2412 T 05:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Metropolitan Miami is anywhere from Palm Beach County to anywhere in Miami-Dade County. Hence, FIU is in the Miami metro area. --Comayagua99 (talk) 05:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

This whole debate is so ridiculous. Adding the external link to a google map image does not aid people at all since the coordinates of the university and university maps are already linked in the article. The intro is confusing if we say "located here in UP, Miami, Fl, USA". The previous intro statement is clearer "located in UP in metro Miami, FL in the USA". I don't understand what the big commotion is about. It IS in University Park and the university IS in metro Miami. What's the problem? --Comayagua99 (talk) 17:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Regarding, "This whole debate is so ridiculous": look in a mirror. Timhowardriley (talk) 21:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
? --Comayagua99 (talk) 21:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok, here is a map of Miami-Dade county. To find FIU-UP, noe need only draw a line going due west from Coral Gables, and another due south from Westchester. FIU lies at the intersection of those lines. I think it would be entirely accurate to say "with its main campus located at the heart of metropolitan Miami-Dade County". How does that sound? bd2412 T 23:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
What about "located in metropolitan Miami, Florida, in the United States, with its main campus in University Park". I think that's satisfies both parties. It identifies the range of the university as FIU has campuses in Broward, and throughout Miami-Dade (Miami metro area), and then it specifies the location of the main campus at University Park. --Comayagua99 (talk) 01:04, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
But isn't University Park simply the name of the campus? It seems we are saying that University Park is located in University Park. How about we instead say that its main campus is West of Coral Gables and south of Westchester? bd2412 T 02:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
University Park is the name of the campus and the CDP name of the area within Miami-Dade is called University Park, after the university. If one clicks on the link to the University Park, Florida article, it shows you exactly where in Miami it is. Therefore, I don't think it's really necessary to add landmarks to identify its location. University Park is pretty specific location already. --Comayagua99 (talk) 02:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I find that unhelpful. University Park is a disambiguation page indicating about a dozen places by that name, and even though there is one particular "place" in Florida with that name, a person with only a surface familiarity with the area would gain no guidance from that description. A lot more people will be familiar with the location of Coral Gables, or of the airport, as a reference point. bd2412 T 04:38, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Per our policy that "Wikipedia is not a directory of links" and our external links policy, I removed the following links from this article:

I believe these links, in the aggregate, (a) add little value to this article and (b) move it away from being an encyclopedia article and towards being a directory of links. Another editor apparently disagrees and contests the removal of these links. Thoughts? --ElKevbo (talk) 02:18, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the bookstore and the "license plates" links should definitely be out, since they serve purely commercial purposes. The admissions, alumni, and campus tour pages should probably stay, as they are likely to be sources of the kind of information people would look for. I am ambivalent about the Beacon and WRGP, but have no strong objection to them. The "FIU Insider" is actually a link to an external website with a subpage of FIU athletic news, and I have no preference about this either. bd2412 T 04:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I definitely agree about the bookstore and license plates links and I would include the scouts.com ("FIU Insider") link, too. I do not agree with the other links as this is an encyclopedia article, not an admissions brochure. I do not contest that they may have truthful and potentially valuable information but we must draw a line somewhere and my experience with many other college and university articles is that we should err on the side of non-inclusion lest the article turn into a de facto directory of links. --ElKevbo (talk) 20:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree with BD2412 on this one, the bookstore and license plate links need to go and the admissions, alumni and campus tour links are all very important to that article and need to stay. The other links are also important and pertain to the article, such as "FIU Insider", other links such as WRGP and The Beacon however, can probably go. For example, the campus tour link is extremely helpful and informative. People come to this article, to look for information on FIU, the video gives you a easy-to-understand "this is FIU" aid to what the university. If anything, that video is crutial to the article and extremely helpful. --Comayagua99 (talk) 05:45, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll buy the campus tour site but what's so special about the Scouts.com site (don't be fooled by the "FIU Insider" nonsense)? And precisely what information on the admissions and alumni sites are so special as to merit inclusion of the links in an encyclopedia article? --ElKevbo (talk) 12:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)