Talk:Florida Atlantic University/Archive 2

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 Pictures
2 Notable Student Activism
3 Rewrite
4 Non-standard infobox
5 Copy-edit of lead
6 Second pass in progress complete
- 6.1 Alumini: why semicolons were inserted
7 Commuter student issue

[edit] Pictures

Pic storage for the moment. KnightLago 01:04, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Student Activism

I removed this section from the article for a number of reasons. First, the university has had more important activism in the past than dance marathons. I recall in the past seeing pictures of Vietnam war protests, but I can't find any solid information. Also, these events are very recent and do not include any other activism. Second, from searching the university's website, I see no real organized encouragement of community service by the university. Other universities have departments that encourage community service and have more information on the service done by a university, events, history, statistics. I can't find that for FAU so there is really nothing to write about besides extremely small single events. Which just make a list, which is discouraged. The entire section is below. If anyone can find some more detailed information on the subject let me know and I will try and work it in. From the article:

Five members of the FAU community took part in a 200-mile humanitarian effort called the Bike2Belarus Initiative, a directive of the Irish Students 10k. One of the poorest nations in Europe, Belarus was ravaged by after effects of the 1986 Chernobyl accident. Ultimately, the bike trip raised a quarter of a million dollars for Belarus, matched by the Irish Government and used for the construction of a hospice and orphanage.[1]
The Annual FAU 16-hour Dance Marathon raises money for the Children's Miracle network, which in turn benefits the Shands Children's Hospital at the University of Florida. In 2004, thirty-eight dancers ultimately raised $7,000.[2] In 2005, more than fifty volunteers danced the night away to raise $11,500.
FAU Softball raised $1,400 over a three-day tournament in its effort to "Strike Out Cancer." The fundraiser, noted by the Sun-Sentinel, was held during the FAU Classic softball tournament on Feb.16-18, 2007. Members collected donations for each strikeout. All of the proceeds went to the America Cancer Society for the 2007 Relay for Life that took place at FAU's Boca Raton campus. [3][4][5]
Over 100 FAU students rallied to form a human chain during the "Save Darfur" event in the hopes of raising awareness of the ongoing genocide crisis. The student-run event was sponsored by FAU's Amnesty International chapter. The Jewish Community Relations Council of the Jewish Federation of South Palm Beach County sponsored an FAU sophomore to participate in the "Save Darfur Now: Voices to End Genocide" rally that took place on Sunday, Sept. 17, 2006 in New York's Central Park. [6][7]

KnightLago 17:17, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

The history needs to be rewritten from scratch with sourcing and less dates. KnightLago 23:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I stumbled upon this article tonight as I was assessing some of the unassessed WikiProject Universities articles. I've labeled it as B-Class, and, while I was reading the article, decided to just go ahead and try the rewrite myself. I've tried to cut out a lot of the cruft, as well as all the athletics information (which makes more sense in the Athletics section or in a separate article on that subject anyway).

As I glanced over the rest of it, this article seems like one that could pretty easily be brought up to good article status. It needs some work on references (especially all the numbers that are cited in the History section), and there needs to be a standardized system of citing those references (preferably using <ref> tags and citation templates). I'd also suggest that you change the wikitable at the top of the article to a standardized template (like the Infobox University template), if only to make things look a bit less crowded up top. Maybe get a fresh set of eyes to look over the whole thing so as to tighten up all the text. All of this stuff is pretty easy, though. Good luck! Esrever 03:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

With regard to the wikitable, we're working on an FAU version of the Florida State University wikitable and we can't do that as a regular template. Go Owls 06:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I think we are well on our way to GA and beyond. We have been working on it for a while now trying to improve it. The history section really jut needs to be rewritten from scratch; and that and the Greek section are the only things I haven't done any work on. We also need to write something short for the alumni section, and then work on a few other things. I am going to work on it some more this weekend. As for the table as is, I like it, we can keep it for now and then see how others like it. We can always change it back easily. KnightLago 11:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, do whatever you guys (the regular editors) think looks best. I was just pointing out that it looks "cluttered" to me is all. Whatever you end up doing with it, make sure to include a fair use rationale for the logo you're using there. :) Esrever 15:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-standard infobox

Hi there, folks. There is a discussion currently underway at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities about the use of non-standard infotables on this and a few other articles on universities in Florida. I and a few other editors would support standardising to {{Infobox University}}. That infobox has widespread consensus among editors and is used on several thousand articles. Editors here may wish contribute the the discussion at the WP:UNI talk page. If no issues are raised, the infobox here will be standardized. — mholland (talk) 20:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copy-edit of lead

Copy-editing notes, not to be critical, but to explain the reasoning behind changes: The campuses don't span 100 miles of coastiline -- those would be very expensive campuses! The counties they serve span the 100 miles :). Clarified language to affirm that only the Ft. Pierce location is at Harbor Branch, not all of them. "Additional satellites" is redundant. "Satellites" serves the purpose. Changed "over 100,00" degrees to "more than", as "over", being a physical condition, would suggest that it is very hot there, even for Florida :) (over 100k degrees) Edited enrollment history for consistency of tense.

Regarding the last paragraph of the lead, not sure whether the first sentence intends that it serves primarily the needs of commuter students. Also, the elevation of the status of the football team seems inconsistent with a paragraph devoted to increased academic status. Will leave those alone for now, but suggest the authors/editors of the article consider these issues. Unimaginative Username 01:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The commuter students sentence is compromise language that was fought over for a while. We were trying to say that while the school serves a large number of commuter students, as evidenced by the housing info, they are trying change that. The other part you were referring to:

Brogan's efforts have resulted in not only an increase in the university's academic profile, but also the elevation of the football team to Division I competition status, plans for an on-campus football stadium, and a partnership with Boca Raton Community Hospital and the University of Miami's Miller School of Medicine to build a teaching hospital on the main campus in Boca Raton.[7][9][10][11]

I think this shows that not only have the admissions standards have increased, but also other changes are being made as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KnightLago (talk • contribs) 01:53, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I made an attempt to change the sentence in question to capture the intent as you said. Please review and make further changes if this is not what was intended. Thanks for clarifying. Regards, Unimaginative Username 02:47, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] C/e of "Expansion"

We are given the name Roger Miller without any information as to who that person is. Again, not to be facetious, a Roger Miller recorded many novelty records, including "Chug-A-Lug", quite possibly very apropos for a college :-) Anyway, I added "Author...", but if he has some other title, e. g., historian, professor, etc. please add it. Also, point of interest, the reason a comma was added after "third campus" is to clarify that it was the university's third campus, but not "the third campus in downtown Ft. Lauderdale" (there are not three campuses in downtown Ft. L.) Thanks. Unimaginative Username 02:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stopping here for now

Completed c/e through "Profile". Hope fresh eyes can take over, or I will try to get back to this within the next day or two. Hope this helps. Unimaginative Username 02:53, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questions re grant for merger of Ft. Pierce campus and HBOI

The Recent history section says: the Florida Legislature allocated $53 million in 2007 for Florida Atlantic to acquire the institution.

Ft. Pierce Campus section says: The Florida Legislature allocated $53 million in 2007 to FAU and the Harbor Branch Oceanographic Institution in order to acquire the institution.[65]

Was the grant allocated solely to FAU, as the earlier sentence implies, or was it awarded jointly to FAU and HBOI, as the latter implies? Thanks! Unimaginative Username 07:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It was to Florida Atlantic per [8]. The number also recently changed because of budget cuts, so I am going to update the number and cite it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KnightLago (talk • contribs) 13:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Done KnightLago 13:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Since the merged entity has a new name, I spelled out the full name for its first appearance in the article (HBOIAFAU). Please make sure I have the full name correctly, and revise as needed. (After the full name appears once, future appearances can be abbreviated as before). Unimaginative Username 20:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question about "Campus organizations and activities"

The existing text, "...the university's first-ever street parade with floats built by students" implies that the University might have had many previous street parades, but that this one is the first one in which floats are built by students. If that is indeed the intent, then the sentence remains as is. However, I think it likely that this is the University's first street parade ever, with the additional information that the floats will be built by students. In this case, our trusty old friend, the comma, does the trick all by itself: "...the university's first-ever street parade, with floats built by students." Someone who has knowledge of the parade issue needs to adjust if necessary, or give me the information and I'll edit accordingly. (Puncuation does matter!) Regards, Unimaginative Username 08:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

This is the first ever street parade with floats, and students are going to build them. I removed the students part to try and get this right. :-) KnightLago 13:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Given that information, I can get it all in :-) Unimaginative Username 20:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First pass done, other than the above questions

Will check back in a day or so with fresh eyes, and it's hoped a different pair of eyes will have scrutinized the article as well. Unimaginative Username 08:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Second pass in progress complete

Catching some tiny things that were missed the first time -- always do after a break! Incidentally, many dictionaries and other sources have no objection to "in order to...". Others, including some WP editors and copy-editors, believe that "in order to" means the same thing as "to", so the extra words are unnecessary. I'm going with the latter school of thought. The fewer words and the more easily our articles read, the better. But that is not a criticism of those who wrote the previous version, as it's a matter of taste. Regards, Unimaginative Username 19:46, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Amazing how many things were missed in the first pass. But that's why there are second passes! :) Will move to "Ready for proofread", and will probably comment at FAC. Very fine article. Unimaginative Username 21:17, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alumini: why semicolons were inserted

If anyone is wondering, consider this sentence: "Some notable Florida Atlantic alumni are R. David Paulison, the head of the United States' Federal Emergency Management Agency, and current FAU President Frank T. Brogan..." Are we talking about three people here? Paulison, the FEMA head, whoever that is, and Brogan? The semicolon after "Agency" makes it clear that "the head of FEMA" refers to Paulison and not to another alumnus who is being listed here without her/his name.

Also: "Other alumni are Chris Carrabba, the lead singer of the band Dashboard Confessional, and Phil Zimmermann, the creator of Pretty Good Privacy." Again, are there three? Carraba, plus whoever is the lead for DC, plus Phil Z? As above, the semi-colon separates "singer" from the next phrase, and so makes it clear that "lead singer" refers back to Carraba; hence, only two people. Why, you ask (you probably don't), must we not also do that for Phil Zimmerman? Because if Phil Z and the creator of PGP were two separate people, there would have to be an "and" before the last item in the series, "PGP creator". Since there isn't one, it is clear that PZ is the PGP guy.

Please be assured that these matters are of interest only to copy-editors :-), and that is because they are fanatics about removing any possibility of ambiguity/alternate readings/misreadings. Cheers! Unimaginative Username 21:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I see that there was a revert of the semi-colons (which has since been undone). Here is one source for the inclusion of semi-colons: Comma

"6. The comma is used to separate items in lists.

- However, if any of the individual items in the list is complex and long, or contains a comma itself, it is best to use a semicolon (;) to separate the items, and possibly to introduce the list with a colon (:):
  - We had soup of the day; sole meunière, interestingly prepared with lime juice instead of lemon juice, and an unusual variety of parsley; a fruit salad; and a good port to finish off.
  - There were several tasks facing them: shaping the mast, for which they could use an adze or, with some difficulty, an axe; raising the finished mast; and caulking the timbers with whatever suitable material could be found. "

Regards, Unimaginative Username 20:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commuter student issue

Re: change by Go Owls to: "Although Florida Atlantic provides for the educational needs of commuter students, in recent years it has undertaken an effort to increase its academic and research standings while also evolving into a more traditional university."

I'll revert one time, but I'm not going to get into an edit war here. The sentence as revised above is a complete non sequitur. The fact that the University might provide for some commuter students (and possibly many dorm-resident students at the same time) has nothing to do with not being traditional or becoming more traditional. The only way that that the introductory clause has any relation to the remainder of the sentence is if the University presently serves "only" or "primarily" or "mainly" commuter students. Then, and only then, does there become a contrast to traditional universities that are more oriented to students from outside the area. My wording to the effect of "substantial body of commuter students" was intended to avoid arguments over "primarily", etc. This is not a content issue, it is a copy-editing issue. You guys hashed out the fact that FAU is oriented to commuters, but is changing its focus. I changed the wording to reflect accurately what the consensus decided was fact. That is what copy-editors do: they make sure that the language used does in fact reflect what is meant. A person who does not understand the shades of meaning of language, or why the above revision is a non-sequiter, should leave copy-editing to those who do. No offense: continue to research and source good information, and the WP:LOCE will help you put it into polished prose. Please respect it when they do. Regards, Unimaginative Username 03:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

GO I am not trying to change the consensus that we have developed. When the article was copy edited for its featured article candidacy (see here) the reviewer noticed that the sentence as we had it was incorrect grammatically. Please see their comment above. In order to fix this they added the substantial body part, which makes it correct. The sentence has not changed from what was developed earlier. It still makes the point that the school is changing for the better. Also, you were right about the housing part, I left that in. But, please discuss here before changing again so we can all be on the same page. Thanks. KnightLago 14:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Look, I'm not going to argue this anymore because quite frankly I'm tired of these long debates on the internet that drain hours out of my life and ultimately contribute nothing in return. When I came upon this page, it was nothing but a collection of negative statements about FAU... a flame war with no proponents for the university. I came in to counterbalance it and educate people about the school; I spent days upon days adding things that ultimately were either reworded completely or deleted outright by others. To put all that effort into it and to have it be destroyed is insulting and depressing.

In the process, I learned a lot about what Wikipedia wants to be versus what it actually is. Wikipedia wants to be the ultimate source of information, sculpted and policed by individuals who hold steadfast to the Wikipedia Commandments (e.g. have a verifiable source for all statements made). In reality, Wikipedia is a marketing tool, arranged and edited by everyone with an agenda. The Wikiscanner report proved this. This FAU page is on the very first page of results when someone does a Google search for "FAU." This information is read by thousands of people -- students, employers and otherwise -- who are trying to get a grasp on what this university is about. We hold to the Wikipedia Commandments while editors for the Wikipedia pages of other Florida colleges (like the "brochure" that is Florida International University's wiki, why don't you stop over there Unimaginative Username?) do not, creating a vast imbalance. That vast imbalance is typical of not just Wikipedia pages on colleges but on every single thing in the Wikipedia universe.

There is no reason to come on here and write anything because ultimately people who are against FAU will either water it down by saying "this incited controversy when" or delete it outright. It's a dead cause and I'm tired of devoting any amount of my life to it. Write whatever you want. Go Owls 02:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)