Talk:Florence Cathedral

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Contents 1 old 2 size 3 spelling 4 wrong info 5 title 6 Design 7 History 8 PLANS & DRAWINGS OF Santa Maria del Fiore (Il Duomo) 9 Requested move 9.1 Survey 9.2 Discussion 10 The facade 11 Dome's Lantern

[edit] old

Can anyone figure out if it's Santa Maria del Fiore or Santa Maria dei Fiori ("of the flower" vs. "of the flowers")? I thought it was the latter, and Google gives lots of hits for both. - Montréalais

It is the former (Santa Maria del Fiore) in all the books I have seen having researched the dome of it for a paper - 24.5.100.229

does it matter... i mean it isnt that big of a difference

[edit] size

i cant find out how big it is anywhere!

My art teacher said it was 106 ft high.

According to Michele Fanelli (an engineer who has worked on the maintainence of the dome and who wrote a book -- Brunelleschi's Cupola -- with Giovanni Fanelli (brother?), the height of the drum supporting the dome is 53.85 m. The dome itself adds another 35.75 m (about 117 feet Brit measure), for a total height of 89.60 m. The climb to the top from ground level is 463 steps. You can do it in 10 breathless minutes so long as you are not behind a slowpoke.

216.113.201.242 00:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)Alan Donald (donald@portal.ca)

[edit] spelling

In "transcribe a circle on a kone face", is "kone" an obscure architectural term, or should it be corrected to "cone"? Wdfarmer 04:16, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Must be the work of some vandal. I've changed it to "cone". JoJan 11:40, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] wrong info

I cut this sentence about the dome: One obscure architect at the time even proposed to fill the Duomo with soil before the dome was built so that it could be built on top of the shaped dirt (it was not yet known how to build a dome with that much weight and magnitude). When asked how to get the dirt out, it was proposed that the city should fill the dirt with coins and the paupers would eventually empty the dome.

This is popular legend about the Pantheon in Rome, which has a large dome too. The exact description of the legend can be found in this book: Guida all'Italia leggendaria, misteriosa, insolita e leggendaria, Volume 4 (Lazio, Rome section), Oscar Mondadori, Verona, 1971 --82.104.171.102 12:26, 7 June 2006 (UTC) oops I was not logged on --Sailko 12:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] title

Isn't this best known as the "Florence Duomo", or some such? I've been in Florence twice (most recently, er, yesterday), and I've never heard its proper name before. john k 02:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

"Santa Maria del Fiore" is the official name of the Duomo. Any other name would only lead to confusion. JoJan 16:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Whuh? How would Florence Duomo or Duomo of Florence possibly lead to any confusion? There is only one Duomo in Florence. Wikipedia naming conventions specify that we use the "most common name", not the "official name". john k 19:17, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Surely it should be either Duomo di Firenze or Florence Cathedral? I'd be in favour of the latter: use English.--Stonemad GB 09:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this si a weird name for the page. It should be called the Florence Duomo or something like that. I lived in Florence, was in the duomo piazza every day, and i have never heard it called Santa Maria del fiore. Frithjh 03:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Design

I've scanned through the article, but I didn't find any mention of Arnolfo's interesting design. Most churches are designed in the shape of a cross with the nave, 2 transepts, and apse. However, Arnolfo went a step further. When he designed the cathedral, he put 5 chapels in each of the transepts and the apse, so if looking at a blueprint, it resembles a flower. . .florence, santa maria del fiore, flower. . .

I cannot find any reference to this. But if you have, then add this information to the article, stating your reference(s). JoJan 14:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

The article says that Arnolfo's original design was reduced in size--actually, it was increased in size. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.128.37 (talk • contribs)

Can anyone here tell me what this thing is made of besides stone?

The domes, and I expect much of it behind the stone facing, are brick. The facade & most of the walls are different colours of stone, mostly marble. Johnbod 17:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PLANS & DRAWINGS OF Santa Maria del Fiore (Il Duomo)

Does anyone know if these plans are PUBLIC DOMAIN. If yes, where can they be accessed? thanks in advance the colour guru124.180.214.183 00:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

This article has been renamed from Duomo of Florence to Florence Cathedral as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 08:46, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I read the move discussion, but I still feel like this title is so awkward and weird. In english I feel like it is almost always called "the Duomo", although that is informal and dependent on context. I feel like fewer people know it as the "Florence Cathedral." Duomo of Florence still seems better. Maybe we can think of another alternative as well. Bonus Onus 21:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

"Florence Cathedral!" Unspeakably foolish and ignorant. Who can keep up with all the "decisions" being made in this manner?--Wetman 04:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

• Daft move indeed. In this move to uniform the world, are our English friends going to have London Cathedral forced upon them? - Will they even know where it is? Giano 06:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I really deplore this obsession with moving everything to English translations, even when that isn't the common name. This edifice is always known as the Duomo. I'm English. I've visited Florence. And no English-language guidebook I've seen refers to it as "Florence Cathedral". Wikipedia policy says "use common name" not "translate everything into English even when it then becomes completely unrecognisable to everyone who knows it". -- Necrothesp 09:58, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

All possible variant names, and some impossible ones, are redirects, and the text of the article does not use the term. See the ghit survey above also. Johnbod 23:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The obvious solution is to request a page move here too. Giano 10:12, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Not really. London, Paris, Rome, Edinburgh, Vienna, Prague, Madrid & New York are among the cities that just don't have a Cathedral referred to as foo Cathedral (or Duomo). Of course we all know what all of those are called, don't we? Johnbod 23:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Google is not a particularly reliable source and should not really be used to prove anything. Searching for "Florence Cathedral" produces many hits that are actually "Florence's cathedral" (not the same thing at all) and sites which have been translated verbatim from the Italian. In addition, we have to remember that the internet is dominated by Americans, many of whom seem incapable of accepting that not everything has to be translated into English (hence the common retention in America of Marseilles and Lyons, which haven't been used in the UK in decades). Much more reliable, to my mind, are English language guidebooks. And reputable guidebooks almost all refer to the edifice as the Duomo. -- Necrothesp 08:40, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I think Ian Spackman & I cover that point in the debate above. "What-the-guidebook-calls-it" and the correct title of a WP article are often different things. Should all Italian cathedrals be titled with "Duomo"? 11:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnbod (talk • contribs)

Yes, if that's what they're commonly known as! -- Necrothesp 11:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Why is a simple thing being laboured so? If there's no agreed anglicised nomenclature, we call buildings in non-english speaking countries by there local names - Château de Fontainebleau, Angkor Wat, Masjid al-Haram etc. So we just need to agree if it's the Basilica di Santa Maria del Fiore or the Duomo di Santa Maria del Fiore - any number of other possibilities, for those who don't know the full name, can then by conjured up as redirects. --Joopercoopers 11:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Exactly - the problem is there is no agreed Italian nomenclature! Just out of interest, do you think all sixty-odd Italian Cathedrals should move to the "proper" names? The French ones used to be like that (not changed by me) & I can't tell you how useless and unhelpful it was. Johnbod 23:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed it seems even more obvious when we find Basilica di San Lorenzo di Firenze alive and well and living happily in wikispace. Or should we rename it Florence Cathedral II - this time, the Medici need somewhere to lie? --Joopercoopers 12:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

My opinion, for whatever it matters, is the current English title: "Florence Cathedral" with the ample list of redirects listed above. In conversational Italian I call it "il duomo", and when discussing it in English I happily interchange "duomo", "Santa Maria del Fiore", "cathedral", and "basilica". I'm sure we can also find plenty of alternative transliterations if we turn to nineteenth-century English travel literature. I also don't think we should start changing the titles for German Kathedrale to "Dom", just because that's what they call it. Ultimately I like the current title because it provides the basic, no-nonsense description of the object in question. We have a whole article that follows to give all of the alternative descriptions. However, I see no reason for the official title to be littered with Italian words and prepositions when unnecessary, as in Basilica di Santa Maria del Fiore or Duomo di Santa Maria del Fiore. Basilica of Santa Maria del Fiore, Florence or Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore, Florence successfully integrate proper English with official name (and location). Now we should move over to San Lorenzo and get rid of those prepositions (but stop short of translating it to "St Lawrence"), i.e. Basilica of San Lorenzo, Florence --Stomme 16:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The facade

With all the new images of the Duomo's facade, I wonder if anybody is aware of its date? --Wetman 12:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Only people who have read the article’s words, perhaps. But at least those…. (Assuming that anyone has read an article called ‘Florence Cathedral’. (And with a capital C))—Ian Spackman 13:35, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

It is all explained in the article under the header "Façade". JoJan 13:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dome's Lantern

Construction of the lantern was begun a few months before his death in 1446. Then, for 25 years, little progress was possible, due to alterations by several architects. The lantern was finally completed by Brunelleschi's friend Michelozzo in 1461

I think there is a mistake... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.164.252.165 (talk) 03:36, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

You're right. It was 15 years later. JoJan (talk) 16:47, 29 March 2008 (UTC)