Talk:Flemish Movement

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"The movement is unique in that it is dominated by right-wing politics, whereas similar movements in Ireland, Basque, and Quebec are dominated by left-wing politics." Unique? Seems a rather strong claim to me, compare with Lega Nord in Italy for instance. I wouldn't even know if left-wing separatism is a trend. Junes 10:41, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This article needs some serious revisions. It is not at all neutral. "Flemish culture -- if such a thing exists." "Militants." Etc etc etc.

For example: the myth told is actually quite true, there simply weren't Dutch-speaking officers and the French-speaking officers ended all of their speeches with "...et pour les flamands, le même chose" (French), this means "...and for the Flemish, the same thing". This page is totally anti-Flemish movement. It should be more objective... Dancet 18:28, 8 May 2006 CET

Contents

[edit] French minority

"In the 1930s the Flemish movement grew ever larger and larger and Dutch was recognized for the first time as the sole language of Flanders, and the sizable French-speaking minority of Flanders started being subjected to all sorts of administrative prickles who continue to this day."

The last part of this sentence is totally incorrect:

- there has never been a French-speaking minority in Flanders;

Hm, I more or less agree, altough not totally. There was indeed never a period when a certain part of flanders was inhabited by a local majority of French-speakers. As such, the french-speakers can not be considered in the same perspective as the catalans and the Basques in Spain, or the Scots in Great-Brittain. However, just as there are allophone groups in Flanders since centuries (e.g. Yiddish- and German-speakers), there are also French-speaking groups in Flanders since a while. So, no national minority. --Lucas Richards 15:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
If you look at it that way the French-speakers are indeed an allophone minority (like the Turcs), but I wonder where those German-speakers are:-) --Dionysos1 18:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

- and if there is, it's certainly not sizable;

Correct. Even the figures from the most militant French-speaking groups (very small groups however), never go beyond a few percent of the total flemish population. --Lucas Richards 15:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
And not even a sizable allophone minority indeed. --Dionysos1

- the French-speakers are not subjected to all sorts of administrative prickles; claiming that the Flemings rag them is wrong and unfair; as explained below.

Agree with this; I've seen many claims from militant French-speakers, but I'm still waiting on the first objective account that confirms that French-speakers are illegally discriminated against or harrassed in Flanders. --Lucas Richards 15:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Flanders historically was an homogeneous Dutch (Flemish, Brabantic and Limburgian dialects) speaking area. During time some parts (French Flanders, region of Dunkirk and Calais) were annexed by France and entirely gallacized. The region of present-day Flanders, in the meaning of 'the northern part of Belgium', has always been Dutch-speaking as well. Brussels, originally a Dutch-speaking (and Dutch only) city was after Belgian independence (and French being the only official language, although the majority of the population spoke Dutch) largely and actively frenchified, reducing the Dutch-speakers to a minority. This evolution began at the end of the 19th and remained during the 20th century and has not yet come to a halt.

During the second half of the 20th century, French-speakers moved to the suburbs around Brussels which were Dutch-speaking. Those towns were frenchified as well and in most of them French was either recognised as an official language (next to Dutch) (and thus added to the bilingual area of Brussels) or linguistic facilities (a light form of bilingualism) were installed.

This was a short history of what could be called the French minority of Flanders. But it's clearly a minority of immigrants, not an historical minority as the Swedish in Finland.

Therefore claiming that through unilingualism of Flanders the French-minority is subjected to prickles is wrong (towns became bilingual or they achieved facilities) and unfair (it is an immigrant minority).

This is the reason why I have deleted this sentence and I advise everyone to take a neutral and fair status in this article since it is a very sensitive subject to all parties.

PS: I suspect a non-native speaker of English (like me) of having written this sentence because prickles who continue is as far as I know no good English. (could 156.109.10.17 be French-speaking?) By the way, the person who wrote this has a strong anti-Flemish wikipedian history.Dionysos1 20:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Against!

Looks to me that the Flemish movement is much wider than only separatists! On the Dutch page, it apparently mentions 5 major tendencies within the Flemish movement. The separatists are only one of them. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about the Flemish movement could clarify this further.

  • Do not merge I agree the Flemish movement is more than just political, and certainly more than just separatist. Bejnar 05:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Do not merge for the same reason.Dionysos1 18:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do not Merge !

The Flemish movement is a much broader concept than advocacy of Flemish independence (separatism, calling for the splitting of Belgium in two or more independent states). Where there is no majority in favour of Flemish independence, probably a majority of the "Flemish people" (Dutch speaking Belgians) would defend their Flemish identity, as opposed to "Belgicism" or francophilia. Moreover, there is a Flemish cultural movement, totally distinct and not to be identified with any political point of view.

[edit] Flandern und Deutschland by Kurt Kerlen

The Library of Congress gives the subject of this 1917 book as "Flemish movement."

I'm only interested in knowing more about Kurt Kerlen.
This author also wrote/edited/compiled Boche and Bolshevik.
My contribution is to let you know about the old Library of Congress use.
Can anyone tell me anything about Kurt Kerlen besides this author's association with Nesta Webster? Was Kerlen an important figure in the Flemish movement?

Thanks.

Inadvertently I failed to sign the above.--Ludvikus 23:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)