Talk:Flatland

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Contents

[edit] Discworld

Discworld is not at all like Flatland -- no explorations of worlds with more or less than three dimensions, just parodies of various science-fiction and fantasy. Removing. --Crunchy Frog 23:07, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I agree that Discworld has no relevance here, but Pratchett's work is not just parody. Of course Discworld is not a 2-dimensional space - the disc has height, and this is three dimensional.--RLent 17:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Term "Flatland[er]" in culture

  • There's nothing in the article nor on this talk page about use of "Flatland" or "Flatlander" in other discussions, such as its use as an accusation of narrow thinking. I'll look for sources, and if there's no objection I'll add something, or encourage others to. Barno 18:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
    • No relevant hits on Google's first "Flatlander" page, but there's a website listing the "Big Flaming Paper Sack of Dog Poo Award" on the same page as someone using "flatlander" for a Blogspot nickname. Guess I should look at later pages or refine the search. Barno 18:15, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
      • About half the first page of hits googling "Flatlander+thinking" are this usage. I'll add some text and some sourcing, and people can edit it as needed to, um, round it out. Barno 18:20, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
  • But does this mean (or is it being confused with) 'Flat-Earthers', i.e. people who believe the earth is flat rather than round? Ben Finn 13:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • The term Flatlander when used in terms of narrow thinking has nothing to do with this article, so no mention of it should be used.
There should be some mention - if only a "see also" - for folks who think the term is derived from this book and come here looking for guidance. ... As I noticed, after writing this note, that somebody has already done. That is sufficient, I think. - DavidWBrooks 16:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] movie of the book

Let's wait until the movie exists before we link to it - the world is full of "almost-made" movies that never make it to "made" - although it looks like it could be good. - DavidWBrooks 23:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

No Spoiler warnings? 72.224.120.138

The movie has been made -- just awaiting release http://www.flatlandthemovie.com/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.231.235.173 (talk • contribs) 11:14, April 17, 2007 (UTC)

It has been linked for some time. - DavidWBrooks 11:33, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] where is Flatland?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember the sphere telling Square that Flatland was on the surface of a body of water, like a sea. Relevant? Wikiwarlock 19:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Do you have a cite? Sounds like you're misremembering. Xihr 20:10, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
  • He does say that (he calls the plane of Flatland a "fluid" because he can pass through it), but he's just explaining his ability to sink below the surface when he uses the "fluid" metaphor. This is during the scene in A. Square's house when the Sphere unsuccessfully tries to describe the third dimension (and Spaceland) with words. A. Square doesn't comprehend this metaphor or any other attempts properly and only understands once he is shown. Flatland appears to be a plane within Spaceland (just as Square dreams that Lineland is a line within the plane of Flatland). An infinite, but permeable, plane viewed from above could properly be described as a "sea." Oh yeah, as for a citation (it comes from Part II, chapter 16 "How the Stranger Vainly Endeavoured to Reveal to Me in Words the Mysteries of Spaceland") :

"You are living on a Plane. What you style Flatland is the vast level surface of what I may call a fluid, on, or in, the top of which you and your countrymen move about, without rising above it or falling below it."

--Curien1000 18:21, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other works?

Does anybody recall a more recent novel based on a two-dimensional universe? I know it exists and I've read it, but I don't know the title off hand. It was somewhat more technical in approach, but it was most definately inspired by Flatland. 24.57.252.179

Probably The Planiverse by A. K. Dewdney. Xihr 22:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Didn't this originally have links to the Flatland RPG sites? I found one of them eventually by going through three or four links, but can't find the other at all now.

My game (The Original Flatland RPG) is at http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=ROW003

The KaSe game was at http://edge.rpgnow.com/default.php?manufacturers_id=637 but this seems to be a bad link now, not sure what's happened to it,

Hope this helps Marcus Rowland 17:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Content?

Lots of nice links to further reading, but I've still no idea what the novella is about. I know that it's of interest to mathematicians, but no clue as to its actual substance. Not very useful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.144.73.31 (talk) 21:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

Huh? There's a long paragraph that describes the story, and then discussion about the social aspect. What else are you looking for? - DavidWBrooks 23:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Although that's true, the story wasn't described with much detail and several important elements were reported incorrectly, in the wrong order, or completely ommitted. I fixed a few things today. Before, Square's expulsion from Spaceland and imprisonment in Flatland were sort of combined into a single event and it was implied that Square was imprisoned for guessing that a fourth dimension might exist. Only the abrupt return to Flatland was related to Square's theorizing about a fourth dimension - he was imprisoned in Flatland for telling his own people about the third dimension. Also the article originally omitted the fact that Square and the Sphere were eventually reconciled and that the visit to Pointland occurs AFTER expulsion from Spaceland. I also put in the sub-plot about A. Square's imprisoned brother.I have the timeline in the correct order now, but my writing is pretty weak. Feel free to clean it up, but please keep the story true to the book. --Curien1000 18:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia isn't an online Cliff notes - we don't need to relate every plot element of every book. The point is to give a quick overview of the storyline for the casual reader; dragging in every single plot and subplot makes things unreadably long and tedious, as I personally think you've done. But I won't revert it, since it's a matter of taste. - DavidWBrooks 20:49, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Depth perception

Even though flatlanders could only view two dimensional objects in one dimensional cross sections, couldn't they have utilized paralax? It's analogous to us three dimensional beings. We only view the world through two dimensional cross sections (you can never see an entire 3D object all at once without rotating it and going inside of it). Yet, we have depth perception because the closer an object is to the eyes, the more different cross sections that are produced in each eye. It just seems like the "fog" and "feeling" is a messy idea that could have been solved easily. Paralax would have solved the problem of getting impaled by a woman for example, because although a woman might appear pointlike to one eye, she would appear as a line segment in the other eye due to the different viewing angles of each eye.

Sorry- wrong term. It's not called paralax, it's stereopsis, but same principle. 24.187.17.94 05:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Flatlanders only have one eye - it's also used as their mouth. If they arre geometrical shapes without any internal structure they would fall apart if there was more than one opening into their bodies, which is why impalement is so deadly. Marcus Rowland 16:59, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, the Flatlanders do have internal structure: The sphere pokes the square's insides (the square can feel it), and from Spaceland, they can see the internal structure that the square previously could only imagine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.42.161.36 (talk) 16:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sexism

Having only run through some of the book, I'm not sure if this is relevant but: maybe this article should mention the sexism in the book? In part 1, section 3, they refer to the lower class inhabitants as "creatures almost on a level with women in their lack of intelligence". Unless this is some sort of victorian humour that I don't understand, I think it deserves to be at least mentioned here. Slut.i.huvudet 00:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Though the two-dimensional society portrayed in Flatland is undoubtedly sexist, the book itself is not; Abbott was satirizing Victorian attitudes towards women, not condoning them. This, of course, would be a good thing to mention in this article. Adso de Fimnu 04:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Penname?

I was told by my Geometry teacher when we read the book that Abbott used a penname when he originally published it. Is this true? If so, it would be worth mentioning. 71.127.122.7 01:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Abbott was a distinguished schoolmaster and theologian. The first edition of the book was released under the pseudonym (or pen name) of "A. Square", which it carries to this day. I do not know which edition added Abbott's name, but preface to the 2nd edition (also 1884) indicates the author remained anonymous. Perhaps it was after he retired in 1889. --Blainster 00:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The name of the narrator ("A. Square" vs "a square")

It is a surprisingly common mistake for people to think that the narrator of Flatland is named "A. Square". This is not true, however. The original title page said, "By A Square"--no period after the "A", which is simply the indefinite article (this can be seen on the title page reproduced in this Wikipedia article). Throughout the novel, not a single character is named. I have corrected this mistake in the article here. JudahH 03:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flatland as a social satire

It would be nice to add in information stuff about how Flatland is a satire of Victorian society rather than just talking about the book itself.

But we need citations to add this information. — Val42 19:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A reference

Brian Greene makes extensive use of Flatland (and Lineland) as an analogy in his books The Elegant Universe and The Fabric of the Cosmos. Perhaps that could be included in the "Other Uses" section? 66.66.133.188 23:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unrelated films

"A 1997 animated short Flatworld is unrelated to Flatland". if it's unrelated shouldn't it be deleted? --G30ffr3y (talk) 01:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

That's a judgment call. Mentioning it might help confused readers who came to this article by accident: "Oh, right, now I remember - it was Flatworld!" On the other hand, we can't mention every movie or book that might be confused with this one, so the question is whether this is close enough to be worth mentioning. I'd say yes. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Edition of Flatland

Anyone know anything about the First Edition of it? 1884 is the year of his Second and Revised Edition. --70.23.237.75 (talk) 15:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)