Talk:Flanging

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Contents 1 Comparison with phasing 2 Two points 3 Comparison with Phasing 4 Not just playback 5 Recordings with a prominent flanging effect 6 Blue Jay Way Standard flanging 7 Question

[edit] Comparison with phasing

Seems to be the "Comparison with Phasing" section is rather wrong-headed (or perhaps just rather pedantically obtuse): Flanging is created not by a "uniform phase shift" but by applying a *time delay* to the signal (classically, with tape flanging, by physically slowing the tape down on one reel, or in solid state electronics, by putting the signal through a bucket brigade delay line. This gives a DIFFERENT phase shift to each component of the frequency spectrum, not a uniform one.--feline1 15:35, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Two points

1. the signals don't have to be in opposite phase. In fact I believe they're usually in phase.
2. "According to one story, the effect was given its name by none other than Beatle John Lennon in the early 1960s."

Actually, the way HE told it to Kenny Everett in an interview was that he asked producer George Martin how it was done, and Martin bullshitted him with a complicated technical explanation involving "sprocket flanges". Lee M

[edit] Comparison with Phasing

This section seems to contradict itself. Is flanging a type of phasing, or isn't it? Josh Cherry 04:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Auch this page always has been a bit of a dog's dinner, written by muppets who don't really know what they're talking about :-)

If you define 'phasing' as 'swept-comb-filtering, where the resonance peaks in the filter can have any relation to each other', then 'flanging' is that specific subset of phasing where the resonance peaks are in a linear harmonic series.

Some of the confusion arises because this rather academic definition was only dreamt up years after the effects were developed:

the original "tape flanging" is, by that definition, a mixture of flanging and phasing components (which is why it sounds so great) - the subsequent generation of solid state FX boxes which tried to emulate tape flanging in a more convenient & practical way were either pure "phasers" (LFO-swept re-circulting all-pass phase shift filters) or pure "flangers" (LFO-swept recirculating bucket-brigade delay line devices)

Nowadays software implementations have reblurred and blended the distinctions all over again.

--feline1 07:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not just playback

It isn't created by playing to tape machines in sync. It is created by having to tape machines RECORDING the signal onto tape, then taking mixing the output of the playback heads (located after the recording head) together. Thus keeping in sync is dead easy. Of course, one might be plying at a slightly different speed than the other, but that is exactly what you want. The point is that when you flange it, you slow it down, but the moment you let go, it immediately speeds up again. If it were a pure playback thing, the second machine would just keep going slower and slower until you had an echo, not a phasing effect.

I am updating the original article to explain this better.

Thanks for contributing. Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 08:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recordings with a prominent flanging effect

Isn't the intro of "Have a Cigar" by Pink Floyd actualy phase shifting?

I am not sure, but there are way too many entries on that list. Can somebody pare them down, or else I will? Otherwise we could get rid of the section entirely. --Guinnog 08:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I like having the list. It could help someone who has heard of flanging, but is not sure they have heard flanging. What criteria would you suggest for paring? I think one entry per musician/band would be reasonable, but I think there's only one per band now. Some of the entries have more information than others (not just song name), which make them perhaps better - keep only those? Doctormatt 05:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

These lists tend to become full of fan-cruft, they need ruthless pruning.--feline1 09:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, but I ask again: what should be the criteria for pruning? Would sorting, instead of pruning, help? Say, by decade, or by instrument? There is always the option of making a separate article. Doctormatt 16:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I reordered the list with the more specific examples first, in case someone wants to prune the less specific ones. Doctormatt 20:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The List of recordings with a prominent flanging effect has been moved to a new page because it was too long and tending to violate Wikipedia's "no lists" rule. It was not really adding to an understanding of the subject, as some of the recordings in it are quite obscure.--Ianmacm 22:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blue Jay Way Standard flanging

There's good evidence that Blue Jay Way was flanged using an oscillator to control the speed of the pinch wheel, not by the "engineer pressing the tape flange". Physically pressing the tape to slow it down may have been done but at EMI (and presumably other major studios) they used an oscillator.

Personally, I suspect that pressing the flange wheel would have been a pretty unlikely way of changing the speed - professional tape recorders operate at 15 or 30 ips, that's pretty fast to start sticking a finger on it!

Apepper 23:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you have a source for this good evidence? If so you can correct the article. On the other hand, I think that use of "standard" is unclear: the word is used nowhere else on the page. I think it should be deleted (just the word "standard"). That would eliminate this possible error about the exact method of flanging. What do you think? Cheers, Doctormatt 00:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll have to check the wording, but in the "Complete Beatles Recording History" the junior tape operator on the recording complained that he spent hours twiddling the the frequency knob to produce ADT on [I'm pretty sure] Blue Jay Way.

What I'm not clear on is if there's a citation for pressing the flange wheel - I used to have a semi-pro tape recorder that operated at 15 IPS and pressing the flange wheel to adjust the speed would seem a good way to lose a finger!

Apepper 18:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've had a look at the complete recording sessions and I've removed the Blue Jay Way reference and replaced it with Tomorrow Never Knows which was the first Beatles track to use flanging (ADT) - in April 1966. Blue Jay Way used ADT more but 18 months later.

Great - thanks for looking into that. Could you add a citation for that? This article badly needs more (any!) citations. Cheers, Doctormatt 20:39, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added the citation - and a Notes section to encourage others.

Apepper 20:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Didn't Joe Satriani use a flanger in part of the song "satch boogie"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.17.253 (talk • contribs)