Talk:Flag of Iran

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Several flags are missing and the corresponding sections are empty

The pre-revolution flag should include the lion with a sun.

Don't erase the relation with the Sikh symbol. The world must know the iranian flag is a masquerade of obscurantism.

A mention of the similarity to the Khanda is probably appropriate, but an accusation of ignorance or any other insulting language is not. Please read about Wikipedia's NPOV philosophy. Dayv 22:16, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

It's not insulting to explain the facts. You can't tell someone "it's an muslim symbol" and show it to the entire world without showing your ignorance. Go learn arabic you'll understand the symbol is not meaning the word "Allah" in this language with maximum stylizing as possible.

Response: The symbol commonly is described by both Iranian/Islamic and Western authors and intellectuals as representing the sword of Islam (the central part of the symbol) and a stylised representation of the tulip (the flower of martyrdom). By making negative comments about the democratically elected government of the Islamic Republic of Iran you are providing a clear signal that you are an anti-government activist. My understanding of the symbol is that it is a representation of both a sword and the tulip. In regards to the symbol representing Allah in Arabic this is possible. I do not represent myself to be scholar of either Arabic, Iranian history, Iranian politics or any such related topics. I merely deleted a clearly bias representation. Wikipedia is designed to be neutral and your statement is clearly not. Clearly there a similaraties to the Sikh symbol however these are visual and not symbolic. By stating that "The world must know the iranian flag is a masquerade of obscurantism" you show several things: poor grasp of the English language and a desire to discredit the democratically supported revolution, democratically elected government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and a desire to corrupt the knowledge bank of Wikipedia with your personal views.

"democratically elected government" ? mak me laugh. Hitler has been democratically elected too.

Contents

[edit] Nationa Flag of Iran

The lion and sun is not the monarchist flag of iran.It is the real flag of Iran which represents its history,culture and civilization.It has no relation with monarchy or democracy. The Sun and Lion sign is a national hetitage of all iranian people.The sign can be seen among all people of the Iranian oeigin, in tajikestan, among kurds and all other people who are part of the Greater Iranian Arena.It is considered a national flag and a symbol of resistance against the tyranic rule the present regime of Iran.

[edit] I'm creating a separate article for the Shirokhorshid flag

Shirokhorshid -- feel free to merge any information. --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 06:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. I don't know if we should have a full seperate article for the shir-o-khorshid flag. So much of the information is the same as in the present article. Perhaps a summary of what it is and a link to the Flag of Iran page... Any opinions? Tototom 18:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where is the royal light blue flag?

Additionally, during the Pahlavi reign, a royal light blue Flag with a royal emblem (right) was developed for the sole purpose of representing the Pahlavi family.

This was in the article... but there was no accompanying flag to the right! --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 07:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

This article needs major help --K a s h Talk | email 10:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
If you read through carefully you'll see that there are many more flags (other than the pahlavi blue) that are missing. There are also a couple of dynasties/periods that havn't been covered at all. Tototom 18:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

This article should focus only on the standard flag of Iran and of course the flag of Islamic Republic. Other flags need no focus here and should be moved to other articles. Khorshid 10:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I think older flags are important too as they show the history of Iranian flags --K a s h Talk | email 10:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, this is true but for example, of what relevance is personal flag of Agha Mohammad Khan or any monarch here? They are not national flag of Iran, only of their dynasty or office. Mohammad Reza Shah also had his personal flag, but it does not belong here. We should focus on the history of the standard flag which is in reality an ancient symbol and then (as much as we might dislike) the current modificaiton of Islamic Republic flag. Khorshid 11:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know the answer to your question sadly because I am not too knowledgable on the matter, there is a good book on the flags of Iran and their history [1] which explains it all very well, I will try to get a copy some time --K a s h Talk | email 11:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I think that the current flag of Iran evolved over a number of dynasties - each adding their own little bit to the flag. Regardless of what we do with the article (split it or keep as one) I think it's important that we capture this evolution of the flag. My personal sentiment is to keep all the information about all the flags on one page (this one). Another important point is that 'national flags' didn't always exist in parallel to royal flags. At many times the royal and national flags were the same. Tototom 17:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
If that is true, that the personal flags of monarchs was the same as the national flag, then I agree with keeping it all here. But unfortunately like Kashk I am not well read on this subject. I think whatever is done it is important to provide just facts. Khorshid 23:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I think if someone could find the book that Kashk mentioned perhaps there is also information there about Kurdish flag being derived from Iranian one. This is obvious to us but we need a good source so that others do not dispute or remove. Khorshid 23:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


I agree. Perhaps we could glean some knowledge from Encyclopedia Iranica and or Britanica?

The light blue flag is at Imperial Iranian Flags - AnonMoos 06:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About the straight sword flag

Persians never used straight swords. They used something between arabic and western swords. The sword are well shown in the game prince of persia 1. Furthermore a lion do not need a sword, lions have claws and teeth, they would be clumsy with a sword in their hand. Also as shown in the article, persian flag did not have a sword in the lions hand before islam. --Spahbod 19:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Response:- Whether its in his hand or not, the sword WAS in the flag. And also, its like saying "what's the point of red, its only a colour" when you say that a lion would be clumsy with a sword in their hand etc...its also a stupid thing to say when you dont know the meaning...

I just can't believe you're basing the sword on a PS2 GAME...*threatens to strangle*

[edit] Color variants

Something should be said about the fact that during the early 20th century, the flag sometimes appeared in kind of light or pastel colors. AnonMoos 06:26, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sword confusion

Different historical periods were host to different sword designs, and the use of straight or curved swords should not be "politicized" by the ilk of exiled Iranian monarchists. During the Achaemenian and Parthian periods, both curved (cutlass-type) and straight-edged swords were in use. During the Sassanian period, the curved sword was used primarily as a hunting sword, and to accompany the "heavy-cavalry" style of the army, straight blades were used for military swords.


The Persian word for sword reveals the long history of curved swords in Iran (Persia). "Shamshīr" comes from the Middle Persian "shafshēr" which means "lion's tail" because swords were curved like the tail of a lion.

Calling a curved sword a tāzī (Arab) sword is inaccurate, highly racist, and ignorant of history. Medieval Arab armies used curved swords primarily because they provide a superior swing to straight-edged swords and did not require heavier, straight-edged blades used in late-medieval Europe where soldiers may have been more heavily armored.

I believe the image of the straight-edged, exiled Iranian monarchist flag has no historical significance and should be removed. The image with no sword has no relevance as it was never the flag of any Persian empire (the Achaemenian, Parthian, and Sassanian flags were very dissimilar). The sword was not added; the entire lion, sun, tri-colored flag was developed under the Qajar dynasty and did not exist in pre-Islamic or Islamic times prior. Nakhoda84 21:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


No the flag did not exist, but the symbol was there, please take a look at the mithra image in the article. --Spahbod ☼ 21:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

One astranged depiction does not amount to a national symbol, and I would thank you not to delete my comments if you are adding your own. Arguably the straight sword flag should be removed as well since it is not and never was a flag of Iran. Please refer to the Persian language version of this article for a more academic and less politicized discourse on the flags of Iran. Nakhoda84 14:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I have marked this article un-neutral until whomever repeatedly places the straight sword flag stops. This is the article about the flags of Iran. It is a historical article. It is a neutral article. A flag of the lion and sword with a straight sword has been deemed inaccurate per the discussion by myself above. Furthermore, for such flags that have never been a legal flag in Iran at any time in history, a separate article should be created.

Those symbols made by private individuals such as a flag with a straight sword or no sword have no legality, historical precedent, or endorsement by the present or previous governments of Iran. They do not belong in an article about the historical flags of Iran. --Nakhoda84 19:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colours representative of social classes

Hey. Well, I had a corse at the university with a title of "the history of old languages (of Iran)" or something like that where things like the origin of the name "Iran" and the flag were discussed since they were related. I remember that the same colours of our todays flag represented the different social classes of the society in the past: green standed for farmers' (dehghanan), white for the clerics' (mubedan), and red for craftmen's (san'atgaran). I do not remember any reference or sourse for this information, but perhaps some of you may have access to a library to check for its accuracy. Thanks a lot. --Nimak 13:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old Persian Flag

Old Persian Flag.

[edit] Plz Add my flag

Image:Lionflag.PNG
130px

I've uploaded a flag of iran from the before the islamic revolution. plz add it to the article. Oren neu dag 19:09, 26 August 2007 (UTC)