Talk:Fischer-Tropsch process

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Contents

[edit] Images

This page really needs an image that actually represents anything. The current image merely shows a succession of black boxes, all of which are oddly named -- Ec5618 11:53, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Process overview image

I removed the image of the process overview because while it looks like the copy that was uploaded to Wikipedia was from a U. S. government site, the original is acutally from the web page of Syntroleum which would make it copyrighted. You can verify the origin of the image by the fact that this image shows the syngas from the ATR being diluted with N2 which is something that is characteristic of this company's process.

If I am wrong about the copyright status, please correct me on this. Mr D. Logan 03:20, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Can you cite anything else than the N2 doping to determine the origin? - CHAIRBOY (☎) 03:23, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
If you follow the link that I posted, you can see that they have a higher quality version of the picture (and animated!) on Syntroleum's website. I am also pretty sure that no other company's process is able to handle a diluted syngas stream making it rather unlikely that they would put that in a process diagram.

[edit] Suggestion to page author

I cannot see where the step from coal to Syngas is discussed, nor where the excess CO2 comes from in the overall process from coal to diesel. The Fischer-Tropf process itself doesn't show any CO2 on the output side of the equation. Since this CO2 production is one of the major disadvantages of the process, I think it would be useful to outline that preliminary step. Hsfrey 05:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

This article isn't about the Global Warming scam.98.165.6.225 (talk) 11:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FT in Nazi Germany

Fischer-Tropsch was widely used in Nazi Germany but it was not the only way to produce synthetic fuels from coal. The other one was direct coal liquefaction, which accounted for an even larger fraction of the production of fuels. In 1944 in the Reich there were 18 direct liquefaction plants vs. only 9 FT plants.

Source: Cleaner Coal Technology Programme (October 1999). "Technology Status Report 010: Coal Liquefaction". . Department of Trade and Industry (UK)

Hispalois 16:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

That link doesn't seem to work. And may I ask what your reason for posting this is? -- Ec5618 16:08, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Oooops, you are right, here is the updated link. My point is that the current version of the article says that in 1944 Germany "synthetic fuel production reached more than 124,000 barrels per day from 25 plants", which is true but the way it is written it leads to thinking that all 25 plants were Fischer-Tropsch. In actual fact, only 9 of them were FT whereas the majority (18, according to my source) were direct liquefaction. I propose that the article be rewritten to avoid this misunderstanding. Since it is a peer-reviewed article, I preferred to submit the information and get feed-back before editing the article myself. Hispalois 21:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Think you might find that this process was obsolete by the start of the 2nd world war and it was the 'Coalite' process that had taken over. From memory, I think they sold the pattern in 1936. --Aspro 21:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FT in South Africa

While FT liquid fuels were produced during the Apartheid era - Apartheid and the sanctions that ultimately resulted from that policy were not the cause of SA using FT - it was simply its lack of oil resources.

"The world’s only commercial integrated coal-to-liquid fuels and chemicals are currently produced in South Africa by the Sasol company, and there currently exist two commercial GTL plants -- Shell in Malaysia and PetroSA in South Africa -- a third one is now being commissioned by Sasol in Qatar. The history of Sasol’s success stretches back many years and in retrospect it is a development based on astute planning, foresight, willpower, and fortuitous timing. This history is covered briefly, and it provides some lessons for alternate liquid fuel technology commercialization.

A white paper was submitted to the South African Parliament in 1927, indicating the fact that since no oil has been discovered in South Africa, the new German FT invention held promise for South Africa. Dr. Fischer visited South Africa and plans were developed to establish a production facility, and at that time there was no issue of political pressures or limited access to internationally traded oil.

With the advent of the Second World War, these negotiations were interrupted and in 1950 the “South African Coal, Oil and Gas Corporation” was established as a private sector company under government funded sponsorship of the Industrial Development Corporation. A commercial CTL plant was erected on a green field site about 50 miles south of Johannesburg at a place named Sasolburg, and it began producing synfuels in 1955......

...The next major phase in Sasol’s history came about due to the energy crisis of 1973. When oil prices rose sharply, Sasol proposed to the South African Government to build a much larger facility, Sasol Two, since there was a clear economic justification for this project at prevailing and projected prices. In 1974, approval was given and negotiations with the government through the Industrial Development Corporation included assurances regarding a floor price and loan guarantees. A major thrust was the desire to save foreign exchange associated with oil imports. At that time, the mandatory international sanctions against South Africa were not in place,1 and it is a common misperception that Sasol Two was built in response to the sanctions. This second facility was located at a green field site at a site called Secunda."

Refer: SSEB (Southern States Energy Board) 2006, American Energy Security: Building A Bridge To Energy Independence And To A Sustainable Energy Future, [Online], Available: [1] [22 August 2006], (pp. 69-70)

UndineCarmichaels 21:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Efficiency

Can anyone find references to, and summarise, the efficiency of this process, ie starting from coal and water, how much calorific value of oil do you get out for a given CV of coal (and other energy) in? A discussion of greenhouse emissions would also be valued Greglocock 01:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Process clarification

Anyone noticed that this page does not talk at all about the process itself - conditions, catalysts, equilibrium, anyching chemichal??? Anyone can put any scientific facts into this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Denger (talk • contribs) 00:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 07:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Environmental Concerns about a different process altogether have been deleted from this article

This article is about the FT process which is CO+H→hydrocarbons.

This article is NOT about biomass→CO+H which is a whole other process, concerns about which have now been moved to the synthetic fuels page where they are relevent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.9.192 (talk) 22:27, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anderson-Schultz-Flory distribution?

Has anyone ever heard of the Anderson-Schultz-Flory distribution? I just did a Google search for Anderson Schultz Flory, yet found no useful leads, so I have tagged this phrase with a citation needed. DFH (talk) 12:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

No "t" in "Schulz". You'll get loads of hits. LeadSongDog (talk) 04:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, I added a reference describing the "Anderson-Shulz-Flory model" as applied to the Fischer-Tropsch process. If someone would like to produce a graph similar to that in the reference, that would be a very nice addition to this article. Stokerm (talk) 00:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Ooops, looks like I'm not the only one with problems figuring out how to spell Schulz. According to Google, Anderson-Schulz-Flory appears to be the preferred spelling, although quite a few hits pop up for Shulz, Schultz, and Shultz as well. Stokerm (talk) 00:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)