Template talk:First Sea Lord

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Um, what does this mammoth template add that is not achieved by Category:Royal Navy First Sea Lords? The articles (now) have succession boxes (thanks!), and there is a list at First Sea Lord anyway. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

It helps make all the first sea lord articles accessible from each individual lords page - the aim of a template - accessibility and navigation from the page your currently on LordHarris 00:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, as I said, succession boxes get you to the one before and one after in one click, and categories and the list on the main page First Sea Lord page get you there in two clicks. This huge template saves at most one click, but takes up an awfully large amount of screen real estate. How likely is it that an editor will want to navigate from Julian Oswald to Prince William, Duke of Clarence to Sir John Jellicoe? -- ALoan (Talk) 00:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

If you worried about the space it takes up on the screen, there is I believe the permanent option to "hide" the userbox and "show" if you want to see it again? There are a lot of similar templates, which is where I used the idea to link all the articles together on every page e.g. White House Chief of Staff. LordHarris 00:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, I am not convinced how useful that template is either. However, it is noticeably shorter than this one! -- ALoan (Talk) 00:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Its about the same length as Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom and that has its own category as well. If you are worried about the length, what about if in the near future I shortened the template and split it into First Sea Lords for specific time zones e.g. 1914 - 1945, 1946 - Present etc? LordHarris 01:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Revision to Make Compliant with New Standard Template Designs at WP:MILHIST#NAV

Hi, you reverted my edits on the Template:First Sea Lord. I was just wondering why. My only intention was to bring it under the new standard template designs at WP:MILHIST#NAV. I would like to know what grieves you so much about the change to call it very unhelpful. Thanks Woodym555 21:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

It is very unhelpful because:

• The old version worked just fine and was highly intuitive
• Your change only reveals the links to all the biographies if the user correctly guesses where to click. This is no doubt obvious to anyone who has played about editing such templates. It is not in the least intuitive to non-expert readers.
• The benefit in saving space by compressing a box that appears at the bottom of the screen is not exactly obvious. I could see the point if it were something that appeared at the top of the page.
• The argument that succession boxes make this feature unnecessary seems very odd. Succession boxes are a useful feature - in that they make it clear when people did certain jobs, who they replaced, and who replaced them. This on the other had gives a quick at a glance list complete with links.--Toddy1 21:44, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I have not mentioned succession boxes, i think succession boxes serve their purpose. The "state = collapsed" parameter had to be removed, that is all, not the change to a milhist navbox. Personally i think it takes up less space on the page if it is hidden, but if you don't want the compress feature activated then i won't. I don't think it is that much of a stretch for a any user to click on the Show button. Maybe i am overestimating people's common sense?

Unless you object i will add in the milhist generic navbox template but without the compressed feature: Woodym555 21:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

v • d • e First Sea Lords of the Royal Navy The Earl Howe • Sir Peter Parker • Prince William, Duke of Clarence • Sir George Cockburn • Sir Thomas Hardy • The Hon. George Heneage Dundas • Charles Adam • Sir George Cockburn • Sir Charles Adam • Sir George Cockburn • Sir William Parker • Sir Charles Adam • James Whitley Deans Dundas • The Hon. Maurice FitzHardinge Berkeley • Hyde Parker • The Hon. Maurice FitzHardinge Berkeley • The Hon. Sir Richard Saunders Dundas • William Fanshawe Martin • The Hon. Sir Richard Saunders Dundas • The Hon. Sir Frederick Grey • Sir Sydney Dacres • Sir Alexander Milne • Sir Sydney Dacres • Sir Hastings Yelverton • George Wellesley • Sir Astley Cooper Key • Sir Arthur Acland Hood • Lord John Hay • Sir Arthur Acland Hood • Sir R. Vesey Hamilton • Sir Anthony Hoskins • Sir Frederick Richards • Lord Walter Kerr • Sir John A. Fisher • Sir Arthur Knyvet Wilson • Sir Francis Bridgeman • Prince Louis of Battenberg • The Lord Fisher • Sir Henry Jackson • Sir John Jellicoe • Sir Rosslyn Wemyss • The Earl Beatty • Sir Charles Madden, Bt • Sir Frederick Field • The Lord Chatfield • Sir Roger Backhouse • Sir Dudley Pound • The Viscount Cunningham of Hyndhope • Sir John Cunningham • The Lord Fraser of North Cape • Sir Rhoderick McGrigor • The Earl Mountbatten of Burma • Sir Charles Lambe • Sir Caspar John • Sir David Luce • Sir Varyl Begg • Sir Michael Le Fanu • Sir Peter Hill-Norton • Sir Michael Pollock • Sir Edward Ashmore • Sir Terence Lewin • Sir Henry Leach • Sir John Fieldhouse • Sir William Staveley • Sir Julian Oswald • Sir Benjamin Bathurst • Sir Jock Slater • Sir Michael Boyce • Sir Nigel Essenhigh • Sir Alan West • Sir Jonathon Band •

• I have no objection to your adding in the milhist generic navbox template but without the compressed feature.
• And yes, you are overestimating people's "common sense" (including mine)--Toddy1 22:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Compressed feature

Here is an example of the compressed feature when activated:

v • d • e First Sea Lords of the Royal Navy The Earl Howe • Sir Peter Parker • Prince William, Duke of Clarence • Sir George Cockburn • Sir Thomas Hardy • The Hon. George Heneage Dundas • Charles Adam • Sir George Cockburn • Sir Charles Adam • Sir George Cockburn • Sir William Parker • Sir Charles Adam • James Whitley Deans Dundas • The Hon. Maurice FitzHardinge Berkeley • Hyde Parker • The Hon. Maurice FitzHardinge Berkeley • The Hon. Sir Richard Saunders Dundas • William Fanshawe Martin • The Hon. Sir Richard Saunders Dundas • The Hon. Sir Frederick Grey • Sir Sydney Dacres • Sir Alexander Milne • Sir Sydney Dacres • Sir Hastings Yelverton • George Wellesley • Sir Astley Cooper Key • Sir Arthur Acland Hood • Lord John Hay • Sir Arthur Acland Hood • Sir R. Vesey Hamilton • Sir Anthony Hoskins • Sir Frederick Richards • Lord Walter Kerr • Sir John A. Fisher • Sir Arthur Knyvet Wilson • Sir Francis Bridgeman • Prince Louis of Battenberg • The Lord Fisher • Sir Henry Jackson • Sir John Jellicoe • Sir Rosslyn Wemyss • The Earl Beatty • Sir Charles Madden, Bt • Sir Frederick Field • The Lord Chatfield • Sir Roger Backhouse • Sir Dudley Pound • The Viscount Cunningham of Hyndhope • Sir John Cunningham • The Lord Fraser of North Cape • Sir Rhoderick McGrigor • The Earl Mountbatten of Burma • Sir Charles Lambe • Sir Caspar John • Sir David Luce • Sir Varyl Begg • Sir Michael Le Fanu • Sir Peter Hill-Norton • Sir Michael Pollock • Sir Edward Ashmore • Sir Terence Lewin • Sir Henry Leach • Sir John Fieldhouse • Sir William Staveley • Sir Julian Oswald • Sir Benjamin Bathurst • Sir Jock Slater • Sir Michael Boyce • Sir Nigel Essenhigh • Sir Alan West • Sir Jonathon Band •

I personally think this is more appropriate in terms of space. It is a large navbox and is unseemly at the bottom of a long article such as Andrew Cunningham, 1st Viscount Cunningham of Hyndhope. What do other people think? Thanks Woodym555 22:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC)