Talk:First-wave feminism

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[edit] Definition

Is the term "first-wave feminism" really only used to describe the movements in the U.S. and the U.K? What do we call the women's movement in Germany at the time? ntennis 00:24, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

My understanding was that "First wave feminism" is used to retroactively refer to most/all nineteenth century 'feminist' movements.

It's not what they called themselves, of course. There is no universal terminology that "first wave" or "second wave" or "third wave" is a part of - it's as valid as you make it.

So, yes, if you want it to, "First-wave Feminism" can apply both to the American movements, the British, the Australian, the German, the French, and the movements across the rest of Europe as well.

I think this article is definitely too US-centric, and needs a good dose of history (to compare and contrast) from other parts of the world as well. If you have some German information to contribute, go ahead. --Dissembly 4:36pm Tuesday 7th March 2006

[edit] Australia

• Davidson, Dianne, Women on the warpath : feminists of the first wave, University of Western Australia Press, Nedlands, WA, 1997.

Australian women were also granted suffrage in South Australia 1861(part) and 1894(full). See also, Bessie Rischbieth. Is there a feminist project? ☻ Fred|☝ discussion|✍ contributions 12:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abortion

I'm removing the following text for the moment:

Both Stanton and Anthony believed that abortion was an imposition of the patriarchy upon women and that if decisions about abortion were placed into the hands of women, it would happen far less often (or cease entirely):

Much as I deplore the horrible crime of child-murder, earnestly as I desire its suppression, I cannot believe that such a law would have the desired effect. It seems to me to be only mowing off the top of the noxious weed, while the root remains. We want prevention, not merely punishment. We must reach the root of the evil, and destroy it.

− Susan B. Anthony, The Revolution, 1869.

For Anthony and Stanton, the root of the evil was men's political control over women through marriage, family and property laws as well as social control through the popularized notion of true "womanliness."

This text appears as a non sequiter. It would make sense only in the context of discussing abortion and contraception as issues for first-wave feminism. It's my understanding that, despite the fact that women like Stanton and Anthony supported it, legalised abortion was not a major rallying point for first-wave feminists, because 1) at the time, it was considered too radical and politically dangerous and 2) the first-wavers were divided on the issue. However, I don't know enough of the history to write this myself.

Speaking of context, it strikes me as a peculiar omission not to mention that Anthony is obviously arguing against an anti-abortion law in the quote.

I also dislike that there is so much attention to abortion in the text compared to other goals of the first wave. It's an important issue, and the position put forth in the quote is quite interesting. But, come on! If we're going to investigate the issues, let's at least give equal space to access to education and contraception, voting and property rights, divorce, abolition.... As a feminist I have strong opinions about abortion, but it does not define the movement, especially in the era in question.

208.120.219.31 23:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)SLH

I have taken two liberties, one to block quote the removed text in the above statement. The second was to undo the removal. I will restore it, however, the problem lies in the lack of development in this article. The text and quote may resemble something given to support an explanation of the abortion issue, as it relates to 'first wave', but this short article lacks the context for its presentation. In contrast to the view given above, my own understanding is that legislation such as this, or the Contagious Diseases Acts (1864), were to so significantly impact on the health and welfare on Women (and children), that a notable current or goal emerged. Vociferous opponents of these policies presented them as systematic or social practices that impacted directly on health, or led to higher rates of infant and adult mortality. It remained a foundation goal of some feminist organisations, if not the sole aim. It was 'radical and politically dangerous', it would more likely be expounded outside of the conservative movement or by those with less ambitious goals. The frequent overlap of the association's membership would seen opponents seated at the same table. The issue remained important throughout the history of the feminism and was indisputably divisive. I suppose I should provide some citation for this :P ☻ Fred|☝ discussion|✍ contributions 09:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)