Talk:Fire Temple of Baku

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikiproject_Hinduism This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Hinduism. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
WikiProject Azerbaijan This article is part of WikiProject Azerbaijan, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Azerbaijan-related topics. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of objectives.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.


I will more discussion, references and some photographs here.

Also we need a page on Hindu temples of Kabul.

[edit] is this a Hindu temple?

?--Dangerous-Boy 18:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


its a zoroastrian temple.Khosrow II 22:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

The fire temple at Baku really is a Hindu temple. Just because the name means fire temple, doesn't mean that that all fire temples are Zoroastrian. As I noted in my comment, which you appear to have missed (along with the article itself), the cues all point to Vedic religion. If the Fire Temple at Baku were really Zoroastrian it would be the only one of its kind (that is not fed by wood). ps: I'm a Zoroastrian myself. :) -- Fullstop 16:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

so are you a parsi? ok, i'll take your word for it for now ;) Khosrow II 16:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Kosrow, have you looked at the links referred to by the article? Such as:

There are some nice tableaux pictures from the museum in the above mentioned link. -- Fullstop 16:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I said i'd take your word for it, you can correct the article. :) so i assume you are a parsi?Khosrow II 16:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Khosrow, why did you revert again? I thought we had settled the affair. -- Fullstop 11:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed Hindu temple or of related religion. Since vedic symbols and swastika are present it maybe related to Jainism (?). Last monk died there in 1880, and the sight was disused.However, the temple site is old and was referred to as Atashgah. Hindu traders built temple there in 1740s under Baku Khanate. I am sure that there was something before that, since the fire was there!abdulnr 22:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Historical docs prove it was a Mandir.Bakaman Bakatalk 04:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wow

Have to say, made my way here by chance and I'm very surprised to find that this template contains inscriptions from the Adi Granth (see [1])! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 21:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Most of the Hindu traders were from Lahore and Multan so many of our Sikh brethren must have came as well.Bakaman Bakatalk 03:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just a question.

This is an excellent article. But I'm confused about one thing.

I just saw a BBC feature Around the World in 80 Treasures. (Wikipedia episode description here.) The host said the Fire Temple of Baku, or perhaps the site--I don't remember his exact words, was important to the genesis of Zoroastrianism.

But (during one of the too rare occasions when the camera was filming the structure rather than the host) I saw an inscription over the front entrance that looked a lot like the Jain swastika. Having never heard of the temple I looked it up.

On the one side, there's local legend, as mentioned by the article here. I'm extremely sceptical of claims that Zoroaster personally lived in the area. And other statements don't really strike me one way or the other. (E.g., "[Zoroaster']s idea to use fire as a metaphor for the mysteries of God probably came from witnessing the spontaneous flames that rise so eerily from Azerbaijan's Absheron Peninsula." [[2]])

On the other side, I found what's here.

Local legend associates the temple at Surakhany with the Fire temples of Zoroastrianism, but this is presumably based on a misunderstanding of the term Atashgah ... 'place of fire' in Persian, but in Zoroastrianism is the technical term for the altar-like repository for a sacred wood-fire or for the protected innermost sanctum where that fire altar stands (but not of the greater building around it).
... [a pre-1780s] Zoroastrian place of worship cannot be ruled out, but there is no evidence to suggest [it]. The use of natural gas is not in accord with Zoroastrian ritual use.

[Emphasis added.] Supported by a comment on this talk page that:

If the Fire Temple at Baku were really Zoroastrian it would be the only one of its kind (that is not fed by wood).

Well, the BBC TV programme did not impress me, and it wouldn't be difficult to persuade me it was full of false information. OTOH, usually there's some kernel of truth in such folklore. But not always, and though I'm disinclined to think the tourist boards made the whole thing up based on a single word language collision, I have no knowledge to dispute the claim of "no evidence." (Except to point out that one Farroukh Isfandzadeh, quoted on the page where the cited abstract resides, seems to think he has some evidence.)

Still, one bit of the logic here troubles me. Wouldn't the uniqueness of the site explain the uniqueness of the temple's fire source, that is, let's say:

1. An ancient traveller's religion views fire as a divine symbol. The temples of his religion house sacred wood fires.

2. There are only a tiny handful of naturally occurring "eternal fires" in the world. These fires are caused by natural gas escaping through vents from within the earth.

3. Our hero described in (1) happens upon the natural phenomenon described in (2). How does he react?

a) Wow. This is cool. A fire that burns eternally unattended? This must be indeed holy ground. I wish God would bless my temple back home with an eternal fire like this one! But I've never heard of such a thing outside legend. Let's build a temple. And I will continue to help tend my own sacred wood fire back home--with renewed vigour after seeing this miracle.

or:

b) Pfui. Sacred fires are made of wood. This is [some ancient word describing natural gas as a familiar everyday substance].

If I'm reading the argument correctly, then, to me, that particular bit reads less compelling than the rest. *shrug*

Snakesteuben (talk) 07:35, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

The picture in the minds of the locals would have been molded by what they have heard from their polemicists, i.e. the usual "fire-worshiper" cruft. Simultaneously, they would have known nothing of Hinduism, and would have had no alternative explanation for the strange people hanging about the place.
Of course, the erroneous conclusions can only be reached when nothing is actually known of the role fire and water play in Zoroastrianism, or how "fire" temples work, or that scripture mandates the burning of wood (particular kinds of wood), or the obsession with ritual purity etc.
They would have been equally unaware that a Zoroastrian temple cannot be on the top of an elevation since water--unlike gas--is heavier than air (it would indeed be miraculous to find a stream of water running uphill, which--alas--is not the case at Baku). The notion that fire itself is exalted in Zoroastrianism is about as simplistic as the notion that Christmas-tree lights, unleavened bread and wine are exalted in Christianity, or that seven/nine candles are exalted in Judaism, or that black rocks are exalted in Islam.
Unbound by any practical considerations, the fantasy can then also be freely anachronistic. Like that tourism webpage projection, which would be no less absurd if it said Christ took photos of the crucifix hanging in the Canterbury cathedral.
Its all part of the region's tourist-oriented "ancient Zoroastrian heritage" sales pitch (can be found on WP as well, e.g. the synthesis here and here). Although the identification with Zoroastrianism may have once been out of ignorance, in our day and age it is quite obviously intentionally misleading. Like the picture of the sadhu on that webpage, which is actually a photo of a tableau-figure from the museum in Baku, and which is there accompanied by an explanation of Hindu ascetics. (btw: what use would a monastery be to a religion like Zoroastrianism that has no monks/ascetics?)
-- 16:33, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

(Answer below my first signature posted by Fullstop (talk). I forget to sign things all the time myself! Snakesteuben (talk) 17:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC))


Wow. That was fast. Thank you very much for your answer. Snakesteuben (talk) 17:50, 16 March 2008 (UTC)