Talk:Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu

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[edit] Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War being represented in Super Smash Bros. Brawl

I have firmly requested that Ayra and Sigurd make an appearance as one of the contenders in the upcoming Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I object to having the characters from the second half of Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War to appear as one of the contenters. The characters of the first half of Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War will work better with Super Smash Bros. Brawl than those of the second half. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 05:45, 21 May 2005 (UTC).


are you kidding? this isn't the place to share requests. as for editors, I think a sentence should be added noting it was the last game ever published for SNES

Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 was the last game published for the SNES. It was the midquel to Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu. For that request, you may call it a speculation. Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu representation in a Super Smash Bros. is also controversial, for one thing, because it spans two generations.
You've never explained how exactly that is controversial...
There is some speculation that Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War will be represented in Super Smash Bros. Brawl some how. It is probably speculated mostly by English-speaking gamers. DarkTwilkitri thinks that I am the only one speculating such representation, but I am actually not. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 08:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
You are, at the least, the only highly visible person 'speculating' it. Good to see you've changed your tack to it being represented 'somehow' instead of having playable characters, it is much more likely that there may be at least one statuette from the game than a playable character in the game (assuming they're going to have another trophy gallery in the next one). In any case, it's not 'speculation', it's 'wishful thinking'. --Dark Twilkitri 14:12, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
However, Sigurd was originally planned to be developed into the Super Smash Bros. Melee roster, but he was dropped in favor of Roy. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 01:03, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Where did you get that information? SSBM's Japanese site doesn't mention anything about it, and they go very in depth about some character choices, like how Ganondorf was chosen only because his body had similar proportions to Captain Falcon's. NeonZ 07:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War is said to be the most successful Fire Emblem game in Japan, as mentioned in the official English Fire Emblem site. However, it was not in anyway represented or mentioned in SSBM, possibly because of development time constraints, and the statuette feature consumed too much development time. On a side note, I changed the subtitle of this discussion from implying characters appearing in SSBR to implying general representation of the game in SSBR. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 00:12, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
There are specific reasons for both Marth and Roy being in the game, and reasons for why Sigurd would not have appeared. For example, Marth was in because he is the original Fire Emblem hero, he has been in two games, and was in the short-lived anime (with the same voice actor, by the way). Roy was in primarily to promote the upcoming Fire Emblem: Sword of Seals (which at the time still had a chance of appearing outside of Japan). Being a character who didn't exist at the time, presumably putting him in would be more work than implimenting Sigurd. As for Sigurd, we never see him fight off his horse, and if he did he would be far too similar to Marth, in both appearance and presumably moveset (no flaming sword, for instance). Not only that, but he was only the main hero for half of the game. As far as I know, there was no intention of including Sigurd into the roster of the game, although appearing as a trophy could have been likely. Unfortunately, other than Marth and Roy, nothing from Fire Emblem appears in trophy form. Of course, there's always a chance Sigurd may be in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but this is true of many other characters. Speculating simply based on popularity alone is not sensible - there are many other factors involved in game design. Fyxe 12:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Most American Fire Emblem fans do not know about Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War. The horse situation can be corrected by bringing back the character entrance sequence feature from the original Super Smash Bros. game. Also, you should not forget that Lyndis has a big chance of being in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, although only the first ten chapters comprise her tale and that Eliwood's tale is the main story and Hector's tale is the alternate main story. Like I said to Xubelox, popularity counts more than actual story importance. Fynal from GameFAQs, who influenced me to think about boycotting Super Smash Bros. Brawl, even told me, "Storyline has nothing to do with being in Super Smash Bros.", but he is known to make contradictory posts. Unoriginality and being an overpowered clone of an earlier character will count against being in a Super Smash Bros. game, as in the case of Celice. Although not stated in the official Japanese site (the Japanese site does not mention characters who did not appear in the game whether as playable characters or statuettes), it has been said that Sigurd was originally planned to be in Super Smash Bros. Melee with an original moveset, but he was cut from the game, and Roy was made playable instead. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 06:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Tedius, so far the only instance where popularity has counted for more than story importance in Smash Bros has been with Pokemon. Every other character was the most important in their respective game. And as for Lyndis having a good chance in Brawl...what is that based off of? Her popularity and hearing people on message boards say they want her. So essentially your logic for why Lyndis has a good chance of being in has the same flaw as your logic for Sigurd being in. And what are you basing Celice being an unoriginal and overpowered clone off of? Absolutely nothing other than your assumptions and poor logic. The fact is, we don't know how any character will turn out. I bet we all would have thought Mewtwo would be overpowered. Now look at him. And still, you refuse to list the source of where you heard Sigurd was supposed to be in. "It has been said" is not a very good source. To top that off, Sakurai has said on Toukoken (from the official site) that they are not going to put much emphasis on Japan-Only characters. So why would they choose Sigurd, a Japan only character to represent Fire Emblem when they could easily pick a character familiar to all regions, especially seeing as how the last 3 (and soon to be 4) FE games were released outside Japan? In any case, this isn't a forum, and I'm afraid if you want to continue adding notes to articles related to Sigurd about him being "nominated" for SSBB, you'll need a legitimate source. Xubelox 14:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Historically, storyline importance was a significant value for being playable in Super Smash Bros. at the time of Super Smash Bros. Melee. Nowaday, storyline importance is not everything for being playable in a future Super Smash Bros. game. Lyndis is preferred over Hector and Eliwood, and Fire Emblem Lords are usually male. If I were to find the source where I heard Sigurd was supposed to be in Melee, it would most likely be in Japanese. Storywise, contrary to what you (Xubelox) said at the GameFAQs board, Celice is no more important than Sigurd just as Book 2 of Fire Emblem: Monshou no Nazo is no more important than Book 1 of that game, and he would be more likely to bring spoilers for Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War with him to Super Smash Bros. Super Smash Bros. character biographies are not supposed to tell what happens last in an original game without telling what happens first in that game. Marth was playable in Melee upon Japan's requests, and because he was the first of the Lord class. His trophy description did not state what happened at the end of Fire Emblem: Monshou no Nazo Book 2, and it is based on Book 1. In fact, Sakurai dreamed of having Sigurd, not Celice, playable in the Super Smash Bros. series. I hope Sakurai does confirm Sigurd to be playable in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and not Lip of Panel de Pon who is also a Japan-only character. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 03:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] People and Places

Is it really necessary to mention which area people come from every single time they're mentioned?

[edit] Japanese/English Translators needed

I suggest that the Japanese Wikipedia article be used and have a translator to retrieve information from that Japanese Wikipedia article. For one thing, the game was marketed exclusively in Japan. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 06:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese Title?

As of right now, this game, the 4th in the Fire Emblem series, has no official English title. Even though Genealogy of the Holy War is the generally accepted fan translation of the title, I suggest that this article be moved to Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu simply because 1) it's "more" correct than a fan translation, perse and 2) the other untranslated Fire Emblem games are at their Japanese titles. Axem Titanium 02:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have the Original Soundtrack from the game. The Obi strip has the title in Japanese characters. But the front of the CD case has: Fire Emblem Genealogy of Holy-War Original Sound version. [1] I suppose that is the ‘official English title’ if there is one. --Tyrfing 16:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
If it's going to be used, I think "the" should be in the title (as in Genealogy of the Holy War), just so that the title makes sense. The older games have a nasty habit of being inconsistent with English names though. Aveyn Knight 19:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Story section

Since there's already a very long "Fire Emblem Holy War story" article created, I don't see the need for such a detailed story section.

The last two paragraphs are unneed, we could summerize it as, for example : "From now on, with a small party of retainers and friends he gathered, Sigurd goes to Edin's rescue. This was the very beginning of a succession of events that would change his destiny, as well as his descent, and Jugdral's history itself...".

I suggest to do a short synopsis of the game's story instead of the current entry in the Story section. --AceNoctali 17:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Virtual console release

The possibility of an English release on the virtual console is simply that; a possibility. And at this time, there is really no evidence that it will happen and is simply speculation. I mean, it's also possible that this game might contain subliminal messages of Satanism, but it's really not worth it to add that either. Xubelox 04:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

One localization problem is that Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War contains a reference to incest. Alvis and Diadora were halfsiblings. Incest was used to resurrect the dark lord Loputousu. Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones might also contain subliminal messages of Satanism. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 06:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Um, I just threw the Satanism thing out there as a random example of speculation not worth noting off the top of my head, not because I actually thought there were parrallels to it in the FE universe. Xubelox 14:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
It has been cited that NOA executive George Harrison has commented that there is a possibility that in the future, Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu and other Japan-only SNES games will be localized to the U.S. Virtual Console. If Nintendo of America elects to localize this game to the U.S. Virtual Console, the confirmation will be mentioned in the article, and the title of this article may be changed to the official Western title. The names of the characters may also be changed. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 20:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable sources?

Because Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu was marketed exclusively in Japan, most reliable sources involving the game are written in Japanese. It is recommended that you have good enough knowledge of Japanese in order to cite the sources.Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 22:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Hello. I'm on "What links here" patrol from the Super Smash Bros. Brawl article. Currently the only characters mentioned in the Brawl article are ones who have appeared in the trailers, plus a short mention of Sonic since Nintendo actually has contacted Sega about including him, and this statement is sourced. The Fire Emblem series is mentioned, but only in the context of a new level possibly being from one of the games in the series and in reference to the possibility of more Japan-only characters being included in Brawl.

Unless some sources are provided for the Smash Bros.-related claims made about Siguard in this article, I'm going to remove that section after a week from today. --Sparky Lurkdragon 20:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Section removed. --Sparky Lurkdragon 15:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If there are any sources that back up those claims, they are most likely in Japanese. If Sigurd is confirmed to be in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, that should be mentioned in the article. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 13:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

And he hasn't been, so it doesn't need to be mentioned at this point in time. :) --Sparky Lurkdragon 05:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
If Masahiro Sakurai elects to have a character or characters from Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu to be playable in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, then that should be mentioned in the Seisen no Keifu article. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 20:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Sakurai has previously stated that he'd like to shy away from Japan-specific playable characters unless the demand for a particular character is too strong to ignore. That being the case, if any Fire Emblem characters appear in SSBB, they will likely be either returning characters Marth and/or Roy, or a character from one of the internationally released titles. Wishful thinking aside, I think we have a better chance of an Ouendan character making it in as a playable character than anyone from the Seisen no Keifu cast.--Hailinel 17:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
It has been said that Sakurai is dreaming of having Sigurd playable in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Lip from Panel de Pon, whom I do not want, is also a Japan-specific character. Ouendan is an obscure Japan-only game, although it was released only two years ago. It is not as familiar outside Japan as Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu. Also, according to George Harrison, Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu may be localized to the U.S. Virtual Console service, probably sometime between the release of Super Smash Bros. Brawl and the end of the Wii's lifecycle. With the success of Fire Emblem outside Japan, Sakurai is not against Seisen no Keifu characters being playable in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 04:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fan Translation

Is "In various emulations of the game, the script mostly conforms to British English (i.e., it features spellings of words used in every English-speaking country but the U.S.), with U.S. spelling being used only ocassionally.

  • Consider armour (not armor), honour (not honor), mum (not mom) et al. However, the American rendition of the word “defense” is used.
  • This predominantly British English sets it aside from most other (officially and unofficially) translated Fire Emblem games, which typically feature scripts containing only American spelling."

Needed? Really Its about an unoffical fan translation and could be simply becuase it was from British authors. Anyone else agree? Thedarksage 01:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pairing/Relationship system?

Although I haven't played this game, the pairing system in Seisen no Keifu is, to my understanding, extremely important in terms of gameplay, as the pairs created in the first generation determine abilities/equipment in the second generation. Yet, the article barely makes mention of this at all despite its uniqueness to the series. Someone knowledgeable should add information on this in detail.--Hailinel 05:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I added some things, which I think should be mentioned. However I think more can be added, but it restricted being grouped together with the other gameplay features. Would a seperate section on the Love system be a good idea? Aveyn Knight 18:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Storyline

I am aware that RobJ1981 has been challenging the sub-article Fire Emblem Holy War Story. This is disapponting to me. It will result in loss of information on a Japan-only game. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 23:05, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Move it to a gaming Wikia. Somewhere where it's not policy violating. Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Seisen no Keifu.jpg

Image:Seisen no Keifu.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I support a merge, and quickly, because this article is just a plot summary, something Wikipedia is not. --Haemo 21:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

If you merge the story article, the main article may end up being too long. I object to merging the story article, because they may force purge of information. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 03:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
A merge is inappropriate. If an article is poor, then clean it up — don't merge it. It's like saying that Great Britain should be merged with Europe if the article was porrly written. Ashnard Talk Contribs 13:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
No it isn't. The guidelines for writing about real world locations are quite different than the ones for writing about fictional works. Cited from WP:NOT#INFO- Wikipedia articles on published works (such as fictional stories) should contain real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance, not solely a detailed summary of that work's plot. A brief plot summary may be appropriate as an aspect of a larger topic. See Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). Onikage725 21:40, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
This is rediculous. The article has its own notability. My analogy wasn't comparing Wiki guidelines, it meant "an article's quality isn't justification for whether it should be merged or not". What's the problem? Ashnard Talk Contribs 22:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Are you talking about Jugdral or the game?? Kariteh 22:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not saying I support a merge (merged with what?) I'm just saying that Haemo has a point about excessive plot information. It's the bane of damn near every article on a fictional subject on this site. Onikage725 23:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I never disputed that, just he's support for a merge. We're talking about the game, by the way. Ashnard Talk Contribs 23:45, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I get that, but I mean merge to where? The parent series article? Onikage725 23:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)