Talk:Fiore dei Liberi
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I am sorry, but I know of no evidence that Fiore was Liechtenauer's student. A superficial similarity of their fencing style is not a conclusive argument, they may, after all, have studied by a related set of masters without having come in direct contact. As far as terminology and organization of their techniques is concerned, there are few similarities. If you want to refer to the opinion that Fiore was Lichtenauer's student, you'd need to cite somebody who suggested that. dab (ᛏ) 08:50, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
- The similarities are more than just "superficial". In addition, in order to make Fiore work properly, you have to use cuts and other techniques not found in his manual (ones that only come from German manuals). This is even more apparent when you read through Vadi (who is basically a rehash of Fiore); his coloring of the long and short edges makes the necesity of such cuts obvious. There is also linguistic and other evidence that I could get into. However, I'm not prepared to defend this point adequately at this time, so I'll let your edit stand. (As for citing someone, writing a book on the topic is one of my long-term goals.) Jaerom Darkwind (Talk) 05:28, 18 November 2005 (MST)
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- I don't think we're in disagreement there. My point is just that similarity in technique is not sufficient proof. Identical problems will lead to identical solutions. Convincing evidence would be related to terminology. The terminology is strikingly different. There is the 'porta ferra', which is apparently a pre-Liechtenauer term and is precisely not part of Liechtenauer's system of guards. The remaining terminology of Liechtenauer's is not reflected in Italian. Liechtenauer has Romanic terms, duplieren and mutieren which are apparently influenced by his Italian sources, and yet I don't imagine Liechtenauer as Fiore's student because of that. dab (ᛏ) 13:59, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
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- Similarity in technique will never be sufficient proof. We have to keep in mind the difference between correlations and assoications. The only proof will be a historical document clearly stating that that Fiore was a student of Liechtenauer.Ranp 22:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] A book - reference?
I have a copy of "Teaching & Interpreting Historical Swordsmanship", edited by Brian R. Price, my teacher of the art. I haven't dove into it yet, but do you think it would help any of the articles relating to this topic? Colonel Marksman 18:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Broken link and WTF with the "schools"
"Knights of the Wild Rose - Fiore de Liberi's Flos Duellatorum" is a dead link. I'll remove it in a week or so unless anyone can find it's new home and fix it. The Knights of the Wild Rose also appear to be dead, as they can not be found anywhere online anymore.
Also,what is up with Schola Gladitoria and Schola St. George trying to outdo each other's external links... bold... "The Mighty" ....I'm afraid if this silliness doesn't end that all links to training wil be tossed. Please folks.... just list them without any flourish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Master at Arms (talk • contribs) 23:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC).
The Knights of the Wild Rose is unfortunately defunct, along with their hosting of the Pissani-Dossi literal translation. Some other places are considering hosting it, which can be added later. For now though, the Wild Rose folks are not there to be linked to, so I have removed the links. 38.98.155.132 21:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
