Talk:Fionn mac Cumhaill

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Can anybody add on the alternate spellings of his name as redirects to this site. Ie. Finn Mac Cumhail, Finn Mac Cool, Fingal, Finn MacCool, Fion Mac Cumhail, etc.

I've just done that; thanks for asking. (I came to this page after looking for Finn MacCumhail]; that was how the Dropkick Murphys spelled it.) However, I didn't redirect Fingal here; that article is about a county in Ireland. --Idont Havaname 07:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Americanization?

In a travel map I purchased, sponsored by ENCO in 1960, it describes an Americanized tale of the giant Finn MacCool (sic). In this version he was an engineer who "wanted to flatten the Rockies to make coast-to-cost travel easier." Finding opposition, he instead created the Grand Canyon. Kevingarcia 07:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Granted I could be wrong but I think you may have Finn confused with the american legend Paul Bunyan. Ultratone85 14:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death?

Didn't Finn McCool die strapped to a rock, not unlike Prometheus?--70.50.77.34 02:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

That was Cuchullain. --Cúchullain t/c 06:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Bisexuality

Earlier this morning (6-12-06), Finn was mentioned as being bisexual. Though this is removed, was that simply spam, or was there a real basis to that, though I have never heard of Finn ever being said as bisexual.

It was just vandalism, that's why it was taken out. It happens quite a bit around here.--Cúchullain t/c 23:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is the mac lower case?

Why is the mac in "mac cumhail" in lowercase? While I'm fully aware that mac and ua were not always capitalised in earlier forms of Irish, they now are. I think the naming of this article should reflect modern conventions in the spelling of Irish. --Damac 11:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If it was a surname, you'd be right, but it's not, it's a patronymic, literally Fionn son of Cumhal. If you wrote a name like that in English you wouldn't use a capital S for "son". Fionn mac Cumhail, where "mac Cumhail" means "son of Cumhal" and is not a modern surname, is the correct usage in modern Irish as much as in earlier Irish. --Nicknack009 17:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misspelling

The name Cumhal should be Cumhall. Irish is my own first language and I know for a fact that nobody writes "Fionn mac Cumhail" but "Fionn mac Cumhaill". All of the other "alternative versions" of his name are anglicised gobledgook. We should stick to what native Irish speakers actually use. Irish historically difrentiated between what are known as tense and lax nasals and labials, hense the double "l" in "Cumhall", genitive "Cumhaill" with corresponding palatalisation of final "l". An Muimhneach Machnamhach 11:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the article on your behalf... Robwingfield (talk) 14:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Surely on the English Wikipedia this shouldn't be an issue because the article should use the English name anyway. Any story I read or was read as a child all used the name Finn McCool. I understand that with actual people's names there is an argument (I believe it's standard practice) to use the Gaelic form of the name if that's what they use, but common sense on this one must suggest this article be moved to Finn McCool. (just see the above three sections!) beano 15:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation of name

I have added the pronunciation of the name by native Irish speakers using IPA symbols. Unfortunately, the symbol used to indicate palatalisation of consonants doesn't seem to be included in the fonts below. I suspect, though, that this a convention used solely by Irish linguists to indicate palatalisation v. velarisation. It would also be helpful if the pronunciation by Scottish Gaelic and Manx speakers could be included where those differ from the Irish. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 13:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I changed the pronunciation to the proper IPA symbols for Standard Irish based on the information on the Irish orthography page and added English. Unfortunately, I am not sure how to apply them to the other dialects.--Csladic 19:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fact versus fiction

I think we need to be clearer in differentiating fact from fiction. I came to this article hoping to learn about the historic Finn McCool and after a brief look at this article I'm having a hard time telling whether he actually was a real person at all. --P3d0 12:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

He wasn't. Fionn is entirely a character from legend. --Nicknack009 18:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cremaster 3

Is there some reason the reference to Cremaster 3 has been deleted twice? It was removed once about a year ago, and again on Jan. 24. I've added the reference back, but am not interested in quibbling over reverts. It's an easily verified reference, and Fionn mac Cumhaill makes a lengthy appearance in the film. It seems like something that should obviously be included here, so I'm baffled by the deletions. Anyone care to enlighten me? Eric.d.dixon 08:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What Kind of Salmon ?

The only kind of Salmon found in Ireland is the Atlantic Salmon, Salmo Salar. And as a fisherman and a McCool I've always been puzzled by the description of Finn's fish as a Salmon - because Salmon are a migratory species which only travel into freshwater to spawn [and die]. It would be much more likely that Finn would have caught a related species - the Brown Trout, Salmo Trutta. Large Brown Trout can often be long term residents of river pools, and top predators. As they grow larger and climb the food pyramid, they do indeed, in literal sense, ingest all the knowledge that swims down the river. And they're also very wary and very difficult to catch... That fish that Finn caught was a large, fat, Brown Trout.

Jimmccool 15:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)