Talk:Findlay, Ohio

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This article is supported by WikiProject Cities, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to cities, towns, and various other settlements on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, visit the project page. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. See comments for details. Low This article has been rated as low-importance on the priority scale. Ohio Portal Findlay, Ohio is part of WikiProject Ohio, which collaborates on Ohio-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to current discussions. B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. Comments: edit  · history  · watch  · purge Contents 1 WP:CITIES Assessment 2 Break the mold! 3 The University of Findlay 4 Notable Natives 5 Sex Offenders 6 Flood Section 7 Lynching [edit] WP:CITIES Assessment Just to explain my assessment here,... it's not exactly a real important assessment like WP:GA or WP:FA status or anything. It's mainly there to guide editors to see how well the article is progressing. I assessed this article as B-class, which is just above Start-class but not a Good article. The article as I see it is really borderline Start/B-class, but I gave it the benefit of the doubt and put B-class. There's still quite a bit of information missing, the trivia section needs to be removed (it's content should be integrated into other areas of the article). References are lacking, but not completely absent. Climate information should be added under geography. The sections on government, education, transportation, and arts and culture are completely absent. Most of the photos are kind of bland and nondescriptive; consider taking photos of the downtown area or main street, cultural attractions there, etc. So, yes, this article has quite a way to go before good article status - like I said, it's really borderline Start/B-class; but it's a good start, which is why I bumped it up instead of down. For more information on how to improve the article, editors might find the templates available at WP:CITIES helpful, as well as the good article criteria. The article was assessed on the WP:CITIES importance scale at 'low' based on the importance/priority scale for the wikiproject here. Full information on assessments for WikiProject Cities can be found here. Dr. Cash 17:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC) Suggested article edit guidelines: To help us prioritise our workload, and in readiness for Wikipedia:1.0, we need to assess our articles for Quality. If this article is Unassessed, please assess it. See the Article Classification for instructions. If you disagree with a rating, you can change it or discuss it at Article Classification. After assessing this article's quality, please make sure it to add it to the Lists at Article Classification, following the grading scheme detailed there.

[edit] Break the mold!

This article could be expanded quite a bit, to break away from the dry census-laden articles that define most communities in Ohio on Wikipedia. For ideas on how possibly to expand it, look at what's been done with articles at Toledo, Ohio; Bellefontaine, Ohio; and Streetsboro, Ohio. (No need to follow those articles exactly; feel free to be creative.) -- SwissCelt 03:46, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The University of Findlay

I think the University of Findlay should get more than a trivia mention here. Any takers? -- SwissCelt 06:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I think Owens has more communist spirit than FU. Take that!

[edit] Notable Natives

I added a Notable Natives section because Wikipedia:MoS discourages generic Trivia sections. -Oatmeal batman 20:44, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

(replacing to better match the mark metcalf article; i would venture to say that playing a large role in one of the most famous music videos ever made trumps 2 small seinfeld appearances)

On the subject of Mark Metcalf...

Seriously, does anyone other than our resident Bill & Ted head, VBDrummer, think that a Twisted Sister music video is still relevant? Especially considering that Mark Metcalf's role in the music video was the same as his aforementioned movie role (Neidermeyer).

Are we seriously comparing two music videos from the "hair band" era, to two episodes from the greatest TV show of all time? Check out a list of Seinfeld Awards.

--OilerBuck 17:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'll bite. I should have been more clear about just what in the Mark Metcalf I was trying to match; I decided to take items from the lead paragraph in the article, on the premise that the leading bits would be most notable or important. As for your above comment, I don't really like how close you came to ad hominem when you were referring to me. For the record, I'm not a big fan of the Bill and Ted movies, and if you're trying to equate me with their stoner/slacker stereotype, I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken (I also loathe hair metal, but that doesn't change the fact that the music video in question is sill famous). But back to the article, the main criterion I used here is this: only big Seinfeld fans would know The Maestro right off the bat, but even semi-casual music fans who grew up in the 1980s (and I'm not one of them) would know the music video in question. Simply put, yes, I do think that the music videos in this discussion are more notable than the Seinfeld episodes. Vbdrummer0 21:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I would argue against blindly inserting only information from the first paragraph of referenced pages. Not all pages on Wikipedia are well-formed, with a true introduction paragraph. The Mark Metcalf page is a great example of a page with good information but very average structure. In fact, I think it's reasonable to argue that the inclusion of the "Twisted Sister" music videos into the first paragraph of the Metcalf bio was primarily the product of an opportunity to segue from his most widely-known role, as Neidermeyer.

If the “first paragraph” argument was the only one you made, I would have no problem respectfully disagreeing. When you make an argument that implies that "Twisted Sister" has more influence on modern society than Jerry Seinfeld, however, I just can’t let that pass.

As someone who grew up in the 80’s, I never realized that Neidermeyer (Metcalf) played a part in ANY music video. That is due to the fact that these videos were released under a niche genre (heavy metal) and to a niche audience (early MTV fans) in 1984. Most of the audience, who would have been impacted by the videos, would probably already be familiar with him from “Animal House”. What percentage of individuals would you estimate know of Mark Metcalf ONLY as the guy who was on “I Wanna Rock” or “We’re Not Gonna Take It”?

Thanks to the magic of television syndication, a decade after it was released, “The Maestro” will be on television May 23rd, 2007 on TBS at 6:30. With an entire episode titled after and featuring the character that is played by Mark Metcalf, I think it’s reasonable to label him a significant part of the series (Tribbles on “Star Trek”, anyone?). Post the next time (in 2007) I can watch a “Twisted Sister” video on national TV and we’ll call this a draw.

When combined with “Animal House”, a reference to “Seinfeld” covers a wider audience than a reference to “Twisted Sister”. Because of the effects of audience overlap, I could even argue that a reference to his roles in “Buffy, The Vampire Slayer” would be more relevant than the music videos.--OilerBuck 12:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Moving off Metcalf, the article on Ray Harroun gives his birthplace as Spartansburg, Pennsylvania, which I assume is true, although I don't know. If it is, it might be a good idea to mention on the Findlay page that he wasn't born there, but later made his home there (or whatever the case is). I'd consider the heading "Notable natives" to refer to people born in Findlay. Maybe "Notable residents" would be more applicable? Vbdrummer0 17:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• I like residents better and cleaned up the section a bit. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 18:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I changed it, in light of no opposition to the idea. Vbdrummer0 17:28, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sex Offenders

Anyone have an opinion on the relevance of the mention of 50 sex offenders within the city limits? I don't think that's an unusually large amount, and if it is, it shouldve been mentioned in the article. I'm keen on removing it, personally, unless I'm missing something. -- Vbdrummer0 15:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Seems an unnecessary mention to me. My vote is for removal. -- Pepsi2786 08:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and comment it out for now. If people decide it should stay in, anyone's free to remove the tags. Vbdrummer0 15:53, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flood Section

I went through and made some minor edits on the flood section. Perhaps someone could increase it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.21.52.55 (talk) 08:28, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lynching

I just reverted the addition of a big block of text on a lynching in the 1890s, apparently added from the New York Times, see diff. While I do not doubt it happened, the blcok of text seemed very unencyclopedic - no context / intro, just the lynching (and some info on his crime told within the article). For an article that does not mention the Gas Boom in its history, this much on a lynching does not seem balanced - perhaps a sentence or two. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• The problem with Lynch Crimes is that Lynch Mobs - both the organized variety such as the Ku Klux Klan, and the unorganized variety like the ordinary Posse Comitatus groups - operated exactly like today's al Qaeda. That is, they were Secret Societies that operated - knowingly - beyond the law when they were raised in areas of the USA that already had organized law enforcement and justice operations. That being the case, they operated through fear and terror, and so people talked about their operations at the risk of their own lives. Reporters that went nosing around these groups in search of background or detail often dissapeared, and - if they were ever found - it was because the group wanted them found as a message to other reporters to stay away and mind their business. Even today, the information that can be found on the thousands of Lynchings that took place between the establishment of American newspeprs and the current day most often consists of not more than of a few column-inches of space in a single daily paper, often buried deep inside the paper instead of the front page. That said, it fell to the good offices of the NAACP and Tuskeege Institute to formally document - as best as possible - the number of lynchings that took place from the moment they formalized their decision, and the current day, and even they cannot aggree on the number of actual lynchings that have taken place, or the details therein. So far, there is only one publication from the popular press that even discusses the subject - 100 YEARS OF LYNCHINGS by Ralph Ginsburg, isbn 978-0-933121-18-8 and isbn 0-933121-08-0, and Project HAL (Historical American Lynching), which is an on-line data collection project designed to collect as much as possible on the subject for archival purposes. They started by copying the records at Tuskeege Institute, which includes the NAACP records, and they function much like Wikipedia does in that they welcome assistance from the public on the web.

NAACP DEFINITION OF LYNCHING

"Lynching" historically includes not only Southern lynching but frontier lynching and vigilantism nationwide and many labor-related incidents. Persons of any race or ethnicity and either gender may have been either perpetrators or victims of lynching.

What follows is the NAACP definition for including an incident in the inventory of lynchings:

• 1) There must be evidence that someone was killed;

• 2) The killing must have occurred illegally;

• 3) Three or more persons must have taken part in the killing; and

• 4) The killers must have claimed to be serving justice or tradition.

• Source: Project HAL

That said, I must ask you to restore the information because - after an intense search for the information from more than one source - I must report that the information I presented - which was modified only in re-wording it from a newspaper current event to one of historical significance, it remains the only original source. Indeed, the one reason why you may not have found it on-line is that I subscribe to the New York Times online archives, and thus have direct access to articles that date back to the 1850's that are not found otherwise beyond the first paragraph. SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) (talk) 13:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

First off, I am not disputing that this lynching took place and I am fine with including a sentence or two about it in the article. However, the large amount of text that was added had several problems with it. First and foremost, I believe it was a violation of WP:NPOV, see speicfically Wikipedia:Weight#Undue_weight, and I quote: An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject. Note that undue weight can be given in several ways, including, but not limited to, depth of detail, quantity of text, prominence of placement, and juxtaposition of statements. I think this should be part of the History section (not its own subsection) and suggest something like:

On March 31, 1892, the only known lynching in the history of Hancock County occurred when a mob of 1,000 men, many "respectable citizens", broke into the county jail in Findlay. They lynched Mr. Lytle, who had fatally injured his wife and two daughters with a hatchet the day before, by hanging him twice (first from the bridge, then a telegraph pole) and finally shooting his body over a dozen times.^[1]

What do you think? I am adding this to the history section for now. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• O.K., but I added an additional sentence that showed what the Law Enforcement had intended for the criminal, and how that was frustrated by the illegal action by the mob.SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) (talk) 19:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Part of this section doesn't quite make sense now. It talks of plans for the prisoner to be transported to a suburb then to Lima, but Findlay doesn't have any true suburbs even today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.189.241.2 (talk) 00:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)