Talk:Fightin' Texas Aggie Band/Archive01

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[edit] Size

This article gives two figures for the size of the band. In the intro, it says "approximately 300". Later in the article, it says "approximately 350". Could we settle on one or the other, ideally with a source, if possible? Thanks, Johntex\talk 06:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The official site says 350 - unfortunately the entire "Key Facts" section is a copyvio of that webpage, along with "Drill Rehearsal". I'm pulling them out. Jamoche 10:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Good catch Jamoche - thanks for looking into that. I'll put it on my to-do to make a paraphrase of that info, if no one beats me to it. Johntex\talk 10:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
OK - I re-wrote that section. I decided to leave it as a bulleted list because all the points are unrelated, so it didn't seem it would flow well as prose. I also left out a couple of the bullet points so as not to be taking the entire content. Feel free to re-write again as needed/desired. Johntex\talk 10:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aggie Band Show

Shouldn't we eliminate the "claims to be" in "claims to be the only college band with a weekly show?" This clearly isn't encyclopedic. It either is or isn't. I propose changing "claims to be" to "is" unless anyone can provide proof otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.17.129.22 (talk • contribs) 09:35, February 7, 2007

  • I propose it be removed unless it can be verfied. -- Upholder 16:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Please be more specific. What is "it" and why should it be removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.17.129.22 (talk • contribs) 10:59, February 7, 2007
  • You suggested that it be changed from "claims to be" to "is". I'm suggesting that the entire claim be removed unless it meets the Wikipedia standards of verifibility. -- Upholder 17:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Well, they have their own TV show. That is verifiable. It is the claim of both the University and the creators of the show that it is the only one with a weekly show devoted exclusively to the band. I believe that this meets the standards. The only way to "prove" that it is the only one is to check every other band and eliminate them. This is time-intensive and not practical. Since the claim is verifiable through a trustworthy source (a reputable university) and various 3rd party sources, I propose changing this to "is". Thoughts? Should anyone find another band with a TV show, I would be happy to either mention them and/or edit/remove this claim. [1] [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.17.129.22 (talk • contribs) 11:27, February 8, 2007
  • I originally thought that it was a claim to have a new field show every home game, and that it was the only college band to do that. It should be made clear in the article that it's talking about a Television show, not a field show. Your first reference is evidence of the claim, not the fact (but should be referenced in the article to support the verifibility that it is claimed).. the second is an assertion without any evidence. -- Upholder 18:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Sorry about the ambiguity. How about "is the only college band with a weekly television show."?
Fixed ambiguity BQZip01 17:00, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uniforms

I think the specified uniform should remain as Texas A&M Corps of Cadets. This is the specific uniform they wear. If anyone wishes to revert the change to leaving it blank, please explain why

The uniform section is not to describe who wears them. It's for a specific description of what the uniforms look like (see Hawkeye Marching Band, Spirit of Troy). Leaving it blank is better than filling in something that isn't even a description of them and allows a casual editor more familiar with the band than you or me to add a more "official" description of them. -Texink 20:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, but I think it should be noted that they wear the uniform of the Corps of Cadets. It shouldn't be left blank simply because other bands have a different description. how about "US Army circa WWI-WWII?"BQZip01 17:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
It may be difficult to state what specific uniform they are wearing for the game. They use 5 major types of uniforms (midnights, Class A Winter, Class A Summer, Class B Summer, and Battle Dress Uniform). Describing them all in the limited space is not practical. Perhaps a link to the Corps of Cadets uniforms? Hmmm, there isn't even a website dedicated to this. Help?BQZip01 17:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I created a description of all of the Uniforms on the Corps of Cadets page and linked to it. BQZip01 19:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Practice

Currently we're practicing from around 620-720 in the morning so i dont think that putting in 2-3 hours on weekdays is accurate. I'm going to change it.

  1. Please get a user name so we can chat and make sure we get the latest and greatest on the Qs. My brother was the B-Battery Commander and I was the Air Force Liaison Officer for the Band.
  2. Are you referring to the Spring Semester or are you referring to the Fall Semester? That makes a huge difference in my book. If you are referring to the Fall Semester, then WOW have they cut down on practice times dramatically since I was there. We used to get up at 0600 (no earlier for fish and only 0555 for pissheads), get dressed, eat breakfast, and be at drill by 0620 (+/- 5 minutes). We'd stay until 0850 or 0915, depending on the academic schedules of each day of the week. Sometimes we'd stay later and practice even without people who had to go to their next class.
  3. Please don't make the change just yet until we have a chance to discuss it. You also have to take into account the work that the bugle rank and drum majors do (they can easily spend up to 40 hours a week on a drill).
  4. Do you know about the computer program that is used by the directors to write the drills? Can you get source information regarding the override feature for being able to write the 4-way crossthrough. I'd like to cite it in the text of this document (The name of the instruction manual and the software would be sufficient). Maybe you could ask the drum majors?
BQZip01 19:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy delete nomination removal

I removed the speedy delete nomination as the article is about a highly visible University athletic band that has been recognized with the Sudler Trophy. I believe the nomination was made in bad faith and warned the user that added the template for vandalism. -- Upholder 15:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major expansion

I intend to expand this article drastically in the next few days and shoot for featured article status within a month. Below is a basic outline I intend to follow (number of paragraphs/picts in parenthesis).

  1. History (6-7/1-2)
  2. Cadet life (maybe intermingled with History...I dunno yet) (2-4/1-2)
  3. Composition (cadets only + uniforms, size, instrumentation, equipment used, positions [bugle rank, drum major, commander], etc.) (7-10/2-3)
  4. Practice, Drills, & Maneuvers (3-5/2-3) (an animated .gif of the countermarch would be greatly appreciated...if not, I'll make one)
  5. Awards, notable performances, +misc (1-3/1-2)

I'll incorporate all of the given trivia (and more) into this page. Anyone have any thoughts? — BQZip01 — talk 07:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fighting

"The origin of the name of the band started with the early drum majors of the band. The first student drum major was H.A. "California" Morse, but he did not last the year in his leadership role and was asked to leave the college because of fighting. In addition, the early drum majors were chosen in physical combat, with the best fighter being named to the coveted position, thus the name, Fightin' Texas Aggie Band, though the terminology has evolved to include the athletic teams, similar to the Fighting Illini or the Fighting Irish."

I found this a bit confusing. It looks like fighting is bad (got Morse kicked out of school) and fighting is good (earns coveted position). I didn't know how to clean it up since I'm not sure what the message is here. --Wordbuilder 15:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Y Done Fighting is neither "good" or "bad" in this context, but the tradition of fighting was incorporated into the name...I'll make that explicit in the article. Thanks. — BQZip01 — talk 21:29, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OldAg07 Suggestions

I respect the corps and love watching the band, but I know very little about it. so i am leaving it to your judgment about my suggestions. As for the article, it was well researched, and I liked it. Some "constructive criticism"

you probably need to mention what computer programs specifically. Are there modern computer programs that can compute the FTAB marches. - probably need to email the band director about that

N Not done The specific computer program used isn't mentioned anywhere I can find. In addition, the most modern computer program only allows it to work if the safeties are turned off and they allow for people to literally walk through one another (this had to be done to make the most recent version "work." Mind you, this is from my experiences in the band, not something that is publicized. I can draw the drills in powerpoint, but that isn't exactly using a computer program to design the drills and simulate them. In short, no. The computer programs, even today, cannot do the drills as written. — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
probably wouldn't hurt to email the band director to ask. technology changes so fastOldag07 21:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Concur...BUT...
  1. I am a computer science major and I keep up on these things. (everyone scream "GEEK!" now)
  2. I am a member of the Texas Aggie Band Association and keep up on events/progress
  3. My brother was in the band for years after I and no major changes happened. I also keep in touch with a lot of the bandsmen to this day. No progress yet.
  4. An e-mail is "original research." Kinda stupid if wikipedia wants facts, but they want verifiability and can't use that. — BQZip01 — talk 21:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm with OldAg in feeling uncomfortable with that computer program statement. It's obviously limited by the algorithms that are programmed not being able to model what humans are capable of. Perhaps the statement can be modified to say "...are so complicated and precise that they cannot be reproduced by computer programs that design marches." Very good article overall! --Claygate 02:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! suggestion and reference added in the Marching section per WP:LEAD — BQZip01 — talk 06:43, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The phrase "Corps functions" is too narrow. The FTAB participates in muster too.

Y Done Added wikilink too. — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Final sentence feels like it should be in present tense except for the last part about the bush library.

Y Done rephrased, but I am still trying to focus on past accomplishments here, not the present. — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

History titles, "A tradition of excellence, and military precision" don't seem to fit in.

    1. A tradition of Excellence could be- "the Dunn Era"
    2. Military Precision could be- The Adam's era, or something like that
{{Dunn}} whoops Y Done — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The "Expansion" title could be more descriptive "Modernization and Expansion" maybe?

Y Done — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Like many of the Texas A&M articles quotes like "wind of a scheme", they feel too much like storytime or something. Wikipedia, well, should be more encyclopedic.

Y Done Rephrased to "Adams discovered a gambling scheme whereby cadets were took bets on what yardline the dog would defecate." — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

"best band members in the state"- is there a more specific term for "best band members in the state"

N Not done Y Done This statement is derived from the book where it states that high school all-state band members began coming in drove (some comprising almost 30% of the freshman class). By definition, they are the best. — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Then mention what you said above in the paragraph. Oldag07 21:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Good point. Done. — BQZip01 — talk 21:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

"nearly impossible drills"- i can't think of a way to replace it, i just don't like the phrase. intricate drills, difficult drills, i don't know. . .

Y Done replaced terminology with "known throughout the marching band community for writing extremely difficult drills." It's hard for even band members to appreciate how difficult his drills are until they experience a Friday afternoon drill practice from 1500-1900... — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Since the band's inception, it has remained an all-cadet organization. Its members, called BQs, are part of the Corps of Cadets. combine sentences. . ..

Y Done — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The Aggie Band is so large that it is designated as a major unit within the Corps, on par with the size of a Brigade or Wing. - "so large" is not a really good term- The Aggie Band, a unit within the Corps, that is the size of a Brigade or a Wing.

Y Done rephrased to "The band is a major unit within the Corps, comparable in size to a Brigade or a Wing. " — BQZip01 — talk 20:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

So high is the demand that one person, upon finding out the Aggie Band would not be performing at the local game versus A&M, returned and requested a refund for 40 tickets.- could be rewritten Demand is high to watch the Aggie Band. . . . ..

Y Done removed "so" /rephrased — BQZip01 — talk 20:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

These boots usually cost more than US$1,000 and the traditional places they are made are Victor's or Holick's, owned by the family of Joseph Holick, the first Band Director.

These boots usually cost more than US$1,000 and generally are made at Victor's (what is Victor's) or Holick's, owned by the family of Joseph Holick, the first Band Director.

Y Done Victor's is another bootmaker in the local area. They've been making boots for almost a century now. Added ref. — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

During the fall semester, the Aggie Band practices one to three hours every weekday morning and on Saturdays every week with a football game. In addition, some components of the band also practice on Sunday afternoons and planning of the drills takes place throughout the fall semester.- combine sentences

N Not done ??? How? One sentence talks about the band as a whole and their practice schedule. The other talks about various components of the band (including, but not limited to, specific drummers, bugle rank, and the drum majors). Not really sure what you want me to do here.

"is in charge of the band."- could be "leads the band"

N Not done Gotta disagree with you there. They still are leaders of the band, especially in performances. The Head drum major is on Band staff (see the reference in the Standard). — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
K. i am still not familiar with the corps. Oldag07 21:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

In addition, the band is comprised of three different ROTC programs and appoints commanders to manage and train the cadets within their respective ROTC affiliations.[4] - Band members are part of one of three different ROTC programs. is the last clause necessary

N Not done Well, I am trying to point out that these guys are commanders as well and comprise part of the leadership of the band. The ROTC commanders are specifically in charge of ROTC matters for the entire band and hold command authority (how ever much THAT really is for cadets...) in that regard, so yes I think it is necessary.
It is your baby Oldag07 21:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

the phrase "in addition" is used a lot sometimes it is unnecessary. Sometimes could use, "moreover", "furthermore", etc. . .

Y Done noted and altered accordingly throughout the article. Only 3 instances of "in addition used throughout now. — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

"many different instruments".- replace with the next sentence- can combine sentences.

Y Done combined — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Membership requirements are- could replace- Members must have,

Y Done — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It is highly recommended that all members participate in the Spend the Night with the Corps program to better understand the rigors of life in the Corps of Cadets.- highly recommended- NPOV. who recommends that? i think the sentence could be removed

N Not done If you check the refs, you'll find that this is the recommendation of the band directors on the website. I rephrased and attributed the recommendation to the organization and not to wikipedia, so I hope that addresses your concerns. — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

is limited only by the imagination of the directors and drum majors- not necessary. and there there is a very distinct style that the aggie band has. And such it is "limited" in some senses. There are different marching styles. Marching_Band#Marching_styles mention the style of the band.

Y Done Yeah. I got a little TOO creative here (an Aggie going too far?!?! Say it isn't so!!!). Rephrased accordingly. — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't the article have to be in Multiple wikiprojects. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Drum_Corps, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Arts, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musicians is this a good time for an A&M wikproject? we already have one FA :-)

Y DoneFA criteria states it must comply with "relevant WikiProjects." so, no.
An A&M Wikiproject? You bet. If you start it, I'll maintain it until you get back from your Americorps tour (yes, I read user pages).

good luck- overall, liked the article.

Thanks! — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

BTW, I did post a picture of the practice field if you want it.

Where? — BQZip01 — talk 20:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Oldag07 16:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:TAMU_Bandfield.JPG as for wikiprojects, with you didn't mark. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Drum_Corps, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Arts, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Musicians Musicians definitely, i am not sure if you are a drum corps? Oldag07 20:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

In the modern sense of the word, no, they aren't a Drum Corps. In the strict and historical sense, yes. I'll add them accordingly. Everything else up to snuff? — BQZip01 — talk 21:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah...I looked at those and Musicians has no other college bands and seems to be exclusively in the RIAA world of musicians, not school entities. So, I think not. Same for the listed reasons for the other two projects: they don't seem to fall under their jurisdiction. — BQZip01 — talk 21:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
As for your image...it has been there for about a week now... — BQZip01 — talk 21:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)