Talk:Fidel V. Ramos

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This article should have a LOT more about Ramos' actual presidency. That's a 6-year term, there's gotta be more than 2 sentences to say about it. TheCoffee 19:38, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Article is much longer now and this problem seems to have been addressed. Coffee 04:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] The Scams

[edit] DONMAR SHOULD BE KICKED OUT OF WIKIPEDIA

Donmar keeps deleting other people's edits!! He should be banned from Wikipedia! If it's critical of Ramos, he deletes it !!!!

Donmar's alias is peads68.73.5.136 05:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Who do you think you are?... have you done something for WIKIPEDIA... other done trying to criticised the people involved in the Martial Law... Imee Marcos, Ferdinand Marcos, Fidel Ramos and so forth... I'm not a supporter of any single one of them... but that doesn't mean you can just put other people's speeches about them in those articles!!!...

And by the way, asking for a proper paragraph for your contribution - CONTROVERSY, ACCUSSATION, CRITICISM... is not that hard... you have had a good REFERENCES but you need to at least made it not as long as what you did before... I suggest you might as well include corruption allegations against them... peads 08:20, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree Donmar's at least a little biased. He whitewashed my piece on the power crisis. He got rid of the elaboration of the consequences of the IPP contracts. While hardly editing my part on explaining Ramos' situation as somewhat extreme (which was the longer part). And he originally criticized my piece as simply being too long. I thought the explanation of Ramos' situation was more biased even. Especially the part about "most academics and expert agree". They do but there are no surveys for that. Responsiblebum 08:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE; HONORARY DEGREES, MEDALS, ETC.

I agree that the article is too long: I don't think enumeration of one's medals and honorary degrees should be included in one's biography, and that not only pertains to Ramos, but ALL. I think what happened during their administration is more relevant to the reader than all medals and honoris causa. If you will go by medals, none can beat the claims of Ferdinand Marcos. But how can we ascertain whether those are legitimate or not? I propose that NONE of the articles allow the listing of medals, honorary degrees, and even the listing of MOVIES (like the Erap article used to have, thank God, someone took them off!) I think the quality of WIKIPEDIA articles has gone down considerably by people doing this. Also including articles of irrelevant people,(I've come across many of them, all filipinos), has made WIKIPEDIA lose some of its credibility. KaElin 22:56, 27 September 2006 (UTC) Hopefully the administrators would do something about this KaElin 22:56, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I suppose you're right... It would be better if we could just make another article for the awards and decorations for anyone... world leaders - politicians, sportsmen and so forth.... peads 23:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


In a NPOV, it would be ideal that the scams which resulted to a massive loss of confidence should also be given space. Especially teh PEA -AMARI scam which tangled the goverment for years with unexplained disapperance of 6B pesos worth of funds which led to a World Bank inquiry and a forced increase on VAT (E-VAT law) from 4% to 10% mandated by WB prior to an expenditure loan granted for the project. dryermaker 0956 PST June 3, 2005

Done. If anybody has more info on Ramos' corruption, please do put it into wikipedia. The Ramos article is really POV'd bad. User:Soup 22:32, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, POV should be corrected, but other than that, the article has improved. hard to find info on the charges. :) --Noypi380 10:51, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


AGREE!

Good day,

I just recently wrote on the power crisis part of the article and it was completely erased by Donmar! While i'm willing to admit it maybe not up to scratch and may contain a little bias, I have tried hard to be objective and fair. I believe it can be seen in what I wrote. I'm willing to take some criticisms and edits but to erase it completely seems a little much. Here is what I wrote for your review:

Unfortunately, Ramos had to issue supply contracts that guaranteed the government would buy whatever power the IPPs produced under the conract in US dollars to entice investments in power plants. This became a problem during the East Asian Financial Crisis when the Philippine Peso lost half it's value and demand for electricity contracted. Despite the contracted demand for power, the government still had to pay the IPPs for power that the contract stipulated they produce. This is regardless whether it was consumed (hence generated) or not. The situation was further exacerbated by the weakening Peso which raised the price of electricity since the IPPs were paid in US dollars.

It is debated whether Ramos' issuance of supply contracts was a punishable crime of negligence on his part or a simple mistake. It does not help that he is suspected of pocketing millions from the issuance of such contracts. However, most experts agree that it was an honest mistake. The country was considered risky by investors due to previous coup attempts by Gregorio Honasan and experienced brownouts at an almost daily basis lasting 4-12 hours before he issued IPP licences. The low supply of power and percieved instability held back investments and modernization in the country. Few people could have forseen the Asian Financial Crisis and the implications it brought about in the power sector. In addition, the Philippines was a pioneer in the Built-Operate-Transfer (BOP) scheme where private investors are invited to built certain government projects (i.e. tollways, powerplants, railways etc.), make money by charging users, and transfer operation to the government after a set amount of time. As there was no literature or previous experience to such a scheme, most early contracts put a large and undue amount of risk on the government in cases of unfavorable changes in the business environment. Given such factors, most experts and academics consider the generous IPP supply contracts an understandable error. -- Someone who cares but hasn't finished reading the WIKI instructions, July 13,2006


  • hey! the article is too big already and your writing about two paragraphs... you might as well reduce it to at least one paragraph... --peads 05:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to but to do that and keep all the facts is gonna be hard for me. Can't we just keep it there let others also edit and shorten it? I mean that's the spirit of wiki isn't it? collaborative effort? of course it's another thing if what i said was an outright lie but it isn't. Somewhat POV but generally true. I'll try to get sources but Ramos is good at hiding... things. He's WestPoint counterintelligence after all hehehe just a joke folks. God I hope he doesn't come for me for that --guy who cares July 13,2006


  • Ok Thanks for the information though... its a good one but its quite long... --peads 05:44, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

One thing bad about Ramos' presidency was the rampant smuggling and dumping of goods into the Philppine market. There was smuggling even during Marcos' time but it was limited to a few select cronies thus somewhat controlled. With Ramos and Cory the floodgates were opened. This has led to the unnecessary demise of many a local industry. I'm for free trade and liberal markets but dumping of good is not free trade nor is it sanctioned by the WTO!

Case in point is the cement industry. During Ramos' time foreign firms dumped cement in the country. It was so cheap cause they cold it at a loss and/or they were heavily subsidized. The local cement manufacturers either closed or sold out. Now the partly foriegn-owned local factories are asking for protection and tariffs to protect their local operations. The same tariffs they decried as unfair when they were dumping cement into the Philippines. --- guy who cares July 18,2006

[edit] Good article

[edit] Article removed from Wikipedia:Good articles

This article was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because : it doesn't have any actual photos of Ramos, aside from the painting. It only has two sources, and no internet sources that readers can use to verify information. It has an arbitrary "Facts" section which I don't see the purpose of, since the whole article should consist of facts. And the "Personal life" and "Awards and decorations" sections seem full of lists and I would not consider them "compelling prose". Coffee 04:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There is an actual picture (of 2004) available on Commons: Image:RAMOS jan9 2004.jpg. Magalhães 06:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Doe we need to list all those awards and honors? so boring to read

[edit] Doubts on certain claims

"Under his administration, the Philippines enjoyed economic growth and stability, and was the Far East's leading exporting country."

By what measure was this claim made? I don't have data on hand but as someone who studied economics; I find it impossible that we became the Far East's leading export country in such a short time. Japan's exports alone at the time was larger than the whole of RP's GDP. --- guy who cares July 18,2006

I'm getting rid of this claim if no one can back it up. Simply because it is silly to think a country can export more than Japan when Japan's export is "larger" than that country's GDP. Responsiblebum 09:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Revision

I think the article needs some revision in some sections... its a good article but its too long to be a GOOD, ACCEPTABLE Article!... I suggest sections needed to be revised are:

    • Power Crisis
    • Final Years as President
    • Post-presidency 2006 section
    • Criticism

I already removed the "Personal Life" section... Because most information are already in the "Profile" section.

By the way, this article is not about Ramos Presidency... its a biography article and therefore his past achievements and deeds, even his post-presidency deserve a place in this article... even his role in the EDSA Revolution of 1986 (which I think needed to have its own section)... buts its all good! peads 01:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The article is so obvious biased. Whoever wrote must be a staunch supporter. All those medals, honors, who wants to read about those? Even the article on Ferdinand Marcos, did not cite all his medals, fake or real.

The "profile" section should be deleted. Whatever it contains should be made part of the pargaraphs constituting the article.Rmcsamson 18:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DONMAR - ARE YOU RELATED TO RAMOS?

I did include a couple of paragraphs under criticism with references, and DONMAR DELETED THEM! dOES HE OWN THE ARTICLE, or SOMETHING? iS HE RELATED TO fIDEL RAMOS? 68.73.5.136 06:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey Punk!... I'm not related to him ... ... I don't own the article!!!... and your couple of paragraphs that you add to the Fidel Ramos article... is some kind of vandalism... writing SPEECHES of Alfred McCoy... why not revised them into proper paragraphs... and you are depending to one person's opinion (Aldred McCoy)... therefore you don't need three or four paragraphs... And you can't just erase his background and awards (lucky Rmcsamson WAS ABLE TO REVERTED YOUR ACTION)... other biographical articles does have this sections ... although others don't have...

AND if you want to write about the awards and decorations of Ferdinand Marcos go for it... I've just started Corazon Aquino's award and decoration section...

What do you mean boring!... biased!... like I said other articles like Douglas MacArthur, Carlos P. Romulo, Winston Churchill, etc... have had the awards and honor section!... people are just acknowledging there achievements...

Like I said before... you can add any criticisms to this article by proper paragraphs not not speeches from one person... you can write about McCoy's speech but at least revise it into one paragraph!... peads 22:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Criticism of a certain person may help make the article netural. However, I think that it should be done properly. Paraphrasing and proper citation ought to be observed. Nonsensical deletion of criticism, however, is not neutral activity. Personal taste is irrelevant. Rmcsamson 18:36, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guys, chill

Ok. I'd say we remove the profile section and add them at the rest of the article. Also, if you people insist that the profile section is important, omit facts that are said already on the infobox. Also, the Awards and Decorations should go at the bottom. Before the references. --Howard the Duck 11:15, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I placed Awards and decorations at the bottom. I really doubt if they should really be there, even John F. Kennedy doesn't have one. --Howard the Duck 14:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ImagePhp bill 2000 back.JPG

Image:ImagePhp bill 2000 back.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2003 Accident

This Chula Ramos elf accident in 2003 is today's Front Page encyclopedic article and feature of Philippine Daily Inquirer. Please do not delete the same, as others had deleted many of my edits. It is a turning point in the Ramos' fate and Faith. The article or feature is very revealing. - --Florentino floro (talk) 05:25, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

The fact that it is front page news doesn't make it encyclopedic. The article may well be interesting, but it doesn't really tell us about Fidel Ramos. I'm deleting it, not to be vindictive, but because it is clutter. maxsch (talk) 16:28, 23 March 2008 (UTC)