User talk:Fholson

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Hello, Fholson, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  -- RHaworth 08:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elizabeth Grill Watson

Originally posted to: Talk:"elizabeth watson"

Excerpt from other site is brief and credits that site. Fred

(a) I am the owner of the website being cited, and I can assure you that it is not "engaged in directly making money off the content."

(b) I fail to see how briefly citing a post on the site harms me or anyone else.

(b) If you're still worried about having permission to use a memorial about a member of Minneapolis Friends Meeting (even though I don't understand why), have the author contact Minneapolis Monthly Meeting and see if it's all right with them. I would be surprised if they were to object.

70.59.151.7 02:08, 17 April 2006 (UTC) (Mitchell Santine Gould)

Moderators, the entry has been entirely expunged without further comment. I am not the author of the entry, nor do I even know who was the original author, but I don't understand why someone else has yanked it, and I'm requesting that it be restored. 70.59.151.7 03:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

End of moved material

Various comments:

  • since the above is signed Mitchell Santine Gould, I assume it was not written by you. But as a general point, always remember to log in before contributing and always sign talk page comments with ~~~~.
  • We don't have moderators here - we have admins and there is a subtle difference. For one thing, you don't need to ask an admin to restore the article!
  • The article title should have been Elizabeth Grill Watson or Elizabeth Watson - without " marks round it.
  • Yes, if you want use that text, you should obtain permission from MMM.
  • But it might be just as easy to re-write it in your own words.
  • Another "but". You will have to work harder to establish Elizabeth's notability - what impact did she make on the world outside? She scores very few Google hits. And note that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information specifically mentions obituaries as something to be avoided. (Do you call them testimonies [to the grace of God in the life of ...] on your side of the pond?)
  • How would you rate her notability as against D. Elton Trueblood?

Being realistic and with regret, I have to say that she probably would not be rated notable enough for Wikipedia. (I would call myself a lapsed Attender of Croydon Meeting.) -- RHaworth 08:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, the notion that some person is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia is quite a different matter from the objections previously raised (including the insinuation that some website [mine] posted a memorial minute to make a buck, fer crissakes). If that's your take on it, based upon practical experience in running Wikipedia, I have no objection. Gen1pic 16:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

You should have read the message more carefully - there was no suggestion that your website posted a memorial minute to make a buck. The suggestion was that copying it to Wikipedia might constitute a violation of your copyright. But don't worry, it was merely the application of the standard {{db-copyvio}} tag - the person who applied was simply responding to the fact that it was in a .com domain.
You may find that WikiMe will accept a memorial to Elizabeth. London Yearly Meeting used to publish an annual volume full of memorials - perhaps Friends should move into the 21st century and start a wiki at Wikia just for Quaker memorials! -- RHaworth 06:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


Fred Olson here on 6/12/06. I finally noticed a link to this discussion today when I logged in to add a link to the Farmer Labor Party page. I'd never used a page like this (User_talk). I dont log in every time I use Wiki (in read only mode) so cant be notified of new User-talk - and may not have noticed it when it was presented. I'll try to watch for it in the future. Do people who've posted to a given Uset-talk page get notified of new activity? Too bad I did not get an email notice. I did create a stub user page today.

It took me a long time to figure out who said what on this user-talk page... And who the various "you" references refer to...

About the Elizabeth Watson article...

I attempted to post the original article about Elizabeth Watson back in April and readily admit it was a feeble attempt.

I'm not sure if I was responsible for the errant quotes. If so, sorry.

I am a part of her extended family, we were at an Easter gathering and somehow we thought of Wiki and that it seemed to us that at least a "stub" about her should exist. I am not in a position to compare her prominence to other Quakers or to some general criteria for appropriateness for Wiki. BTW I looked and did not find such a criteria on Wiki.

Googling her suffers from the general problem that those of us who have common names (and other topics) have... If you google with her middle name, you will miss hits that did not use her middle name. If you google her without her middle name you get far more hits ( 11,900,000 / 78,000 -- without / with quotes) but many of tese are other Elizabeth Wason's but some are her. I tried googling her with the additional search terms: gay history and did not find the general gay history that I remember finding once (the kftf problem - keeping found things found). That web history mentioned her early public statements of acceptance of gays as humans (the best I can recall stated briefly). I did find a brief mention on a Presbyterians for Lesbian & Gay Concerns site: http://www.mlp.org/resources/history.html

When I posted the excerpt I thought it was a reasonable "fair use" (A US term) but did not feel qualified to write something original and did not have time at that moment. What I did have was a Wiki login and familiarity tho admittedly minimal. I dont recall starting an article before.

The main reason for having something in Wiki is that I and many people I assume use it to search of things that google does not do well for (see above). Often it would seem that a stub that has just enough to be found and points to good resources elsewhere is enough. I.e. not every "stub" needs to be expanded if it links to suitable material.

Fred H Olson fholson [at] cohousing.org Fholson 17:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)