Talk:Fenerbahçe S.K.

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Fenerbahçe S.K. was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

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Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in a archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. Baristarim 20:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC) Archives: Archive 1 - Archived on November 21, 2006

[edit] Current Roster Format

I really like this format for listing the current players. It doesn't seem to be the standard wiki format though - any way we can change the standard? (Nice to have players' year joined and former team, so that transfer histories are a bit clearer (eg, Bayern got how many players in 2007? Oh, 6, ok)). Jairuscobb 19:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing player: Stephen Appiah, number four, midfielder of Ghana

I can't see Stephen Appiah in the Fenerbache squad. Is he not a player of this club? I believe he is actually. Can someone sort this thing out. Remove this after this is checked... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.218.230 (talk) 23:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

How do you pronounce that club's name?- SCB '92 10:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

ç in Turkish is pronounced as tch in English. However, it would be nice if someone could add the IPA pronounciation of the word in the intro.. Baristarim 20:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I can tell you how to pronounce the last part (bahçe, which also means garden btw) -> Bach (the composer) put together with Che (the revolutionary), Bach-Che! I don't know how to use IPA sorry :) 81.215.13.145 09:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Bahçe means garden or park and Fener can mean lighthouse or lamp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rokkafellah (talk • contribs) 17:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tags on Atatürk and Fenerbahçe section

"This article or section may contain inappropriate or misinterpreted citations which do not verify the text."

Misinterpreted? Do not verify the text? The link and section are the same text. This makes no sense. It seems like another anti-Fenerbahçe fan is trying to mess around again. CanbekEsen 19:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The source that was provided is not reliable. There's no single evidence about Ataturk being a Fenerbahce fan apart from Fenerbahce's typical bla bla. Don't remove the tags.--BlueEyedCat 00:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Fenerbahçe's typical bla bla? This is from an official website, I'd highly doubt that the officials of such a high organization would try to release false stories. This just seems like another anti fan of the club that is trying to attack the article because they cannot accept something. CanbekEsen 00:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

You can't put forward Fenerbahce's official web site as a reference to your claims. It's non sense and completely funny. Don't remove the tags, this is turning into real vandalism.--BlueEyedCat 18:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Have you seen this?. Please look into this as it has already been resolved instead of sounding ignorant. Even the Turkish version of Wikipedia has this. CanbekEsen 20:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Turkish wikipedia no longer has it. I fixed. NPOV. Learn what that means. How can that be an information source, searching google for words "Fenerbahçe" and "Atatürk" :)))) You are really funny :))) Now I am going to type my name and "Atatürk" to google and say that he was my friend. LOL 88.245.73.109 21:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you realize that the section was sourced from a reliable source? Looking at the history, I take to believe you were the one who added that section. Do you realize that you added it without any sources? A lot of negative things are posted on Wikipedia pages everyday, and you had not sourced it, which leads to suspect that rival fans may be trying to "attack" the club page. If you peek at the history, there has been several issues that we've been trying to solve. Nobody here is "claiming" he was supporter, we are just using the bare-bone information provided by the website that there was a possibility that he may have been a supporter of the club. I myself do not believe that he was a total supporter, considering football wasn't very big back then, but as I've said before, what you posted was suspect as negative info and possibly vandalism. Now that it seems you have sourced, it may stay. It does need a bit re-wording though. Also, I do suggest you refrain from personal attacks. Thank you, CanbekEsen 22:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

You could use {{Fact}} tag instead of removing. When there is only Fenerbahçe offical sites opinion left, it becomes propaganda. Neyse geçti artık önemli değil :)..... Thank you, 88.245.73.109 23:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article must mention sth about recent fraud claims (chicanery, illegal incentive premium) investigated by TFF

Article must mention sth about recent fraud claims (chicanery, illegal incentive premium) investigated by TFF.--BlueEyedCat 18:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. CanbekEsen 20:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Just look at Juventus article. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm sure article must mention about fraud claims.--BlueEyedCat 20:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Look If I would say that Bush won the elections by the help of the mafia and show some "sources" to support my claim, how important and worth discussing it would be? The man who made the fraud claim is an ordinary restaurant manager. Some argues that he has serious mental and economic problems which possibly let him to make such claims. Do we really have to mention a restaurant managers claims here just because he made his show on a national tv channel? Saygılarımla, Deliogul 21:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

See, that's the thing. These are "claims", not actual facts. If you would look at the link I had posted, you'd see that what I am talking about is in that link. CanbekEsen 22:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

So you put ordinary people's claim of Ataturk being a Fenerbahce fan into Wikipedia, but you're against of putting fraud claims. I guess debate is over. Just choose one of them, either remove both Ataturk claims or put both of them.--BlueEyedCat 20:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe other Fenerbaçe fans will get angry to me but personally I don't care if Mustafa Kemal Pasha was a fan or not and actually I think he wasn't supporting any clubs but he was proud of Fenerbahçe because of the team's achievements and heroic helps to the Independence War. On the other hand, a restaurant manager is an ordinary guy but people who claim that Mustafa Kemal Pasha was a fan of Fenerbahçe were not ordinary people. Saygılarımla, Deliogul 20:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Blue eyed friend if you want to open a fraud section, you first have to go to galatasaray discussion page to open the ankaragucu-galatasaray (0-8) fraud game topic and 2006 joint venture between galatasaray and besiktas. Thus in this manner you are threatening the editor to remove the Ataturk article and add a fraud article. This is simply fanatism which has no place in this online information source. You can satisfy your desires in some other platforms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.171.98.69 (talk) 09:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish Super League

I nominated the article of Turkish Super League to be the next article to be upgraded by the Wikipedia community. Please go to this page and vote for our league. We need at least 3 votes to win![1].Haydi Beyler, Deliogul 16:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Sovyetler Birliği milli takımının article'ına yenildik bu hafta ama bir dahaki hafta için şansımız devam ediyor.Yukardaki linke tıklayıp bir oy atın da Süper Lig'i featured article yapalım. Deliogul 11:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zaferrr!

Turkcell Super League article is choosen as the football collaboration of the week! Please help expanding the article. Oy atanlara büyük teşekkür. Deliogul 14:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colours

In the turkish wikipedia the hom,e and away colours are exactly the OPPOSITE. Now which are the real ones??? --Teemeah Gül Bahçesi 11:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ataturk

Well, I really couldn't give two hoots either way about which club he was supporting. Particularly since back when he lived all the three major clubs were nothing more than amateurish weekend gatherings. It was only after the WW2 that football became something close to professional, both in Europe and Turkey. However, if there is going to be a claim it should be clearly stated who is making the claim. Baristarim 01:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the last edit about Atatürk section made it more objective. Please don't revert those claims. Deliogul 20:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I see some people re-adding links to various fan/spam/blog websites. I say keep Antu.com because they are somewhat of an "official" fan website of Fenerbahce. I don't think we need the others. CanbekEsen 23:14, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable players

I've seen a lot of players added to the "Notable players" section. Now, this section is supposed to include players who have made a significant impact at the club. For example, some of the Brazilian players. Fabiano Lima was loaned to us for a season and he made little to no impact. Sergio Ricardo spent half a season with us and then was loaned out to a variety of clubs. Simao played one season for us. These should be moved to a page like List of foreign footballers in Turkey. CAN 20:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree! By the way, Nobre is shown as Brazilian, but Aurelio is shown as Turkish, correction needed.SONSAVASCI 12:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well then, I'll try to start it tonight and see how it goes. Also, I think Nobre's first nationality is still Brazilian, since he hasn't been called up to Turkey. CAN 14:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I won't edit the article, it is not that important, however I must say this. Someone born in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, from a Brazilian Mother and a Brazilian Father, grow up in Brazil and lived as a Brazilian for first 30 years of his life, must have the first nationality as Brazilian. Even 1 year hasn't past after his new Turkish citizenship, we can't set his first nationality as Turkish just because he kicked ball in our national team.

I also noticed that the article of Marco Aurelio is moved to Mehmet Aurelio in wikipedia, I strongly disagree with that too. SONSAVASCI 21:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Mehmet is Turkish, just like Deco is Portugese. CAN 21:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC) Deco just accessed his heritage, he's Brazillian, guess who colonized Brazil? Portugal. He's white, so his parents were probably Europeans and I don't see why he can't play for a country he has citizenship for.

Deco & Aurelio have nothing in common. Didn't you understand any single sentence above? Why don't you just confess that you are bloody fenerbahce fan, and you like to change truths towards your point of view. SONSAVASCI 22:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

What is your problem man? Don't you understand anything I say? Do you even understand what you're saying? Deco also was born and raised in Brazil and did not play for Portugal until he was 24, 6 years after he first started playing in Portugal. Aurelio did the same thing, so why should Aurelio be shown as a Brazilian when his new nationality is Turkish?

And what is wrong with is name? This is what he chose to be called and is being called now. He is Turkish, don't you understand? CAN 01:27, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Aurelio, Nobre and others. They became Turkish, because their teams want to transfer more non-turkish players. Just like after R.Carlos got the spanish passport, Real Madrid trasfered Robinho. Thats all. SONSAVASCI 10:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

If Aurelio didn't want to be Turkish he would've denied the call-up... CAN 11:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Denying national team is forbidden by law in Turkey. Anyone interested in Turkish football knows that. Unsuprisingly, you don't. SONSAVASCI 18:52, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Where is this now? Besides, haven't you read this? http://www.fenerbahce.org.tr/detay.asp?ContentID=4385 CAN 18:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Italian?!

Lugano and Edu are Italian... Hımmm are you sure? Deliogul 20:40, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Gokhantig (talk · contribs) has gone around saying a bunch of players have dual nationality, yet there are no sources to prove this (see Jaba). CAN 20:48, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Looking at it now, I think all these things with players holding dual-nationality for other countries isn't really notable, considering Turkey's foreign policy. I'm going to remove them now. CAN 02:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I guess Jaba even said that he would be proud of playing for the Turkey national football team but it is still irrelevant to our business. I didn't hear anything about Italian citizenships of Edu and Lugano :) Deliogul 15:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

transfermarkt.de has them there. They both hold Italian citizenship, but it's really irrelevant to the article.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Fenerbahce hqfl logo.png

Image:Fenerbahce hqfl logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Turkcell Super League logo.jpg

Image:Turkcell Super League logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

[edit] propaganda and disinformation

Latest revert is about the content of second paragraph. However as long as this page exists, some people will always try to add this kind of "facts" all around the page. (which I call propaganda & disinformation)

Firstly, I respect your efforts on this page. But you should check Wikipedia:Ownership_of_articles which says;

Maybe you really are an expert or you just care about the topic a lot. But if this watchfulness crosses a certain line, then you are overdoing it. You cannot stop everyone in the world from editing "your" stuff, once you have posted it to Wikipedia. As each edit page clearly states: If you don't want your material to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.

So please don't post your stuff here, create a blog and write there how great and mighty Fenerbahce is. Posting here things like "FB is the most successful Turkish club of all time" it is totally crap.

Also, the official web page of the Club is NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE. Copy/Pasting or referencing from that page does not make the content appropriate, but makes it sided and unfair. How can we talk about neutral point of view, if we use exact words that Club uses for its propaganda to its supporters?

By the way Aziz Yıldırım is not chairmen for 8 years, he came in 1998 February so it is nine and a half. Also lets not talk about success in finance and fool ourselves, unless fener gets into this list.

Lastly, there is a history section so lets not flood readers in introduction with details like Istanbul Leauge or womans basketball team. Maybe there can only be a metion about 17th title. (which should also state that galatasaray has 16, otherwise it is pointless) But this -of course- doesn't make fener most successful team of all time. To be most successful of all time, there are other cups needed to be won like uefa cup, super cup, turkish cups, etc.

So lets keep the intorduction clean, neutral and brief. Just like other sections. SONSAVASCI 11:56, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

First of all, I'm not writing how great Fenerbahce is. Look at all these articles like Real Madrid and Liverpool F.C.. They also state how those clubs are the most successful clubs in their country or continent. This isn't point-of-view, this is fact. Fenerbahce has won more total cups than Galatasaray, Besiktas, Trabzonspor, and every other club in Turkey. This article is NOT just about the football branch, but also their other branches.

I'm not protecting the section because I wrote it, but instead because it is notable and factual.

We are not using "exact words" from the official website. If you would see in the references, I've paraphrased and reworded almost everything in the article, nothing being copy-pasted. Also, how is the official site not a reliable source? Besides, they are the OFFICIAL site. Just because -you- can't accept the facts doesn't mean its propaganda.

You do realise that the list is for football clubs, right? Is Fenerbahce a football club? No, they are a sports club with many branches. Look at this first before claiming Fenerbahce are not the richest club in Turkey.

The lead is neutral. It is clean. Leads are not supposed to be brief. A lead should have an overview of every major section in the article. I created the section in the lead to have an overview on Fenerbahce's "history" by stating how successful they are, then going to present times and stating how successful they have been lately. I also included the facts of how the mens and womens basketball teams have been successful of late, thus overviewing the basketball section that is also in this article. You remember Fenerbahce is not just a football club, right?

Just because Fenerbahce haven't won an UEFA Cup does not make them less successful than Galatasaray. Do you see Fenerbahçe_S.K.#Football_Honours? Do you see how many President Cup, Chancellor Cup, and Istanbul League championships they've won? And that's just for the football branch, so you should take a gander at Fenerbahçe_S.K.#Fenerbah.C3.A7e_Honours basketball ones too. So, 86 cups from the football branch, plus 31 from the basketball branch (and I'm not even counting the Ulkerspor ones), and that comes to 117 titles. This total, of course, does not include cups won from the volleyball, rowing, boxing, sailing, athletics, swimming and table tennis branches.

I'm not one for arguments over what should be and what should not be in an article, especially when the information is notable and factual. Thanks! CAN 16:22, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I have nothing new to add my first comments, beside an example of the things that you call facts and I call "propaganda":

Fenerbahce proudly announces, they won 42 cups this season. (2006/2007) They state that, this season was a great season and they won almost every cup, etc. http://www.haber7.com/haber.php?haber_id=247955 However another Turkish club, Beşiktaş says that they have won 45 cups in this season! And they are even calling the fans to visit club museum to see the cups! http://spor.tnn.net/haber_detay.asp?ID=1760401&cat=SPO

Here are your facts. Which team is more succesful last year? We have the same rivalry for History as well. Galatasaray and Fenerbahce claims that they have over 3000 cups. And dont compare Turkish football with spain and england, we even don't had a professional league before 1960. SONSAVASCI 16:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Last year? Hmm, let's see...

Fenerbahçe are the most successful Turkish club of all time, amassing 125 titles in their one hundred year history. Fenerbahçe also hold the record of most Turkish First Football League titles won, seventeen, and most Istanbul Football League titles, winning sixteen.

Do you see anywhere in there that says anything about Fenerbahçe being the most successful club last season? There are no ludocris claims that Fenerbahçe have won over 3000 cups. These are not claims, look at history and you'll see how many cups Fenerbahçe have won. CAN 17:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The comparison of last year, is an example of how teams exaggerate their achievements to impress their fans. If you read the articles from the links I've posted, you'll see that the so called "40" cups are mostly won by kids in the clubs' summer schools. In this way, even if the club wasnt successfull in important competitions, they motivate their fans with 40 cups.

Disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions.

Similar things are going on here. You are saying that Fener has the most Istanbul Football Titles which are from the amateur era of turkish football, from a defunct competition. But you are not saying a word about the Turkish Cup, which is a professional tournament and the winner club has the right to represent Turkey in european competitions since 1950's. Or, how can european progress can be forgotten, when talking about the success of a club. These are examples of discrediting conflicting information, explained above.

Fenerbahçe are NOT the most successful Turkish club of all time. This is very simple to understand. There can't be a discussion about this.

Most successfull club is not Fenerbahce, and even if Fenerbahce won the UEFA cup next year (2008), most successful club STILL won't be Fener, because Galata already did it.

And I sincerely believe that anyone other than fenerbahce fans, thinks like this.

However, from a neutal point of view, there is no "most successfull club" in Turkey. One of the 3 clubs, sometimes comes forward and does some favourable achivements, and sometimes fails.

The usage of the statement "most successful" is a method of marketing. It is used for drawing attention, and to increase the number of supporters. It is a strategy, used by club chairman and managers, just like they use Mustafa Kemal. And about the OFFICIAL sources, it is still propaganda and lie, even if you are dying to believe it or not.

And by the way, how can fenerbahce museum can be the firts club museum if it was opeened in 2005. Wasnt there a museum before 2005? Thanks! SONSAVASCI 20:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes but you see, I'm not exaggerating here. These are the exact numbers and years that Fenerbahçe won the trophies. I do not mention the Turkish Cup due to the fact that Fenerbahçe have won it only four times, the last in the 80's. There used to be a section on their plight in Europe - [2] - but I removed it considering no other featured club articles such as Chelsea F.C. had a section detailing their best European matches. You don't seem to understand when I say Fenerbahçe are more than a football club. Okay, say we count the professional competitions only professional competitions from 1959 on. Fenerbahçe's football branch would then have 50 cups (Super League, Turkish Cup, Balkans Cup, Ataturk Cup, Chancellor Cup, TSYD Cup, Fleet Cup, and Spor-Toto Cup). Add their basketball achievements, 31, so that amounts to 81 cups from just two of their branches. This total is still more than Galatasaray's 49 football branch cups (Super League, Turkish Cup, UEFA Cup, UEFA Super Cup, Chancellor Cup, TSYD Cup). Add four league titles from the basketball branch, and that brings the total to 53. Please, enlighten me with information stating Galatasaray have won more trophies than Fenerbahçe, with which cups and how many times of course. As for the UEFA Cup and UEFA Super Cup, those are two cups; — 2 — cups.

According to the Dutch version of the article [3], they were the first club in Turkey with an official museum.

I've about giving caring about putting that section back in. However, I'd like for you to understand my initial intentions, in that I had meant for it to show for all professional branches of the club that Fenerbahçe was in fact, the most successful club in Turkey, not team.

This message probably got out-of-hand, and I apologize for that, but as I've said time and time again, looking at history, Fenerbahçe's total amount of cups or more than all the clubs. I'll leave this be, but I'd still like to hear a few more opinions so we can get a natural consesus. Meanwhile, I'll try to expand the article further. Thank you. CAN 20:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to defend Galatasaray, nor research for the titles, but in one of the old Galatasaray's publications, they dealed about this topic, and claim that Gala has the more cup than others. You are free to believe it or not, of course.

I didn't know if Fenerbahce had 31 basketball titles and if this is more than Galatasaray or not, but I believe that Efes Pilsen is far more successful than Fener and Gala. It's same for Eczacıbaşı, in volleyball. I am not going to make a comment about Football branch however, because you believe that 1 UEFA Cup's value is equal to 1 TSYD cup. LOL... Why should Galatasaray be more successful, when they couldn't do a thing about the Champions League and put into the UEFA Cup and then won it. Fenerbahçe gets into the Champions League and they immediatly face teams like Iternazionale and PSV Eindhoven. Galatasaray has had two more years that Fenerbahçe to amass more cups,but still Fenerbahçe has won with Galatasaray everytime lately. We'll see how it goes this season with the precious addtion of Lincoln.Rokkafellah 21:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC) Anyway... Lets face it one more time: Fenerbahce is NOT most successful, team OR club. It is a lie, it is propaganda, it is disinformation. Fenerbahce is one of the successful clubs in Turkey, not the most.

I know that there is no way to persuade a fan. Every fan wants to believe that his club is the best. But truths are not like that.

And here is an interesting link about the first museum. It has some comments about total amount of cups too! SONSAVASCI 22:27, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to argue with ignoramaces. CAN 01:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well that was rude. I tried my best, but there is no reason for me to argue with an impolite 15-year-old kid, who doesn't even live in Turkey, especially about Fenerbahce. Someday, you'll realize that things are different here in Istanbul, then how they look like from US, John. SONSAVASCI 10:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm Turkish and I live in North America and I agree with the Istanbul-originating guy, Fenerbahçe is not just a football team it's a club with many branches for many sports. Just because Galatasaray has won a UEFA Cup or Super Cup doesn't mean that the're better or more succesful. I'm a real Fenerbahçe fan and all I've seen of Galatasaray fans is they like Galatasaray when they win, but when they start losing they turn to Fenerbahçe for comfort.Rokkafellah 21:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to comprimise with you, but you just keep jabbing away. You may see how you started this whole argument, and once I tried to finish it, you kept adding fuel to the fire, enough after I had apologized. CAN 19:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

We can say that Fenerbahçe is the most successful club in 2000s or Fenerbahçe took the lead after Galatasaray's success in Europe in 2000 because it is so clear that Fenerbahçe surpassed its rivals in recent years in every field. However, I we can't use a statement about being the all-time best because every team has good times and bad times in its history. Deliogul 18:03, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Now this is exactly why this article needs to be cleaned up. It begins by talking about Fenerbahçe S.K. as something more than just a football team, referring to the various branches of the club in other sports, but after a brief reference the remainder of the article then almost exclusively focused on the football team. Of course, you might well say that since the football team is the major branch, this is justified, but the football team ought in my view to be the subject of a separate article.

The ambiguity regarding "which is the most successful club" could accordingly be handled separately and distinctly, dependent on the subject of the article. It might, for example, be correct to say that as a sports club, Fenerbahçe S.K. are the most successful club in Turkish history, whilst another football team are the most successful football team in Turkish history.

This need not be complicated. It's quite straightforward to count the league titles and the cups won, but when we start confusing the football side with the other sports, and mixing in the youth and junior teams, and the women's teams and so on, then everyone is talking at cross purposes.Tanel76 (talk) 17:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notable players list

Can anyone explain why this was brought back even though it was replaced with a few paragraphs and a link to another page with many of the notable enough players? Just because a foreigner played for the club doesn't make him notable enough. CAN 21:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] team ranking

Very strange to play for Gokhan Cetin should not play he —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.14.251 (talk) 00:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC) Ronaldinho

[edit] fenerbahce -inter

1-0. Congrats !! I think we should have something like Galatasaray S.K.#Great_Matches_in_Europe here. I came here to add the game to such a section. Deniz^T_C 20:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

With all my respect to the scores, I think this kind of section is useless, unless the games played as semi-finals or final matches. For example GS beat Liverpool last year because that livepool was already qualified before the match. And this year Inter was missing many of their players, due to health conditions and punishments that came from last years game against Valencia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.240.17.133 (talk) 02:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

"Zanetti, Stankovic, Ibrahimovic, Cambiasso, Solari, Walter Samuel". These are world famous players that started at the first eleven of Inter. Then Mancini also used Figo and Crespo. I also think that such a section is useless but beating a squad like this is not an easy thing and when you consider that Fenerbahçe dominated the game, this is clearly a success. Deliogul 09:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Barca won 5-0 against same Inter last month, that is what domination is. --88.240.17.133 16:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

If Julio Cesar gave us a chance, we could do the same. Didn't you at least watch the highlights of the match? Deliogul 19:40, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fenerium sayfası?

İyi derecede ingilizce bilen bir arkdaşımız bir Fenerium sayfasa hazırlasa tam süper olacak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.161.29.211 (talk) 04:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

it will probably fail to meet WP:CORP --88.240.23.45 (talk) 23:11, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Yapilmistir afendim, anglofeb.com kaynakli. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.81.167 (talk) 13:00, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA review comments

Hey, here you go...

Citations must be placed per WP:CITE, that is usually immediately after punctuation.
Lead citations are a bit over the top. In general the lead is okay without citation because you talk about what's in the lead later on in the main part of the article and that's the best place for the citation.
"Yellow Canaries" - citation required.
"Official site writes Black Stocking FC (founded in 1899), Kadıköy FC (founded in 1902) and Fenerbahçe FC (founded in 1907) are same clubs, at least most of founders are same.[13] " - sorry to sound blunt but that really doesn't make much sense. I'd suggest an English copyedit.
"However this information is unsubstantiated and unproved." - then why use it?
"On the other hand, a historian and journalist Selahattin Duman did a research[14] on Fenerbahçe history in recent years. In his serial articles that published on SABAH newspaper, he states that there isn't evidence of Fenerbahçe before 1907, but the Black Stockings." - again, an English copyedit needed.
Supporters section completely unreferenced.
Technical staff is borderline trivia.
Notable players - what makes them notable? Inherently WP:POV I'm afraid. Check out some football WP:FA's like Arsenal F.C. for help here.
Date ranges must use en-dash so 1963-64 should be 1963&nash;64, see WP:DASH for the details, and be consistent, it's either 2001–02 or 2001–2002 (prefer former).
For the other sports sections, use {{main}} and expand more on each.
References - don't use the scrolling ref table. Use two columns with {{reflist}}.

It's a long way from a GA in my opinion. The biggest issue is the lack of English copyediting, so right now I'll fail it. Feel free to get in touch with me for anything specific. The Rambling Man 17:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peacock terms and poor English

Apart from the improvements suggest above, the tone of this article is very unsuitable for an encyclopedia. To take but one example, please review this sentence "The passion of the Fenerbahçe fans has been recognised by many of the teams that dare to pay the visit to the deadly feud that these Turkish giants thrive in". Apart from being poorly constructed, what is meant by "the teams that dare to pay the visit(sic!)"? An equally serious error is that the whole article is written in very bad English. Just look at the first sentence of the first paragraph "Official site writes Black Stocking FC (founded in 1899), Kadıköy FC (founded in 1902) and Fenerbahçe FC (founded in 1907) are same clubs, at least most of founders are same". This sentence alone contains at least five rather obvious language errors. With so many errors in one single sentence, it is not surprising that it gets hard to read the article because of the language. If possible, someone with a good command of English should rewrite this article, correcteing all the language mistakes and aiming at more suitable wording in many cases. JdeJ (talk) 16:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Things to improve

The text drops a number of unknown name at you, especially in the history section

Ziya Songülen and Necip Okaner founded Fenerbahçe Spor Külübü a century ago in 1907 on Beşbıyık Street in Moda - What is Moda?
Ayetullah became the first General Secretary - Who is Ayetullah?

JdeJ (talk) 10:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Moda is a town/district in Istanbul, on the Asian side of the Bosphorus. Maybe it could be changed to ". . in Moda, Istanbul" to be more specific, but it's not incorrect as it is, either.

Ayetullah is Ayetullah, one of the people involved with establishing the club. You must be aware that surnames weren't mandatory in Turkey at the time, so he is simply known as "Ayetullah bey", or "Mr. Ayetullah". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.83.192 (talk) 09:03, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] stadium capacity

someone made a typo on the capacity it has a full stop instead of a comma. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.173.98 (talk) 14:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

This is an arguable point given that many European countries use the decimal point as a thousands separator and the comma for decimals. I doubt that anyone would believe that the stadium capacity was 60! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanel76 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Luis Aragones

he could be the new manager —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.170.86.213 (talk) 21:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)