Talk:Fender Telecaster

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Contents 1 Table of variants 2 NPOV 3 re: notable players 4 re: intro 5 re: wooden 6 thanks! 7 Telecaster = Esquire? 8 Telecaster, Broadcaster and Esquire 9 Re: Esquire, Broadcaster, Etc. 10 tele/esquire 11 External Links 12 Merge 13 Bob Dylan, Signature Tele Player?? 14 Springsteen Guitar Correction 15 Electric Guitar Seniority? 16 Rip-off 17 Fender Wikiproject Proposal 18 Signature Telecaster players, non-NPOV 19 WikiProject class rating 20 Can't we get a better picture?

[edit] Table of variants

I am considering making some kind of table listing the different variations and their specifications. Would this be overkill? I would be happy to make a first pass but would want others to review and edit. Branny76 05:21, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I say go to it! Rohirok 21:50, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree also! Sounds like a great idea. Patbaseball2221 03:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Ditto!,

I see no mention of the "reissues", even though I have been playing one since '82, and consider it the best guitar I have ever, or ever will own.--W8IMP (talk) 13:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Although I agree that it's a great guitar, I don't think this article meets wiki standards for NPOV, for example the comment in the intro that it was the 'right guitar at the right time' and that it was a 'great idea...' I won't go so far as to tag it for NPOV (at the moment) and for the sake of not having starting a revert war I won't wipe out (needless) lines that I currently can't replace with anything of worth, but I believe it should be looked at. 71.52.241.53 03:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: notable players

The notable players list is starting to get pretty long, and I've noticed that many of the players listed have not used the Telecaster as their primary axe during their careers, but rather have used it merely sometimes, or with certain songs or albums. For example, Jimmy Page is listed, though he is more characteristically known for his use of the Gibson Les Paul. John Frusciante is listed, even though he has usually been seen with a Stratocaster. Should we include B. B. King in the list, since he once used a Telecaster? I don't think so, since everyone knows he's a Gibson man (ES-355).

If the list starts to get much longer, I suggest breaking the entire list off into its own separate page (perhaps entitled "Famous artists who have played the Telecaster"), with notes for each artist about which famous songs or albums that they used the Telecaster on. We could retain in the Telecaster article a more exclusive list of artists who have used the Tele as their core instrument. As a guide for who should be included on this list, I suggest we limit it to those who have had a signature Telecaster designed for them by Fender, artists who are most commonly pictured playing a Telecaster guitar, or artists who usually used the Telecaster on stage and in the studio during the peaks of their careers. There might be some exceptions to these general standards, but I believe that they would do a good job of distinguishing those who use the Telecaster as their "signature" instrument from those who happened to have used a Telecaster at certain times. If every artist who used the Telecaster at some time were put in the list, it would be longer than the rest of the article. Rohirok 17:44, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Jimmy Page might be a good one to retain in the article list. If a good portion of his more prominent studio work was done with a Tele (and according to one friend of mine, it was), then this might justify his continued inclusion. Brian May was added to the list today. Here's an example of one artist that would probably be placed in the separate, more general list, since he's mostly known for using his homemade Red Special guitar. Anyway, we'll see how the list shapes up. Rohirok 03:19, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

When was Brian May ever known as a Telecaster player? Honestly, I'd vote for cutting the whole list. It seems that 8 out of 10 changes to the page come from someone adding their favorite guitarist, whether or not he has any business being included. EVERYONE played a Telecaster at some point. It's unavoidable. Auto movil 04:52, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed the notable players section into signature Telecaster players, specifying that those included are musicians who used it as their main guitar throughout their careers. There is also a wiki link to the new Telecaster players page, which is just the old list of notable players. I thought the list should be retained in some form, for the sake of retaining information. Hopefully, those who want to add their favorite guitarist will now do so on the Telecaster players list, reserving space in the article for those who are really known as Tele players. Rohirok 03:54, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It is somewhat noteworthy that Jimmy Page used a tele during the early day of Zeppelin as both his studio and live guitar. The live dvd has several examples of tele use, and the Les Paul was primarily a stage guitar. In studio he used the Danelectro as often as the Les Paul, with the Tele as a solo guitar.

Syd Barrett in fact played a mirrored ESQUIRE guitar, but editing the entry to that effect was automatically reverted by a bot.

All of my references have called Syd's mirrored guitar a Tele, but I looked more closely at a picture of this instrument, and it clearly lacked the neck pickup. Perhaps he had a replacement neck with a Tele decal put on his Esquire? Surely, he would not have purchased a Tele only to have its neck pickup removed. In any case, I removed the reference to Syd's mirrored guitar, as it was most probably not a Tele, but it might bear mentioning in the Esquire article. Rohirok 19:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

There's no mention of Jeff Beck, which I find a little odd, but a larger oversight is Jerry Donahue. He's even got a Fender Signature model. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doozy88 (talk • contribs)

Actually, the list of notable players is already too long and pov'd. I agree to the significance of Beck and Donahue. But both are already mentioned in the List of Telecaster players which is a much better resource for notable players. 142.167.67.170 19:05, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: intro

I noticed today Auto movil's reversion of my edit of the first paragraph, made due to the contentions that my edit was less simple and introduced an inaccuracy. I will admit that my clarification of the term "Spanish" guitar made the intro paragraph more complex. I do think that such clarification needs to be made in some way, as most readers will not understand what this means. Perhaps not in the intro paragraph, but somewhere.

As for the inaccuracy that I supposedly introduced, I am unaware of any such inaccuracy, and Auto movil did not point out what it was. That would be an important thing to explain if reverting.

I will again edit the first paragraph, as it contains the gratuitous and inaccurate statement that the Telecaster is "for all practical purposes, the 'first electric guitar.'" As counter-examples, I offer three: The electrified acoustic played by Charlie Christian, the solid-body electric Spanish Travis-Bigsby guitar, and the electrified Rickenbacker "Frying Pan" lap guitar. All of these are electric guitars, and all of them predate the Telecaster. Contrary to the final clause of the intro paragraph, the Telecaster is not the first electric guitar, for "practical" or any other purposes. I will delete that clause. Rohirok 07:24, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also deleted "wooden" from the intro paragraph, as that is redundant. The Telecaster is the first mass-produced solid-body electric Spanish guitar made of any material. Rohirok 07:30, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I still think the introduction could be better. The last sentence is closer to accurate than the clause it replaces, but seems clunky and still not quite right. I think it is presumptuous to regard the Telecaster as the "first electric guitar of the type now seen as standard," since hollow body electrics lay as much claim to the "standard" title as solidbodies, and hollow body electrics preceded the Tele by several years. The phrase "For all practical purposes" is also indistinct and unnecessary if what follows it is really accurate, which it should be. What's needed is a reinforcement of the Tele's distinctiveness and importance, without leaving the reader with a false impression of the ways in which it is a "first." I'll give it a shot. Rohirok 03:36, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I see that the "for all practical purposes" clause has been put back into the intro, and my objections to this phrase remain. It is indistinct and wishy-washy, not at all encyclopedia-like. It seems to be claiming one thing (the Telecaster is the first...), but then totally negates that with the "for all practical purposes" qualification. I understand there is some controversy concerning the one-pickup Esquire vs. the two-pickup Broadcaster/Nocaster/Telecaster, and whether you can really claim that the Tele is the first mass-produced wooden solidbody electro-Spanish guitar if the one-pickup model preceded it. That controversy needs to be sorted out for the intro paragraph to be clear and accurate. I am of the opinion that the Esquire is simply one version of the Telecaster, and that it is thus accurate to claim that the Tele is the first mass-produced wooden solidbody electro-Spanish guitar without any further qualification or equivocation. I say this because the Esquire is even more similar to the classic Tele than later models that bear the "Telecaster" model name (such as those with two humbuckers, a Bigsby, or neck-through-body construction). It is also significant that the Esquire was originally intended to be a two-pickup guitar--that is, it was supposed to be precisely the guitar we now call the Telecaster, and can (in my opinion) be seen as simply a Telecaster that lacks the neck pickup. If the Strat had begun as a two-pickup guitar, and a model came out later that preserved all the original details, except with an additional pickup, would we not be correct in saying that the line began with the two-pickup version? Rohirok 12:45, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Augh. Okay, if you can find a better way to say that the Telecaster, under its original name, 'Esquire,' was the first mass-produced, wooden, solid-body Spanish electric guitar -- and that all this adds up to its being the first electric guitar of the kind most people now think of when they think of 'electric guitars,' then by all means go to it. Auto movil 02:11, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I do not see how Arthur Smith used an esquire in 47 when the esquire was not even prototyped untill 49 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.204.146 (talk) 17:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] re: wooden

There was at least one mass-produced electric Spanish guitar made of Bakelite. I believe this was the error I flagged before. Am adding a qualification.

Thanks for clarifying, Auto movil. I tracked down three possible exceptions to my claim that the Tele is the first mass-produced solidbody electric guitar made of any material. One is Rickenbakker's bakelite Electro Spanish model that you mentioned. This is not a true solidbody, however, as it did have cavities in the body. The other Rickenbacker is the stand-mounted Vibrola Spanish electric with a heavy electrified vibrato device that made the stand necessary. This one appears solid, though it too probably had a cavity to house the vibrato mechanism. I also wonder if it was really mass-produced, or just an oddity that happened to be offered briefly by a major manufacturer. I've got little information on this one other than a small picture and a caption. A third possible exception is a solidbody electric Spanish guitar marketed by Slingerland drum company. I don't have enough info on this one to say whether it qualifies as "mass-produced." I am relying for these references on The Electric Guitar: An Illustrated History, edited by Paul Trynka.

[edit] thanks!

your work made me research harder and get into nuts and bolts of solid-body guitar design in the 1930s.

let's duel on the talk page, if you like.

[edit] Telecaster = Esquire?

Are the telecaster and the esquire the same guitar? Fender thinks not. According to their 2004 catalogue, it is a different guitar, albeit of the same family, that has almost always been offered in some respect alongside the Tele. I think that this needs clarifying somehow... Brother Dysk 13:01, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Telecaster, Broadcaster and Esquire

The original name for the Telecaster was the Broadcaster, not the Esquire. An Esquire is a variation on the Telecaster style, having only a single pickup (the bridge position, "lead" pickup) whereas the Telecaster has two pickups. In addition to the bridge pickup, it has one in the neck position, the "rhythm" pickup.

I know this. However, the Esquire predates the Broadcaster/Telecaster, and this makes me ponder the accuracy of the parent article stating that the Telecaster was the first mass-produced solid-body spanish steel guitar. Brother Dysk 02:43, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

^^No, i think its ovious on wikipedia.220.236.219.153 04:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Esquire, Broadcaster, Etc.

However one sorts the early names of the guitar, 'Telecaster' is the name that the series came to hold. Therefore, the Telecaster (under whatever early name) is the first mass-produced, wooden solid-body etc.

It's also not true that the Esquire and Broadcaster were different guitars. They were the same guitar except the Esquire had one fewer pickup. Likewise, if Ford wanted to call a 5-speed Mustang a 'Mustang,' and call a 4-speed Mustang a 'Platypus,' they would be the same car, only with different gearboxes. Auto movil 03:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I disagree - the Esquire was what the guitar was called with one pickup. Tele/Broadcaster was what it was called with two. Fender today (and throughout much of their history) have sold Esquires, called Esquires, that are the same as Telecasters, but with just one pickup. They do, however, still call them Esquires. Brother Dysk 12:11, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

The single pickup Esquire was the first production electric Spanish from Fender, and preceded the dual pickup Broadcaster/Telecaster. Leo had originally intended for the guitar to have two pickups, but his marketing guys convinced him that a single-pickup model would have wider appeal, and it was marketed as the Esquire. There were, however, a few dual pickup Esquires produced at the same time as the single pickup ones, and sold directly to local musicians. These are not to be confused with the Esquires upgraded with a neck pickup after purchase, such as the one Springsteen uses. Rohirok 04:04, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Actually Springsteen uses a Telecaster guitar modified with an Esquire neck.

The Fender Broadcaster was in fact the Telecaster. Gretsch at that time offered a drum kit called the "broadcaster" and they objected to Leo calling his new 2 pickup guitar a Broadcaster so Fender changed the name from Braodcaster to Telecaster. Mr Christopher 20:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] tele/esquire

the difference is that the esquire, while only having one pickup, still has a 3 way selector switch. in the bridge position, it is disconnected from the tone circuit. in the middle position it is connected to the tone circuit. in the neck position it has a capacitor in it that changes the sound to a darker, thicker tone. my info was obtained from this url: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Electric?sku=511313

Please sign your posts on talk pages. Fender Esquire currently redirects to this article, but the article doesn't mention the Esquire at all. Either we need a new article on the Esquire (replacing the redirect) or we need some of this information added to the Telecaster article. Andrewa 09:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

See the new stub at Fender Esquire. Fender guitars are of course determined to regard the Esquire as a Telecaster, as that gives their supporting star model (second only to the strat) an extra two years of history. But the Esquire is a very significant part of that history, and deserves an article of its own IMO. Andrewa 17:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

RE: "no forums"

12. Blogs, social networking sites (such as MySpace) and forums should generally not be linked to. Although there are exceptions, such as when the article is about, or closely related to, the website itself, or if the website is of particularly high standard."

The fact is that Wikipedia's Fender-based entries are far from totally reliable! Therefore, links to knowledgeable sites that can fill in the gaps is surely a good idea, and fully in keeping with the guidelines from the External Links page quoted above. The Fender Discussion Page is the biggest Fender forum, and the members of the Fender Info-Base are some of the most knowledgeable out there.

[edit] Merge

Actually, I'm proposing that the newly listed article Telecaster plus be merged into this one. --Mhking 16:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this. Go to it. Rohirok 03:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I Disagree. Different guitar, seperate page. --Daisy-berkowitz 22:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I say dont merge them, different guitars, just make an external link to the orginal. - djbricksta@Gmail.com

I agree with Daisy, they appear to be different guitars (I'm going to remove the tags, if there are objections just put it back). Radagast83 19:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bob Dylan, Signature Tele Player??

Dylan has "used" (can't ever remember him "playing") a Tele about 3 times in 40 odd years to bash out 4 or 5 passing chords. He bashed out his passing chords on a Strat in 1965 at Newport etc, "used" a Tele in 1966, had another bash when he toured with The Band in the 70's and when he bashed another for the Pope.

The point of all this? Albert Lee who ranks alongside James Burton, is relegated to: "See list of Telecaster players". I've tried to laugh, but it just isn't funny. I sincerely hope that one of your number addressess this very serious error. Sincerely, Andy, England.

I was going to make the same point but I've been beaten to it! So as I'm here I'll ask why is that 3 chord idiot Presley on the list? Oh and by the way Andy, Bob Dylan also used a Fender Jag in 1965 because he was given a whole bunch of Fenders for "allowing" Fender to use pictures of him using them (one of him pretending to play a Precision bass mainly) and I agree with you all the way!

I agree wholeheartedly with the above coments. To describe Dylan as a Signature Tele player is preposterous, he should be removed forthwith. Lion King 16:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Bob Dylan in no way shape, or form can be termed a signature Tele player - he has used just about every electric guitar in the book, (even a Les Paul Custom -God knows why!) I have therefore removed him.Lion King 11:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I say dont merge the articles, keep them seperate.

With all due respect to the man, Dylan isn't much of a guitar player, let alone a "Signature Tele Player." I removed him from this article once, but I see that he's back in all his glory, out ranking Tele players of the caliber of Vince Gill and Albert Lee. It really is silly to keep describing him thus, he "played" any guitar he could lay his mits on! Cheers! Lion King 11:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, Dylan didn't go "electric in 1966" with a Tele, it was 1965, when he used a Jag, then a Strat. Lion King 17:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Springsteen Guitar Correction

I just changed the sentence in the article that stated that Bruce Springsteen plays an Esquire modified with a second pickup. This is false. Springsteen states in the Wings for Wheels documentary that came with the 30th aniversary Born to Run boxset that he plays a Telecaster modified with an Esquire neck. I just wanted to get that straight.

--71.248.211.227 15:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Electric Guitar Seniority?

This article states that the Telecaster is the world's senior electric guitar, having started production in the spring of 1950; however, the article for the Gibson ES-150 says that it began production in 1936: clearly senior to the Telecaster.

True, but this is about the first "solid body" electric production guitar: The Tele, et al...

[edit] Rip-off

I think it should be included how the telecasters and stratocasters never have a Bigsby vibrato as a standard. E.g. that Leo Fender launched both two designs after borrowing one of the Bigsby designed guitars(the one made for Merle Travis) and just about copied every single special feature, including shape and headstock of that guitar. After that Leo Fender and mr. Bigsby weren't on good terms. Gumdropster 16:10, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The problem with your argument is that it isn't true. There is a Telecaster model with a Bigsby, and Bigsby makes a special vibrato for Fender. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.3.192.204 (talk) 13:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fender Wikiproject Proposal

I have proposed a Wikiproject for articles relating to Fender. If you are interested, please add you name here. Izzy007 Talk 21:22, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Signature Telecaster players, non-NPOV

Has anyone wondered why this article has not moved out of the Start Class stage for the past 2 years? The "Signature Telecaster players" section is a good place to start to find out why. It's horribly non-NPOV. I can't believe all the players listed as Signature Telecaster players are covered by those reference books listed. Players need to cited with specific cites to either periodicals or books. And the tone of the section is so biased, it sounds as if it was written by the president of the Telecaster Fan Club of America. - Buster 06:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can't we get a better picture?

The picture at the start of the "talk" section looks more typical; maple fretboard, sunburst finish and 3-piece bridge. Why is the one on the "main Telecaster page" a custom; white body, rosewood fretboard, with a six piece goldish saddle, and that pimpish pearlescent pickguard?--W8IMP (talk) 21:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

2 things to note. A) The picture in the talkpage template is actually a copyvio image that has been stolen from an online vendor(typical white background pic) and then pasted over the ugly colour background to try and hide that it's been stolen someone needs to PUI that image soon ... and B) The article is about a Telecaster and the stolen image at the top of this page is an Esquire... not a tele. 156.34.208.51 (talk) 21:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The true source of the image has now been found and the copyvio has been reported to an administrator. 156.34.208.51 (talk) 22:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The copyvio has been deleted. 156.34.208.51 (talk) 09:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)