Talk:Federal Reserve Note

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Contents

[edit] Great Seal

It seems that almost all of the "Back side" chapter describes the Great Seal, not the bill per se. Perhaps all that should be moved to the Great Seal's page, and replaced with something along the lines of

The back side features the Great Seal of the United States, first used in, along with the national motto In God We Trust.

("In God We Trust", about the only text on the bill that isn't related to the Seal or the number one, is currently not mentioned.)--Max power 18:30, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Historical $1 bills

Although this page is meant to be about Federal Reserve notes, I also consider it standard to use as the page for the $1 bill, paralleling the pages such as U.S. twenty dollar bill for the denominations from $5 to $100. However, these pages now have their pre-Federal Reserve history, talking about 3 historical kinds of notes, United States Notes, Silver certificates, and Gold certificates. Where should we put the pre-Federal Reserve history of the $1 bill?? 66.245.80.142 16:09, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] FRN?

I have never encountered the term FRN (pronounced 'fern'). It's an obvious initialism, but to call out the 'pronunciation' without a citation seems suspect. Can anyone cite a source for this?--Fred 6 July 2005 07:06 (UTC)

[edit] Appearance of US banknotes

Why do all US banknotes look the same? The design and colour choice is pretty much identical. Only the bloke on one side and the scenery on the other side varies. Compared to the currency of pretty much any other country, there is very little variety. Almost all other countries have different-valued banknotes in noticeably different colours. I wonder if there is a general attitude in the US that coloured money is rubbish and worthless, and "real" money has to look drab, bland, boring and uninteresting? — JIP | Talk 13:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, there's a perception that colored money is "monopoly money". Some people complained even about the small amount of color recently added to teh $20 and $50 bills. Personally, I'd be all for beautifully colored bills, but it's not going to happen soon Nik42 05:39, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to know what they think about the fact that some coloured money (Euros, British pounds) is worth more than US dollars. — JIP | Talk 05:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
*shrug* I don't think they think it makes it worthless, just that it doesn't look like money. I'm in the minority, who would love to see colored bills with different sizes, and better designs. Polymer, too. And coins for low denominations ($1, $2, $5, and maybe even $10) The reverse of the $2 bill is the only one I like in the current series. The old $10 was nice, too. Nik42 06:04, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Most Americans never see other countries' currency. They have no need to use foreign currencies or exchange them, and don't know what the current exchange rates are. They're comparing U.S. currency against itself and against play money found in games like Monopoly. — Mateo SA (talk | contribs) 06:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

United State's currency looks similar just because the notes have looked the same way for so long. If they suddenly changed the color drastically the US dollar value would fall. The value of a US dollar is based soley on the faith of the people using it, and changes decrease faith signifigantly. Also, JIP, although the Euro and the GBP are worth more, MOST colored currencies are in fact worth less. Travis Cleveland 11:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The faith does not derive from the bills being all green. The faith derives from the political, economic, and military power and stability. In fact, most banknotes in the world are colored by denominations. So it does not make sense to partition the world into two parts and compare, where one part consists of only the U.S. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 17:52, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

ChoChoPK, I do agree with you on the "partition(ing of) the world into two parts", I was just trying to show JIP the unfairness of his assessment. However, the appearance of the US dollar DOES have an affect on the faith people have in it; changing the color cold-turkey would without a shadow of a doubt decrease its value. If the color were to be changed, it would have to be done slowly over time (which is actually being done now). Travis Cleveland 01:59, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question!

Do the people actually sign each bill? This is not clearly stated in the article, and is a topic of debate in my family.

No, they don't. 8,758,400,000 bills were printed in fiscal year 2005. Even if those individuals signed them nonstop, that would work out to be 278 bills per SECOND Nik42 05:39, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Initially they did (or had someone do it for them) that ended real fast, this was when paper money first appeared as we know it in the US in about 1865, so no.

I think the Treasury note was the first (around 1812). Signature actually signed or printed, I don't know. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 17:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A question on counterfeiting...

The large section on counterfeiting in this article leaves out the most obvious hole in the plan to change the bills: counterfeiters can just keep counterfeiting the old bills. Unless the government takes all of the old bills out of circulation (which they can't, not completely), nobody has to race to keep up with new anti-counterfeiting tactics. Many other countries set deadlines at which the old currency will become worthless: turn in your money for the new stuff, or lose it all. (Like the countries that switched to Euros, for example.) To my knowledge, the U.S. has never done that; you can still use a silver certificate to buy a candy bar at a gas station if you want to. So what's the point of making multi-colored money or different sizes? Kafziel 22:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The point is that most of the old banknotes are soon taken out of circulation, so any transaction with exlusively old banknotes will get much attention :)

The banknote images on this page are a bit misleading, since they don't show the more modern bills that (a) do look more distinct at first glance and (b) have more extensive anti-counterfeiting features (which obviate some of the criticisms on this page). Lordsutch 22:40, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Federal Reserve note/Note

I have moved this article back to Federal Reserve note. There is no grammatical justification for DieYuppieScum's decision to move it to Federal Reserve Note. "Federal Reserve Note" is not a proper noun any more than "Treasury bill" or "U.S. government bond" is. --Tysto 22:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok, then my justification would be the 5 books that I own that call these notes "Federal Reserve Notes". --Kurt 08:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I based my assertion on both grammar comparisons to "Treasury bill" and others and on my original search of government sites, which yielded results like this Treasury Department glossary and this Minneapolis Fed glossary and this Federal Reserve glossary. I also found this CNN Money glossary and this Business Journalism glossary. However investor and collector sites tend to capitalize every entry, and additional searches show very haphazard usage even on government sites and even this Treasury Department glossary, which fails to capitalize even the "Federal Reserve" part, so I give up. You do what you want. --Tysto 02:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I think you are right, howver I'm awaiting more comments at Talk:Demand Note Rich Farmbrough 09:00 26 May 2006 (UTC).

[edit] since 1933

Since this article was created in february 2003, it says: "Federal Reserve notes are fiat currency, which means that they are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity. This has been the case since 1933."

I think this has to be 1971, since the gold standard was abolished in that year. But since "1933" has been up there for so long I thought I'd ask first. Warniats 14:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

It should be 1968 when the Treasury Dept. stopped paying out silver bullion. Also, 1971 was when the U.S. dollar stopped being internationally redeemed in gold. However, this pertains to banks/finacial institutions. --Kurt 08:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Default?

In relation to the "since 1933" section above, the history of the FRN ought to be elaborated upon. Originally the Fed note was redeemable in ounces of gold at a ratio of about 20:1. Under FDR in 1933 in the midst of the Depression, private gold ownership was made illegal for U.S. citizens (gold was supposed to be turned in) and the former FRN obligation was formally defaulted upon by government edict. The ratio was then reset at 35:1 via the gold window for foreign Central Banks only, I believe. It was again defaulted upon under Nixon when the gold window was closed in 1971. The word default may seem overdone, but the prior arrangement was without questioned reneged upon, leaving holders with an inflationary settlement of pennies on the original dollar of purchasing power.

But this raises questions about U.S. dollars vs. Federal Reserve notes, etc. which I don't have the time to dig into.

Thoughts? --VigilantInvestor 19:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Currency?

Whoever wrote this article certainly does not understand the actual meaning of the word "currency".
It is totally impossible for legal tender to be "currency" because legal tender is nothing more than a promissory note; the transaction is NOT current until that note is paid off.
The FRNs in circulation today are not even legal tender because they don't have the four required aspects of a promissory note (Payee, payer, date, amount) and they are not redeemable in lawful money. unsigned comment by IP user: 68.118.213.215

You might want to actually READ the legal tender page. I don't see anything there which suggests the US FRNs are not legal tender. It appears to be your understanding of legal tender that is circumspect... Nil Einne 16:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smaller?

I've seen old $0.25 bills from the 1800s, I think. I haven't found any mention of these on Wikipedia. Does anyone know more about this? —Ben FrantzDale 14:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed paragraph

I looked through the Federal Reserve Act and it doesn't say this.


Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve Notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States government securities. This provides backing for the note issue. The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities). This would meet the requirements of Section 411, but the government would also take over the assets, which would be of equal value. Federal Reserve Notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.

[edit] Continued validity of old notes?

The article should say something about the status of US currency with non-current designs. Does a Federal Reserve Note remain as legal tender indefinitely? If I have a 1960s Federal Reserve Note (or an older United States Note), can I:

  • expect retailers to accept it?
  • offer it as valid legal tender in settlement of a debt? (such that the debt is cancelled if my currency is refused)?
  • exchange it for current banknotes at the Federal Reserve Bank?

In the United Kingdom, there is usually an overlap period of 1 to 3 years between the issuing of a new note and the withdrawal of the old one; after the withdrawal date, old notes retain their value, but can only be exchanged at a bank. This ensures that everybody can identify a valid note easily, and prevents counterfeiters from copying older designs without modern security features. Does a similar system apply in the United States? i.e. will the old $10 and $20 bills be withdrawn at some point? I am interested, because I recently received a 1985 series $5 bill in my change (with curved "United States of America" text, and a smaller Lincoln portrait, the same size as Washington's portrait on the current $1) - it's the only one I've ever seen, after 2 years living in the US, and I don't know if it is valid.

Mtford 18:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The United States has never declared its currency to be no longer legal tender. Any banknote is redeemble at face value, no matter how old. (Of course, the collector's value of old notes can be higher.) However, older-series notes are withdrawn from circulation by banks, and someone attempting to cash in large numbers of rare or old banknotes might expect some extra scrutiny.  ProhibitOnions  (T) 12:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Mtford, I must say that the current article is very misleading on this point. As ProhibitOnions points out, the policy of the USA for at least 140 years (and probably longer than that) has been that all banknotes and coins ever issued remain legal tender. Of course, obsolete designs are often of greater numismatic value than their face value, and such designs will be encountered only rarely.

For some inexplicable reason, only four banknotes are pictured under "pre-2004 designs still in circulation": $1, $2, $5, and $100. Furthermore, the $5 and $100 designs shown are the fairly recent 2003 varieties with the large portraits. In fact, the small-portrait banknotes of all denominations -- $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 -- are still frequently encountered where I live, in Colorado. (Of course, there is no later version of the $1 or $2 note -- at least, not yet.) The small-portrait banknotes were universal until the mid-1990s, when the large-portrait $100 bill was first produced, eventually to be followed by the large-portrait $50, $20, $10, and $5 notes.

Perhaps the intended caption was "pre-2004 designs still in PRODUCTION." That would make sense. In fact, I believe I will change the caption now.

75.71.67.2 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Odd Serial Numbers

I think someone should add information aobut how special serial numbers can collect big money. I've seen places that sell perfect condition new $20.00 bills with a serial number such as 11111111 for as much as $1,000. --64.179.113.48 17:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Such information is best written at notaphily. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Wow, I'm going to start checking my serial numbers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.123.1 (talk) 17:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Security Strips

I think we should mention that some of the notes/bill has security strips embedded in the paper. For one it mitigates (but does not eliminate) the criticism that bank notes can be "washed" and "reprinted" with a larger denomination. In addition for those who are curious I've found a reference: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11874&page=101[1] that lists the color coding of these strips under ultraviolet light. $5 is blue, $10 is orange, $20 is green, $50 is yellow, and $100 is red, which could be added to the article in a table.Ender qa 18:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Table at bottom of article

While the new bills are circulating, and the 5 is scheduled to circulate, should the old series not be included in the first table, at very least for the 5 until the new bill begins circulating (in fact, I'm going to put that one back myself). I also question whether the other old bills should return to the first table if they are still commonly circulating, but I leave that open for discussion. I don't have any info on whether the old 10s 20s and 50s are still "circulating". if you take one to the bank will they automatically take it out of circulation and replace it with a new series bill? I think that should be the test. If a mix is used, they should remain on the table. Until the new 5 is actual circulating, I see no good reason for the old one to be off the table.

Secondly, the table header is "The current banknotes in circulation". This would appear to be a complete misnomer. Until I scrolled a little lower, I could not understand why there were only three bills in the table. The new series are quite validly in circulation and if that is the heading of the table, should be in that table as well. I suggest someone come up with a more appropriate title for the table (pre-2003 series bills or something like that) TheHYPO (talk) 11:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 9/11

Really strange: Some simple foldings of several US Dollar bills make images of 9/11 and OBL. See here: http://egomania.nu/20.html --Bapho  talk  20:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

What's your point? 71.65.254.179 (talk) 23:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Width and mass?

How wide are they when stacked, and how much do they weigh? Volume would be useful too, please. MilesAgain (talk) 00:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

0.11 mm[1] MilesAgain (talk) 00:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] manufacturing

Perhaps some information about how the notes are printed and a general outline of what the paper is made out of. I've heard rumors that they're mostly of cotton construction, but I can't find anywhere any details. 71.65.254.179 (talk) 23:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Currency accessibility lawsuit vs. U.S. Treasury

Has anything happened on this in the last year? I'm having difficulty finding much info more recent than Jan. 2007, and the http://www.ourmoneytoo.org/ website looks like it hasn't been updated in a while... AnonMoos (talk) 01:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It looks like CNN Money ran an article about a current decision being appealed - it's now in the body of the article. Nicholas SL Smithchatter 05:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I've updated the www.OurMoneyToo.org website. It took us a few hours to put together a press release. Basically, the Treasury Department has been denied an easy win, but the American Council of the Blind hasn't yet succeeded in getting the BEP to commit to adding tactile features such as size changes or epoxy bumps (http://www.OurMoneyToo.org/epoxy.php). David (talk) 18:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)